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New Hud-son HFE 21, questions, comments, and pics

Started by Verticaltrx, January 28, 2014, 01:53:15 PM

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Verticaltrx

At the beginning of the year I purchased a Hud-son HFE 21 mill as an upgrade from using a 24" Alaskan Chainsaw mill (and I must say it has been quite an upgrade). I've sawed about 600bf of white pine so far for various building projects around the farm and overall I'm impressed with the little mill. My biggest problem has been finding the time to go use it.  :D

As it was initially setup (this is the completely stock setup with two track sections):


As it is setup now, I made another 7' of track to allow me to saw 16' logs:


Sawing some bigger logs:



This last pic will bring me to my first question:

OFFSITE PHOTOS ARE NOT ALLOWED. PHOTOS MUST BE IN YOUR FORESTRY FORUM GALLERY.

This has happened twice now, where the teeth gum up and it completely stops cutting. I'm not sure if it's from the blade being dull or from hitting a sap pocket, but both times happened after cutting about 300bf. I'm running windshield washer fluid with a fair amount of dish detergent in it for lube, but maybe I'm not running it at a fast enough rate. Initially I thought the blade just got dull so I took it off and swapped on a new one, but I might clean the two blades real well and try them again.

Second question, I'm occasionally getting wavy lumber, despite running the recommenced tension and not feeding the saw too fast. I know there are many reason for this, but my guess is it is operator related? From my research others with this mill seem happy with its accuracy. Could this problem be related to the aforementioned one? Maybe the teeth are gumming up a little more than I think?

Thanks for any input and advice. I have more pics and can answer any questions about the mill if there is interest.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
For pics, check on the primer on how to post them in "Behind The Forum" found on the "Home" page (first thread).
If they are in your computer in .jpg format, and you have set up your own gallery in your profile, you are all set to click on the blue highlighted bar below this posting window that says "Click here to add Photos to post".

Any problem, give a shout and we'll help you over the hump. Clicking "Preview" before posting will show what your post will look like.

Welcome. look forward to seeing your pics.

While in your profile, fill out some location info in your bio.  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

21incher

Welcome to the forum. I also purchased a HFE-21 this summer. I have only cut about 2000 bf with it but it was maple, ash, & walnut. I noticed that the blades get a buildup of resin that fills in the set area when cutting ash and have to be changed quite often as they would start to smoke. I think it was because the logs were cut at the end of summer and must have had a lot of sap in them. It was not a problem for the maple and walnut. I also use windshield washer fluid and dish soap for lube. As for the wavy cuts I also had that problem. In my case it turned out that the nut you torque to adjust the blade tension had galled to the bolt for some reason and I was not getting the proper tension on the blade. I found this out when I went to release the blade tension at the end of the day and the nut would not back off. I went to Tractor supply and got a grade 8 nut and bolt and lubed it with dry graphite spray and it seemed to straighten out the issue. I must say that the original tracks that came with it were bowed some so you may also want to stretch a string the length of your track and make sure that is perfectly flat. Another issue I ran into is the cuts tapering caused by the winch dropping by it self during a cut so now I always keep 1 hand on the winch handle while cutting to make sure it doesn't move. It is a great sawmill for the money you pay. You may also want to contact Hudson for some technical support.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Verticaltrx

Thanks for the replies and welcomes.

Pics should be fixed, didn't know that I had to use the album.


Quote from: 21incher on January 28, 2014, 02:51:48 PM
Welcome to the forum. I also purchased a HFE-21 this summer....

I'll look into the tension, I might not be putting enough on it. With my winch I've found that if I stop while cranking up rather than down it will hold. The trouble is getting a 'click' right on the mark you need, but I've found if I go up past the mark, down, then up one click it will be right on and locked. My tracks were the welded ones and seemed to be pretty straight. I layed it on 6x6's and it lays flat along them. Eventually I might build a new bed/trailer for it.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

thecfarm

Verticaltrx,welcome to the forum. I saw white pine and all is well here. I have a manual mill and I crank mine up to the mark, Much eaiser.
I don't want to tell you to use diesel fuel for lube,that is a big debate here. I use half bar and chain and diesel.Get a cheapy spray bottle and spray just a LITTLE,not even enough to run off and try that on each cut or maybe every second,third. might do it. If it don't help,than stop using it.Maybe a using both window washer and the diesel might do it.What you are putting your logs on,Are they a little higher than your mill? The logs roll on easier if just a little higher.Have fun sawing.it's fun.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Verticaltrx

Quote from: thecfarm on January 28, 2014, 05:06:18 PM
Verticaltrx,welcome to the forum. I saw white pine and all is well here. I have a manual mill and I crank mine up to the mark, Much eaiser.
I don't want to tell you to use diesel fuel for lube,that is a big debate here. I use half bar and chain and diesel.Get a cheapy spray bottle and spray just a LITTLE,not even enough to run off and try that on each cut or maybe every second,third. might do it. If it don't help,than stop using it.Maybe a using both window washer and the diesel might do it.What you are putting your logs on,Are they a little higher than your mill? The logs roll on easier if just a little higher.Have fun sawing.it's fun.

I'm currently setting the logs on 6x6's with a 2x nailed on top, this puts them right at the level of the mill bed, so far they have been fairly easy to roll on. My biggest issue is rolling them on the bed to make the second and third cuts. The bed on this mill is narrow which doesn't give much room to work.

As for the blade lube, I agree something with diesel in it would probably cut the sap better. However, Hud-son strongly discourages from using any petroleum based product in the blade lube as it will make it too slippery and throw the band. I guess they must use a different band wheel material than other makes, IDK. The two bands I have that are gummed up I'll probably clean with mineral spirits, lacquer thinner or something similar.

Thanks for everyone's input so far
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

thecfarm

Forget the diesel than. I forgot,Magicman uses cascade,the dish washing type so it does not bubble. I forgot how many "gugs"  ;D  he uses per gallon. But he's in a warmer climate,except for this week. He should be along to see this.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

21incher

I always crank the winch down past the mark and then back up to lock it. When the mill was new it worked great, but after a couple of days sawing it started dropping. It may be sawdust gets in the mechanism. I bought a torque wrench and set it in the middle of the recommended torque and leave it with the mill because I found a new blade stretches after about 1/2 hour of use and must be re-torqued also make sure the thrust bearing is lubed. When I built my trailer I placed removable uprights to help keep the cant on the mill when turning it. If you do a search for HFE-21 I have pic's.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Verticaltrx

Quote from: 21incher on January 28, 2014, 06:28:26 PM
I always crank the winch down past the mark and then back up to lock it. When the mill was new it worked great, but after a couple of days sawing it started dropping. It may be sawdust gets in the mechanism. I bought a torque wrench and set it in the middle of the recommended torque and leave it with the mill because I found a new blade stretches after about 1/2 hour of use and must be re-torqued also make sure the thrust bearing is lubed. When I built my trailer I placed removable uprights to help keep the cant on the mill when turning it. If you do a search for HFE-21 I have pic's.

Interesting on the winch, mine is working ok so far, but I'll keep an eye on it. A good torque wrench is something I need to get. Mine is a pretty crappy one so I may not even be putting the right amount of torque on it anyways. Nice trailer build btw, I read the thread just a few minutes ago. I actually had the same idea of using one of those little 40x48 trailer for parts, I used one a few years ago for a generator trailer. Almost can't buy the axle/springs and wheels for what one of those trailers costs.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Magicman

With a properly aligned sawmill, a dull blade is the chief cause of waves.  Also any buildup on the blade will deflect it and possibly cause waves. 


 
I use about 2 oz (one glug) of liquid Cascade per gallon of water (or windshield wiper fluid in the Winter) to keep my blade clean while sawing.

Of course, this is my solution.  There are as many variations as there are sawyers.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Verticaltrx

Looks like I need to get some better soap. I was using only about 1oz per gallon and it was just some cheap dollar store dish detergent I found in the barn.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

justallan1

Welcome to the forum, Verticletrx.
I have the same mill also and the only time I ended up with a blade looking like that it was -7* with a bunch of wind and I was trying to saw about a 10" log. In my defense I just brought the mill home the night before, it was the day before Christmas and I had to saw something! :D I use WW fluid with pinesol. I've had the mill just over a year and the belt is just now starting to look like I should replace it. I think it's a matter of where you live and the condition of your logs.

Allan

Verticaltrx

Looks like there are a few folks on here with the same mill, which is good to see.

Here are a few more random milling pics:

Couple of the mill head:




Getting logs:


Loading logs:


Logs ready to be milled:



Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Wellmud

I had been sawing some ash and getting build up on the blade, so last week I sawed some more ash and tried the Cascade and it definately made a difference for me.
Woodmizer LT35 manual, Kubota L3130, Farmi 351, Stihl 029 super, 3 Logrite canthooks

thecfarm

You have way too many tractors. I'll take that old Ford off your hands. Hard to tell,1953,Jubliee?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Verticaltrx

Quote from: thecfarm on January 29, 2014, 08:15:46 PM
You have way too many tractors. I'll take that old Ford off your hands. Hard to tell,1953,Jubliee?

lol, I probably do have more than I need, but each has its purpose. The little Kubota and Case skid steer technically belong to my construction business. That is indeed a '53 Jubilee, first tractor I ever bought. I like it in the winter time for chores because it starts easy being a gas tractor. Also gets used on the hay tedder and rake in during haying season.

Wood-Mizer LT15G19

gfadvm

I use Simple Green (purple formula) in my shop to clean pitch off sawblades, router bits, and drum sander paper. It works great and I have been tempted to add some to the water reservoir on my WoodMizer. Anyone done this?

NMFP

Yup, any non corrosive cleaner will work.  Remember though, make sure the jug is full of water before adding soap as if you do it the other way, you will end up with a jug of bubbles.  When you start seeing build up, try turning up the amount of water and soap being added.  Can you adjust the location as to where the water hits the blade?  Is it back too far as if its on the first 3rd of the blade, it will make all the difference in cleaning.

Have a customer that used to send me bands that were really gummed up.  He moved is lubricating nozzle forward and it has almost eliminated the gummed up pitch on the bands.

Magicman

Which is one of the reasons that I use liquid Cascade which is formulated for automatic dishwashers.  It does not foam up and make bubbles.  Add it to the jug first and the incoming water does the mixing.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Verticaltrx

I was looking at the position of the nozzle, I think it is just a little forward of half way(about 1/8" behind the bottom of the gullet) Do I want it right at the bottom of the gullet of the tooth? Right in the center of the tooth?
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

21incher

Quote from: Wellmud on January 29, 2014, 08:09:15 PM
I had been sawing some ash and getting build up on the blade, so last week I sawed some more ash and tried the Cascade and it definately made a difference for me.
I will have to give that a try. The ash seems to be the only wood I have a problem with. If it comes with Magicman's seal of approval it must be good.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

MattJ

A question for 21incher.  I looked at your pics and saw you created some sort of toe board for the HFE21.  How does it work?  Do you set it before the log is on?  I also have the HFE and built a similar frame to your but on a low removable axel that is usually off.  My next step was some sort of combination toe board and log roller.

Thanks

Matt

thecfarm

Reason I was asking about the '53,my Father brought the '54 NAA. I still have it,but it has been parked in a shed for about 10 years.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

21incher

Quote from: MattJ on January 30, 2014, 03:42:32 PM
A question for 21incher.  I looked at your pics and saw you created some sort of toe board for the HFE21.  How does it work?  Do you set it before the log is on?  I also have the HFE and built a similar frame to your but on a low removable axel that is usually off.  My next step was some sort of combination toe board and log roller.

Thanks

Matt
Matt I think that you are talking about the assemblies I built to steady and level the logs so I don't have to use those yellow angle brackets anymore. Here is a pic of one 

 
They twist in between the frame rails after loading the log and I use a impact driver to drive the (2) 3/4" hardened stainless all thread  with points on one end and nuts welded on the other up into the bottom of the log to stabilize it and level it. They are made of 2 pieces of 10 ga steel plasma cut with 2 of the all thread 3" long coupler nuts plug welded between them and a couple of UHMW plates to slide on so they will not damage the paint when it is done. I usually raise the low end of the log up with a 2 x 4 And put a wedge to hold it up then run the threaded rod up to hold it there. They only work with large logs that are 2 big to clamp. One little tip that I used before building these was to replace the double headed nails with 1/4 " x 2" long washer head lag screws that are used for garage door installs and a impact driver which would hold the log in the leveled position fine also.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

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