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A couple headboard questions?

Started by justallan1, January 30, 2014, 02:55:12 PM

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justallan1

I'm thinking of making a headboard/footboard out of the cedar/juniper (cediper ;D) that I cut and am wondering what's the strongest joint between the headboard and legs? I have a 1-1/2" tenon cutter I am thinking to use in a couple spots on each end of the headboard and use a mortising bit on the legs and lag screws coming from the outside, covered with plugs. Will that be sufficient?
The other thing is asking for your opinion on mixing wood species. I'm trying to picture how a headboard would look with the plank part of it cedar and the legs pine. I'm going to leave the cedar live edge and was thinking of using about 10" pine logs that would be squared off at the bottoms to about 8", letting the taper of the logs lose the square as it went up. I have the logs for the legs seasoned in either, but am looking for opinions. Thanks in advance.
Allan
The planks on the right is what I'm planning to use for the headboard/footboard.


 

warren46

Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

justallan1

Thanks Warren.
There were some parts on that site that I may go back to.

Allan

WDH

I would think that mortise and tenon would be the way to go.  A peg in a contrasting wood like walnut would highlight the joint. 
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m wood

What kind of 1 1/2 tenon cutter is it?  Like WDH said, that could be the strong point.  I do that and lag it in from the far side and 1 1/2 peg it.  Looks like the tenon protrudes all the way thru.  Contrasting species always turns out nice IMO.  I'd like to see the posts when you get there, rough sawn square to natural round with the taper sounds interesting.  I have also done cross cabling under the whole frame on larger beds to ensure getting any wiggle out.  Can't wait to see your progress
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SwampDonkey

There are also different approaches to headboards/footboards. For instance are they to be attached to a steel rain system that has casters under it. Or stretchers with cross members to hold the box spring and mattress. I did the second one and used metal slip joints with the stretchers. Built it 20 years ago, still holds up, queen sized. If your going to attached to a rail system, be sure to line up the posts with the rail brackets.  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

justallan1

I just bought a Lumberjack tenon cutter used for rustic furniture and railings. It leaves a rounded bottom edge, but I can just take that out with a chisel. Would square mortise joints be any stronger? I have a vertical milling machine that I can cut square pockets with real easy, or do you think that would just be overkill?
I'm still trying to decide on which way to go with the rails. I'd like to use wood for the looks if possible, but am wondering if metal would be stronger with less bulk sticking out? I do like the idea of cross cabling and think it would add bunches of strength to it.
I'm just trying to make this thing solid as a rock.
Thanks for all the help.

Allan

SwampDonkey

They don't need to be square. If you read Steve Miller's book on chair making, a lot of the furniture is made with dowels and rounded tenon joints these days.

Personally, I use a drill press and a mortising attachment. You can make a rounded joint with a router and be good to go, :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

I use the drill press and mortising attachment as well. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

justallan1

Thanks guys.
I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. ;D
Just an oddball observation. I got out a piece of the cedar to see what I needed to smooth it out and used a palm sander on it and it sure seems the white wood is harder than the red. I would have thought it would be the opposite of that, but o-well. The planks don't fit through my planer so I'm figuring to use a portable belt sander then a palm sander.
Have a great day.

Allan

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: justallan1 on February 01, 2014, 12:07:53 AM
I just bought a Lumberjack tenon cutter used for rustic furniture and railings. It leaves a rounded bottom edge, but I can just take that out with a chisel. Would square mortise joints be any stronger? I have a vertical milling machine that I can cut square pockets with real easy, or do you think that would just be overkill?
I'm still trying to decide on which way to go with the rails. I'd like to use wood for the looks if possible, but am wondering if metal would be stronger with less bulk sticking out? I do like the idea of cross cabling and think it would add bunches of strength to it.
I'm just trying to make this thing solid as a rock.
Thanks for all the help.

Allan
A bed should be made with disassembly and reassembly by future owners in mind.  So it will last generations instead of failing for difficulty of assembly or loss of parts that are hard to replace. On our cherry pencil post bed I used hickory slats resting on runners inside the rails, with a full platform of 3/4" plywood on top of the slats. Finished the slats and plywood with garnet shellac.   Rock solid it is. 
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SwampDonkey

Really don't even need the plywood, just the slats. I built a cherry queen size 20 years ago and the hard maple stretchers attach in seconds with steel bed slip joints. I guarantee them maple stretchers won't bow in either direction, so the mattress and box spring won't fall through to the floor. That image just makes me laugh. Oh the evil thoughts. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

justallan1

So what would you all recommend for the rails, wood or metal, and what kind of attachments?
I did get a chance to un-sticker the planks last night and they look great, and they're one heck of a lot easier to move around now. :D
After looking at the small pine logs for the legs, I'm really starting to second guess that idea. They are bluing quite a bit and I'm trying to figure if it won't be too much of a contrast, but plan to saw a couple anyway just to stand up next to the plank and see. I checked and do have enough cedar dried if I decide against the pine.

Allan

SwampDonkey

You'll want a beefy bed post if your using pine with stretchers. I have experience with hard pine and 2" posts. As kids we destroyed a set of twin beds made of red pine. 'Nuff said. :D ;D They would work if attached to a steel rail frame, but not so great with stretchers. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

I second the suggestion for the need to be able to disassemble the headboard and footboard from the rails.  If you use wooden rails, you can attach using bed bolts or either bed rail brackets. 

http://www.rockler.com/3-8-diameter-bed-bolt?sli_sid=v9100&gclid=CI-fvNj9r7wCFUFo7AodH1IADA
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Dodgy Loner

Quote from: warren46 on January 30, 2014, 05:24:36 PM
Do a Google search on Bed Bolts.

Try this link. http://www.horton-brasses.com/store/bedhardware/bedboltsbed

Warren

I used the Horton bed bolts on my white oak bed with great success. They result in a rock-solid connection between the rails and headboard and footboard.



Here you can see the small mortice that the nut fits into:


I covered the holes with these, but you could probably come up with something more appropriate for a more naturalistic bed.



"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

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justallan1

Nice work, Dodgy.
Something I just thought of, is the cedar I have in the pictures strong enough to use for rails?

Allan

Dodgy Loner

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

justallan1

Just checked it and dried it's 1" and 2".
If I were to use wood rails I think I'd mortise them into the leg and use the Horton bed bolts like you did, but am worried about tear out.
You all will have to forgive me, but I'm just not smart enough to make one thing and stick with it. :D I see something new and have to try it. ;D

Allan

SwampDonkey

Well, all you will loose is your pride if it fails. Then grab a sturdier plank next time and try that. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

justallan1

SwampDonkey, if only I knew how to spell that sound when giving a raspberry. :D
I'll think on it some more, look at more pictures and see what I can think up next.

Allan

justallan1

Okay, I'm peeling and cleaning up the planks I have and have pockets from branches and what not, do I clean out all of the bark or sand them out smooth and make sure they get coated well. What's the general opinions? I half considered pressure washing them.

Allan


 

Dodgy Loner

I'd probably get what's easy to get and leave the rest alone. :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

justallan1

Thanks. I was figuring about the same and just making sure it gets coated real well.

Allan

justallan1

 

  

 
I think I've just about got one of the planks done for now and will save the final couple sandings for when stuff is closer to being ready to put together. As for the bigger spots of ingrown bark I pretty much just cut them out and somewhat feathered the edges and am happy with the look. Without the bark it lets you see more of the grain/figure. Providing there's no major wrecks on the ranch, I should have the second one done tomorrow.

Allan

justallan1

Well, I finally got the time to work on the foot board yesterday and am pretty happy that it was a lot easier to do that the first.
I used a plank that is narrower than the headboard and will have another set of planks to make another the same or will grab the wider one for this footboard.
I did get a chance to saw a couple small logs for legs and am figuring making them 2-1/2' for the foot board and 3-1/2' for the headboard, does that sound about right.
Allan


 

justallan1

I'm slowly getting the parts made for this thing.
Today I got two sets of legs sawn so if I ever decide to make another I'll have all the parts already.
I had to do some trading with a co-worker for some old ugly logs to get what I wanted and he got a couple of my wider slabs and all of the thin pieces shown here. I like how these look and know he'll have enough to keep himself busy for a good while, so everyone is happy.
Allan


 

hardtailjohn

That's some pretty wood Allan!!!
I'm so far behind, I think I'm ahead!

Magicman

You are making some wonderful decisions on your project.  It will be a treasure.   :)
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