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cummins 6bt pump

Started by smwwoody, January 29, 2014, 06:54:42 PM

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smwwoody

Hi All

Some of you may remember I put a new 6bt long block in my skidder last March.  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,64871.msg967802.html#msg967802  I put on a new turbo and new injectors.  The pump had just been to the pump shop a few months before the old motor died.  the new motor is doing great except the way it starts in the cold weather.  it has to crank way more than the 6bt s in my feller buncher and my loader.  i think it may have something to do with the pump location.  on these motors you can rotate the pump for a little bit of timing adjustment.  when i installed the pump on the new motor i locked it down in the middle of the adjustment.  does anyone have any idea where to set it at?

Thanks

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

Southside

Sorry Woody, can't help you with that one, and I have not met up with the guy down the road yet, will let you know when I do.  I read your motor post, what is the steel "box" for lack of a better term on the roof of these 170's?  It sets behind where the seat is but on the outside of the roof. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Southside

From my nephew who plays with 12 valve cummins a lot.  "Timing should be set between 12.5 and 13.5, it can be advanced to 16 for more power though.  On the bottom right hand side of the pump is a 15/16" plug, remove the plug - there will be oil behind it - and you can see the tab with the numbers on it.  Google p7100 timing as there are good videos on it." 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

JakeG

Snap-on makes a Timing kit for the 6bt. I always use it when setting the timing. Most engines are set below 13.5*. Depending on the application, the strength of the head bolts/studs, you can turn it up to 20* or more. That'll produce harder starts and less low end power, but a cooler running, higher HP engine.

Question though, which injection pump do you have?
$5.00 fine for whinin'

JakeG

Definitely google it and look it up. Having the timing kit/tool is key for accurate timing on this one. The timing pins are guestimate timing settings.
$5.00 fine for whinin'

mrector

A couple queshtions.. is it a VE rotary pump or the inline pump? (P7100).

If it is rotary you can loosen the 3 pump mount bolts and rotate pump towards engine for increased timing. All the way against the intake would net you roughly 17 degrees timing. So just rotate it to almost against intake for around 16 degrees,  this is the best timing to set at.

If it is inline then the timing process is much more invloved and someone with the tools and experience should do it. I can and have those tools, but didn't notice where your located.

Another easy trick is to bump up idle to around 1000 rpms 950 is desired for unloaded idle. Also check and change fuel filter. We had one 6bt inline pump motor that just wouldn't start easy without your foot slightly on the pedal/throttle, when we djd this it always came to life easily.

Mikey
Woodmizer LT35HD25 brand new!
Stihl 044 and my favorite: ms260 pro
Homemade logging arch
Homemade hitch log picker-upper
DanG Deadheader log loading trailer.

smwwoody

It is a ve pump filters are new.  I am not looking for any more power it has more than enough. I just want to get it starting easyer and get rid of some smoke
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

kiko

To achieve correct timing on the VE pump the pump must be timed with a special dial indicator that installs in a plug at the rear of the pump in the middle of the injection delivery valves. This should be done with pump removed from engine. There is a small bolt toward the front of the engine that has a removable spacer. After removing spacer tighten bolt and put will stay on time . Time engine with plug below injection pump and install pump, snug shaft nut and loosen lock bolt and reinstall spacer. Come back and tighten shaft nut good. You may want to remove pump and take it to a pump shop to be timed.  Any other way is just hit and miss. White smoke would indicate retarded timing and black would indicate high timing if the smoke is because of a timing issue.

smwwoody

Kiko

That is not the timing adjustment I was asking about.  the one i was talking about is the rotation of the pump on the slotted mounting holes.  this one has to be done with the pump mounted on the engine.  the internal timeing on the pump should have been done at cummins when they remaned  the pump.  I am 90% sure it is a timeing issue.  it is a new long block with new injectors and turbo from cummins.  filters are also new.

My thinking agrees with you on the smoke but everything I am reading says that the black smoke is a result of the timeing being too retarded and i need to advance the timeing   ie rotate the pump closer to the valve cover.
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

mrector

White smoke, popping from exhaust and general bad idle is a result from retarded timing. Loosen the bolts holding injection pump to timing cover and rotate towards intake. This should clear it up. Do a little at a time if your skiddish. The end result will be better starting, more power(not in a bad way) , and cooler exhaust temps. Anymore fueling and timing can compromise head gasket.
Mikey
Woodmizer LT35HD25 brand new!
Stihl 044 and my favorite: ms260 pro
Homemade logging arch
Homemade hitch log picker-upper
DanG Deadheader log loading trailer.

kiko

If the engine is timed as i stated, turning the pump to fine tune the timing is not nessessary as the timing will be dead on.
Me personally I don't like to guess at engine timing. However if you can get it run proper with out removing the pump it would definatly be quicker than the process. I think I can dig out the tool, have not used it in years, and loan with the instructions . let me know.

smwwoody

Kiko

I have done a lot of reading on the timing adjustment of these pumps.  now i see that the slotted holes in the pump mount are not really for timing  adjustment they are just for taking up the backlash in the pump drive gear.  now that i know what is going on I want to set the timing the right way.  can I use your tool and instructions?

Thanks

Woody
Full time Mill Manager
Cleereman head rig
Cooper Scragg
McDonugh gang saw
McDonugh edger
McDonugh resaw
TS end trim
Pendu slab recovery system
KJ4WXC

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