First potential job with sawmill

[Nick_William]

Well I threw up some cedar for sale on Kijiji and ended up getting someone interested in me sawing up his pine logs for him. The problem is that I have no idea what to be charging for this type of work. I haven't had too much time with the mill yet, but he doesn't want it done until spring so I should have some good practice before then. I have a Woodmizer LT28 manual sawmill with none of the extra bells and whistles on it. He's bringing the logs to me, so I won't be charging him any transport and set up fee. I am using my tractor to load the logs though. Any suggestions as to what would be a fair price to be charging per hour for milling? Also I was curious as to if there would be any problem with pitch from the pine in the spring compared to winter? Thanks

[Chuck White]

Congratulations on nailing your first sawjob!

If you're still in "your" learning stages, at least charge enough so that you are making a little even though you're still learning!

That first job can be a little different, you have to add up all the "what if's", and go from there.

You will need to realize that the rate for sawing is different, depending on your location!

[Magicman]

It is also different based upon your productivity and your lumber quality level. There is nothing wrong with charging by the bf, but since your productivity might be less with a manual sawmill, I would be hesitant to charge hourly rate.  I would tell the customer about your limited experience, not as an excuse, but open communication with the customer is always good.

Make a forum search for "sawing contract" and use something similar.  Charges, responsibilities, and liabilities always need to be agreed upon.  Business is business.

[5quarter]

   Bill by the hour until you get a better idea of your production rate. Let your customer know he's welcome to tail his lumber and save himself a few $$ as things get done quicker that way. since you're stationary (at home), set up a dead deck in front of your mill and deck all his logs at once. sawing goes much faster than winching them up one at a time. Get in lots of practice between now and then, but do not tell him that he's your first actual patient...doesn't really inspire confidence if you know what I mean. Charge as though you've been doing it for several years already. saw for cheap now, you'll be sawing for cheap later. Best of luck and congrats on the first prospective job. keep us posted on your progress.

[SawyerBrown]

Nick, congratulations on your first job!  I remember I almost couldn't sleep the night before, going over and over in my mind the whole process of greet, discuss, contract, mill set-up, etc etc etc.  I'm thrilled for ya!

I'm still charging by bf.  That gives you the flexibility to go as fast as you can or as slow as you need to deliver a quality product.  For the guys that have been doing it for years, that makes it really easy, they are very efficient, and it covers non-sawing time like loading with your tractor.  But my suggestion is to build that time into your bf price, since you have a manual mill and that's just part of the process.  And you won't feel rushed.

The other thing I've done is switched from actual finished bf to theoretical bf using log dimensions before starting.  If it's a good log, they'll actually get slightly more than calculated, and if it's not a good log, then you don't end up eating the expense of sawing it.  This after several cases where the whole center of a log was infested with black carpenter ants and much of it ended up in the scrap pile.

That advice and $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.  :D

[justallan1]

I would say get the time in on your mill between now and then, ask every question in the world here, take a look at how these guys are getting the most out of logs and go practice sawing like that. I would find someone on here near you and ask BF prices and charge exactly that.
Something I'm doing right now is making a cut list for a garden/utility shed and will saw just for that out of "x" number of logs, basically to make myself try to get more out of my logs.

Allan

[RPowers]

Congrats on getting that mill started paying for itself! I'm using an LT28 manual to start a little milling business with myself. Hope you do well and stay as busy as you want to.

RP

[Nick_William]

Thanks for all the info, though it just makes a million more questions pop in my head! Obviously there's a hundred and one different ways to sawmill and do jobs but it's great to hear what works and what doesn't work for people.

Charging by the BF instead of by the hour is a good idea. It will probably take a lot of pressure off doing the milling quick and at the same time of high quality if charged by the hour. I still would have no idea what to charge though. And for example a price for 1x8x12' pine near me was $0.83/BF for rough lumber. I'm reading up on another post from a couple years ago (Price Per Board Foot) and seems like hardwood should be more than softwood, stickering would cost more, small logs would cost more, crooked logs charge by the hour, and seemed like pricing was around $0.25-$0.35/BF. So maybe I should ask for pictures of the trailer of logs before I take any job offer, charge according to above information and go from there?

SawyerBrown - which of the scales do you use for your theoretical BF?

Also while mentioning stickers, what is normal for giving them stickers for stacking (charging for them?) or stacking their lumber at your place while it dries?

And you're definitely right SawyerBrown about the excitement. I've definitely been having a blast with the mill so far and actually getting to use it for job opportunities would be icing on the cake!

[Magicman]

I scale each board at the end of the sawing day.  I expect the customer to handle the lumber/slabs although at times I will tail a heavy slab or some lumber to keep things moving.

Stickers are sawn while edging at no charge.  If that is not enough, then scaled lumber is sawn into stickers.

Note that I do portable sawing only, so my business is not a "one size fits all".  Each sawyer has to develop his own market and find his niche.

[dboyt]

Take a look at those logs before you make a decision.  If they're fair-sized and straight, bd-ft is a good way to go.  If they're small & crooked, consider an hourly rate, and explain that they'll cost more to mill.  I've had some customers who didn't know diameter from circumference when describing a log, and others who have no idea that you can't get a 2x8 out of an 8" diameter "log".  Or it could go the other way, and you find that the logs exceed your capacity, and you have to split them with a chain saw or turn down the job.

I generally charge by the hour and keep track of the output/time for each log, so the customer knows immediately what he is paying.  If there is a lot of variation in quality, I try to mill the best ones first.  If we get to point where the logs are too poor to make it worthwhile, we end the job and the rest goes to firewood.  Never had a complaint.

The most accurate scale I've found (from running a Norwood HD36) is International 1/4" scale, + 15%.

[SawyerBrown]

SawyerBrown - which of the scales do you use for your theoretical BF?

You know, I thought a lot about that before deciding.  "Everybody" uses Doyle, but I went with International 1/4".  Elsewhere here on the FF, there's a thread comparing the two vs actual measured bf cut (I can probably find it if you can't).  Both scales were relatively close when you get into bigger logs, but on smaller logs Int was closer to actual, but Doyle pretty significantly underestimated actual.  So, my thinking was, I won't charge any special fee for smaller logs, I'll just use the Int 1/4" and be done with it.  I didn't want to use Doyle because I'd take a double-hit for handling a small log AND underestimating the final tally.

Since I do mostly smaller "custom" jobs, most customers don't know the difference anyway.  If they do, then I'm ready to defend it using the data mentioned above.

Just as a datapoint, I charge $0.35, plus travel miles ($1.50/mile), plus $50/hr for misc non-sawing time (de-limbing, setting up in difficult location, moving logs, etc)

Again, good luck!