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Final Piece of the Puzzle, Solar Kiln Build !

Started by Andy White, January 16, 2014, 05:59:33 PM

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Andy White

Today starts the final chapter of my sawmilling and drying infrastructure build. All other pieces are in place now. Start with a good foundation!


  

 
Set it up where you want it the first time. Drag all the materials from the drying shed, measure and cut.


  

 
Assembly starts off good, then after four joists installed, THE CROWN GOES DOWN DUMMY!! After realizing the floor will be flipped over for the treated plywood floor, tore apart and made it right! Check for square, and install bottom sheeting.


  

 
Now flip it over and the crowns are all up!


 


 
OK now tomorrow I will install the insulation, and the felt paper, and the plywood floor. All the pine that I had left from the drying shed will disappear on this job. I may have to resort to store bought to finish up. Will post progress tomorrow.     Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Bill Gaiche

Your taking this project pretty serious. Lookin good. bg

Planman1954

Thanks for posting photos! Keep them coming...it'll help a lot of other folks, and inspire them to build one.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Andy White

Bill, or Planman
I got the insulation with the kraft paper vapor barrier on it. Will this work under the felt, or do I need the stuff without the paper?  ??? ??? ???   Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

When working with insulation that has a vapor barrier, that is pretty nice, but many people prefer using a large plastic sheet for the vapor barrier.  (I prefer that approach too, as I cannot count on perfect installation of the insulation in every nook and cranny.  However, you do not want two vapor barriers.  The risk with two is that some moisture might get between them and then it will be trapped between them...it is called the "envelop effect."  So, if you have foil or plastic backed insulation, and will also use poly sheets, then it might be a good idea to make a lot of slits in the insulation's vapor barrier.

Incidentally, the vapor barrier is always on the warm side of the insulation.

When locating a kiln, always ask yourself where the second one would go, in case you do expand production.  You do not want the first one in the wrong place!

I also just paid my quarterly taxes (yesterday) and that reminded me that a lumber dry kiln is a depreciable piece of equipment for tax purposes, just like an oven would be.  If the kiln was inside, there would be little question about it being equipment, but when it is outside, some folks miss that legitimate opportunity to reduce their taxes.  Of course, consult with your tax advisor, etc.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Andy White

Today I started by insulating the floor. I used the type of insulation that looks like it's packed in a plastic bag. No kraft paper moisture barrier. I did not put visqueen or felt paper due to the plastic sack construction. Next was installing the treated plywood decking. Pulled the rest of my sawn lumber from the shed, and framed the 11 foot door opening header, and studs. I have enough 2x6's to do the rafters.  All wall studs are now Lowes specials. Both long walls framed, and working on the west end wall with the 45 degree cuts on the tops. This will allow me to have 104 sq. ft. of clear panels and collector on rafter bottoms. Probably will never have a thousand bd. ft. in it at one time, but I have the footage required. Ladder work sure HURTS!!! Now a few pictures.


  

  

  

 
Will post more when I start the siding.    Andy hurt_smiley smiley_smash
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Bill Gaiche


WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andy White

Spent today framing up the end walls with the 45 degree cuts. >:(
I decided to put an access door on the end facing the drying shed. Later this will help charging the kiln using a set of roller tables. Ordered the fans and timer for moving hot air. Started to sheet the outside walls, and now I know I need to put up the rafters before cutting the tops off. I'm thinking of putting vinyl siding on the outside to match the house, shop, shed, etc. If it is installed over felt paper or bare wood which one is better?? More later, now pictures.



  

  

  

 

The shed in the background will be what will be on the kiln.

 
Didn't notice till now, the kin lines up centered on neighbors house.

Will post more later.     Andy hurt_smiley hurt_smiley
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

ARp

Andy,

The photos are great, really like how you accented the kiln's angles with those of the other structures, super.  Great looking project.

Just PM Bill G about his kiln and me starting mine Friday.  Then ran accross your tread.  Looks Great!!  Glad we got to meet at the Black's and still hope we can get together sometime soon.

Gene, like the idea of the slits in the vapor barrier of the insulation, clean instillation and no enveloping.

Allen

Andy White

Allen,
Good to hear from you, and glad to hear you are starting your kiln project. Maybe we can get together and finish our conversations we started at Austin's house. Good luck and stay safe doing all that work! smiley_smash smiley_smash   Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Planman1954

Put 15#felt over the sheathing before the siding. Insulate the walls with batt insulation with the kraft paper towards the interior, and you will be good to go!
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Andy White

Planman1954
That was the direction I was heading in, but wanted to talk to someone that knows! I will follow those directions.   Thanks,   Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

I would think that a poly vapor barrier would seal the inside of the kiln much better than the paper backing on fiberglass insulation.  A continuous polyethylene vapor barrier would make a tighter seal unless you installed the fiberglass with a perfect fit, and that is not really possible.  I would use fiberglass with no paper backing, like that used in attics, and the cover the whole inside with a continuous sheet of 6 mil polyethylene plastic under the interior plywood sheathing.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Planman1954

I tend to disagree about the poly. Years ago, here in the south with high humidity, folks began to use it inside houses under sheetrock. Mold developed over time, and the entire house had to be stripped of the gypsum board and redone without the poly. So, in my humble 2 cents worth, I would stick with the kraft paper. (no disrespect WDH!)
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

beenthere

Quote from: Planman1954 on January 21, 2014, 08:30:46 AM
I tend to disagree about the poly. Years ago, here in the south with high humidity, folks began to use it inside houses under sheetrock. Mold developed over time, and the entire house had to be stripped of the gypsum board and redone without the poly. So, in my humble 2 cents worth, I would stick with the kraft paper. (no disrespect WDH!)

And that was because of (or most likely) due to the AC making the houses inside cooler, whereas the solar kiln would be warmer inside than outside.
So the vapor barrier WDH suggests makes sense in the solar kiln.    ;D  no disrespect planman1954 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

I am basing my comments on the information provided by Nyle on how to build a kiln chamber. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Planman1954

None taken Beenthere! I love the discussion..
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Indeed, the US Forest Service studied the increase in moisture in a house wall when the vapor barrier was on the cool side, such as in the South in the summer, and found that indeed there was a problem with high MC and the resultant mold.  (Long, run-on sentence.)  The researcher was John Duff and I think he was in Athens, GA.  However, as mentioned, in a solar kiln it will be warmer on the inside all the time, so the poly on the inside is perfect and is much better than paper or foil insulation.  Without a good vapor barrier, the insulation will get wet, lose its properties, the kiln will not get as hot, and drying will be slowed, etc.

Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

chopperdr47

What about radiant insulation on the inside of the batt's. Can't it be used to keep radiant heat in instead of out? If I remember right, there is a perforated and non-perforated depending on vapor barrier requirements.
If ya ain't got what ya need, use what ya got

Planman1954

I believe a foil backed insulation batt is available.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Andy White

A really beautiful day today, put a spark in my building project! After looking at siding and prices for vinyl, I said Board and Batten is good enough for my drying shed, so it will be for the kiln! Put barrier up and installed blocking in end wall for nailing boards every 30" vertically. Looks really good, like it should. I have been talking to ARp , Allen about doors for it. I don't want to try to hang and swing a large door on the 2x4 framing, so I am working on a sliding door setup for this. Maybe can get siding finished while weather is nice, then start on the roof. Now pictures.


  

  

  

  

  

  

 
Did I tell you all how much that ladder hurts me???


 
A few battens, and this end is done!


 
I need to finish soon, because spring is coming!!! 8) 8) 8)
I sure do love working with fresh pine, kinda like it was meant to be!!!
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andy White

After a small detour for a personal project yesterday, and now back to the kiln. Finished putting boards on, and now I will have to fire up the mill to cut some more 4/4 stock for battens and roofing purlins. Thought I had enough, but no. After a lot of thinking and worry about hanging large doors, I have come to a decision. No big doors on the back. Don't want the tractor in the back yard cutting ruts! My manual mill cuts one board at a time, I remove them one at a time, so I will load them in the kiln the same way, using the end door and roller tracks. I only cut for myself, and am not trying to go in the drying business! I may only dry 3 or 4 loads a year. Now todays progress.


 
Shelf for mounting collectors on both ends.


 
Framed up large door opening. Installed top purlin for glazing to attach to. I have a 9'-2" x 12'-0" clear opening for glazing, should be plenty of sun.


  

  

 
Left enough room in the corner to install first sheet of plywood to keep walls plumb. Will post more later.    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Magicman

Me thinks that you are on a mission to finish.    ;)    :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Andy White

Started Friday cutting purlins and battens to finish kiln walls. Made several cuts from a 14"x6"x12' cant I was running an experiment on ,and now think I will have enough to finish the outside. Put purlins up, and started the flat black painting, with Nancy doing the lower half, and me on the ladder up top! that hurts. I had a few pieces of aluminum coil stock left from the siding on the shed, so I broke them up for flashings. This thing will be watertight for sure! Naturally, I will need to get a few more feet of it to finish! Nancy -painted the collectors till it started to rain, so we called it a day. Next weekend should be finishing insulation, and wall sheets, then more painting. Now pictures


  

 
The fourman thinks this is his new house!


  

 
It's already getting warm in here even with cloudy weather!



 
She sure does good work!


  

  

 
At least now the neighbors know what this thing is, cause one asked me if she could grow tomatoe plants until I get lumber in it!!! >:( >:( ???
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Magicman

What lumber species are you planning to dry first??   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Andy White

Lynn,
I've got my mind on some nice fresh Walnut to break it in with, then some Red Oak I have had stored for about 8 months. When the weather gets too hot to saw, I'll turn on the AC and work in the shop 8) 8)  Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Magicman

Quote from: Andy White on March 01, 2014, 02:01:04 PM
Lynn,  I've got my mind on some nice fresh Walnut to break it in with, Andy 
After your first encounter with Walnut, I sorta figured that you would have that in mind.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Planman1954

I'm enjoying the way you are documenting your progress. Keep it up!
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

caveman

Your kiln is coming along well.  I enjoy looking at your pictures and reading about your progress.  Caveman
Caveman

wwsjr

Looking good Andy. Building a solar kiln is one of my "round-to-it" projects. Been on my list for about 8 years I think.
Retired US Army, Full Time Sawyer since 2001. 2013 LT40HD Super with 25HP 3 Phase, Command Control with Accuset2. ED26 WM Edger, Ford 3930 w/FEL, Prentice Log Loader. Stihl 311, 170 & Logrite Canthooks. WM Million BF Club Member.

Gadrock

Thanks for documenting and sharing your desires such as not installing a large rear access door. For you that may make good sense as others decide for themselves their outcome if their project is handled differently.

Myself I am going to make a solar kiln soon as some of this wood that is air drying gets safe to use. Your pics help describe some of the decisions I will make.

David G

carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

Andy White

Work resumed on the kiln today. Started cool, and felt warm inside kiln, so I put thermometers to check.

  

 
Finished flashing roof panels, now let it rain!


 
Insulated rear wall, after running wiring for fans and dehumidifier, then a drain out the back. Installed osb sheets.


 
Installed last two runs of collector panels, overhead work on my knees is like working off a ladder!


  

  

 
Next is to paint above fan plenum, and install fans. Then insulate and panel end walls and front. This thing is getting bigger every day! I'll finish soon, because I'll take one bite at a time, like eating an elephant!!!    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

You are doing a first class job with this kiln.  I bet that it works great given your attention to the details.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

That kiln looks hungry for some Walnut.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

caveman

The kiln looks good.  I hope it works well for you.
Caveman

Andy White

Finally got back to lake today, and walked out to the kiln. Noticed what looked like water drops on the top purlin. Climbed the ladder, and it was sap! Felt really hot, so put up thermometers. Mid 70s outside, and over 120??? inside. This is at 5.30PM. How hot does pine need to get to set pitch? Is this what it is doing??? Have not even finished three walls, or the door! this thing should really cook when it is complete!

  

  

 
I might need a higher thermometer for this!!    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

samandothers

Yep need a bigger thermometer that one is swelling on the end and is gonna blow!

Bill Gaiche

Andy, take a look at this. It will give you a little info. Also the book that Gene has written. bg

http://www.woodbusiness.ca/sawmilling/setting-pitch

Ianab

Regarding setting the pitch.

What happens is that "pitch" is a mix of various oils and resins. If you heat the wood, some of these become liquids. and start running. This messes with any finish you have put on the wood, so it's a bad thing. Now if you heat the wood for a while, the lighter compounds start to evaporate. This is the smell you notice when pine is drying. So you are left with the harder and higher melting point stuff.

Now when the wood is exposed to heat again the remaining compounds wont turn back to liquid unless it goes over the temperature that you fix the pitch at. So if you can set the pitch at say 120F, then basically the wood should be OK unless it's heated to more than that temp.

So once the wood is dry (and the kiln complete) then give it a few cycles at high temp and you will be fine with the pitch.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Jemclimber

Your kiln looks great!!  I really like those meaty saw horses in the background too. They look like timber frame saw horses. Very nice!!
lt15

pineywoods

Oh yeah !! another believer.. In the texas summertime, you will need a cooking thermometer in there  ;D As stated before, we have documented 180 ° Be sure to shut down the dh when it gets that hot. Fire ants tried to build in a corner of mine. Roasted ants anyone ?
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Andy White

After yesterday's walnut detour, it's time to finish the kiln! So much to do, so little time! Installed ledger strip on back wall and collector, then cut and fit header strips for the panel sections. There is a 2' section, then a 2' section the fan will be mounted in. The center section is 4', then another 2' fan panel, then a 2' panel at the other end to seal the plenum. Painted all the tops black, and all surfaces above the frame. The two fan panels will have the fans mounted in them tomorrow, and will be hinged off the rear wall, so I can loosen two screws on front to swing fans down to connect wiring, and to service them in the future. Gotta work fast in there now cause it's HOT in there!! Won't be long now, we'll be cooking walnut!      Andy  8) 8) 8)


  

  

  

  

 
More later.
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

AK Newbie

Andy, very much enjoying your thread just read it from start to finish!  Thank you for taking the time to photo document your journey and share it with us.  Hmmm I wonder how hot a kiln could get up here in the North country?  ;D
LT28, Logosol M7, Husky 385XP, Stihl MS 250, Echo

Bill Gaiche

Welcome Ak,If the sun shines a kiln can get pretty hot no matter where you are if the outside temp is reasonable. bg

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Without lumber in the kiln, temperatures can easily get to over 180 F and melt any plastic around the fans, etc.  So, keep the vents open when empty.

The first VT kiln I designed used doors on the rear.  So did the one in Colorado that i instrumented for my Master's Thesis at CSU40 years ago.  The second VT kiln used doors in the front as there was not enough room in the rear.  We also added doors on the ends.

I am very impressed with the construction of this kiln here.  Superb.

Incidentally, a dry kiln is a piece of equipment, which could have importance on April 15 for someone in the business of drying.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Andy White

Got the fans mounted on the panels, and installed hinges. This works very well, hooked up wiring and didn't even have to get on ladder! Tested circuits and everything works as it should. I bypassed the thermostats on the fans, because I didn't know if they had a high temp shutdown or not. This will not matter, because I am putting them on a timer set to come on at 9.00AM and shut down at 9.00PM. The dehumidifier will come on after the fans shut down, and go off before the fans come on. I have ordered a data logger that will help me determine the exact times for all this, It will plug into my laptop, and print charts for times that I program into it. It will record up to 180° F. , and humidity from 0 to 99% With a load in there, I don't think it will exceed that temp. A little conduit work, a door, and it's cooking time!!! Work has stopped for today, because of thunder storms and high winds with hail! Will be covering up the glazing!! More later.     Andy

  

  

  

  

  

  

 
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

bedway

I see someone uses pocket hole methods, best thing sense sliced bread. ;D

Andy White

Started wiring and mounting timers for the fans and DH. Had some bad storm last night, hail, high winds, lightning, but no damage . The neighbor got a 12" pine across his roof, and crushed a large section of his roof! Had to study a bit on the wiring to get line, and fan load, and DH load sorted out where I only had 2 conductors in each conduit. Hooked temporary power, and all switches and clocks run as they should. Now I need Nancy to dig 65' of trench, and run conduit and wiring to tie in at shop wall.A little work to build and hang the door, and it's time to cook wood!!!! 8) 8) 8)     Andy

  

  

 
Will do a final wrap up of this project when I get the first weeks chart from the data logger.    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

caveman

Your kiln looks really good.  We took another small bite of the elephant this morning.  We finally got the inside of ours sided.  We are still looking for garage sale timers and fans.  I was real impressed with you plenum and fan installation.
Caveman
Caveman

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Bill Gaiche

Looks good. I used that same timer on my fans until I changed to solar. It worked real good. I don t think Nancy will like the ditch job. bg

Andy White

Bill,
She really don't mind too much, because most of the trench will be going thru her lily beds beside the shop. Don't want me near them with a shovel, or a lawn mower!!!  8) 8)    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Darrel

Thanks for all this fine documentation.  I've read quite about how to build a solar kiln, and seeing these pictures brings it all together.  Now I'm thinking that I can do this, where as before I wasn't too sure.  Once again, thanks.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

hookdrvr

Andy,

Great thread and thanks for sharing the pictures of the build. I'm curious though, I noticed you closed the kiln in like an oven, it makes sense that it will heat up really nice. I've also seen pictures of some kilns that only have a wood or plastic seperator to keep the fans seperate and the wood is in the direct sunlight. Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages on the two setups? I'm hoping to build a kiln this year and really like your setup, but wanted to get yours or anyone elses thoughts.

Thanks
Timber King B16
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Leonardo da Vinci

Andy White

hookdrvr,
The collector panels separate the wood from the sun. They are the black panels mounted under the clear panels of the roof. The baffle will hang from the collector panel/fan plenum to top of lumber stack. A dehumidifier will be set in the chamber to run at night to lower moisture before fans start in daylight to circulate heat. Repeat cycle until dry. This is the way I understand it from several members that have been running this type kiln for a while.
If I am wrong or missed any details, someone will get on here to clarify for us.     Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Andy White

Got the new data logger this week, and couldn't wait to try it out! Downloaded program, set up configuration of logger to read every minute, temp and humidity. Logged in the house awhile, then outside, blew into it to see if humidity alarm worked. set the high range at 75% and it worked! This unit will make fan and DH timing so much easier. If you think you might use one of these, PM me and I will share the contact info. I love mine, and can't wait to load the kiln and put it to work! 8) 8)     Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Andy White

Well, I finally finished the last bite 0f my elephant, now for dessert. Got the door built and hung. Works like a vault door, heavy and tight fitting. Decided to build a latch for it, cause I'm tired of going to town for bits and pieces. I used the last of the White Oak scraps from Austin's bench build, and it works better than a store bought latch.


  

  

 
I used the last 17" pine boards for the door panels on outside.


 
Got the Ditch Witch started early today, and she got a trench dug for the conduit to the shop.


 
I hoo0ked up and run final test on complete electrical system, and all is good. Done a little finish work on the dirt from trench, and started logger to get some baseline readings with door closed and fans running.


  

 
Tomorrow will tell how well this thing s going to work. Will post results of  today's logging.  8) 8)  Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

You have built a fine kiln, and you should have a big smile on your face.  I am very interested in the data log readings.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andy White

WDH
Just went out to retrieve the logger that has been logging since 11.40 AM. Door closed and fans running, sunny skies and outside temp 74°F. Can't believe the temps. this thing runs! Now all I have to do is learn how to convert a CSV file to JPEG for downloading to my album. Maybe I can put a program together to help program fan and DH timers, These may need to be adjusted as seasons change???      Working the brain now!     Andy


 
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

pineywoods

Andy, that is one fine piece of workmanship. The temp/humidity numbers pretty closely match my experience. Notice the sharp rise in humidity when the sun goes down. That's the point where you need the dh to come on, otherwise, you may get condensation on the glazing and rain inside. It will be interesting to see how much the numbers change when you load the kiln with a stack of wet lumber.
Nice job...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

WDH

I wonder that those temps humidity are too extreme for green oak.  With pine, that would surely be drying in style.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andy White

Danny,
These readings are in an empty kiln. Maybe they won't be as high with green oak or pine If not, I may have to add a vent?     ??? ??? ???     Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

You are right.  Evaporating water from the wood will lower the temp for sure.  You might need a vent to control the temperature if it starts to get too high.  That is how I do it with my Nyle kiln since I have to keep the temp below about 125 degrees.  Above 130 degrees, the compressor has a high temp shut-off and will not run.  There is an intake vent low on one side and an exhaust vent high on the other end of the opposite side.  Cracking these vents controls the temperature.  However, my chamber does not go through the daily temperature and humidity cycles that a solar kiln does. 

With fast, easy drying species like pine and yellow poplar, you can really hammer it.  With oak, if you hammer it with high temp and low humidity, you can ruin it.  From what I have read, you have to size the oak load to match the solar collector surface area. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Andy White

Kiln is now ready for a load of Red Oak. I will learn to run this thing with lumber that has been air dried since September. Then I will cut a load of Walnut to air dry a while the oak is getting done. The last phase of build is now finished. Painted all walls with rubberized paint. Not too dark.


  

 
Installed grooved bunks to floor joists for stacking lumber.


 
Cut 12' material for baffle attachments, and installed them. If the poly tarp don't hold up, I'll get some canvas.


  

  

 


 
I will roll tarp down to stack, and clamp to top board with spring clamps to keep fans from blowing tarp around.

Last thing Paint Floor with roof sealer. Hope it gets hard. I painted a strip around the floor before putting wall plates down, and it dried good.

 
This has been a very educational build for me and am looking forward to drying some wood. Thanks all for the comments and support.    Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

YellowHammer

You have really done a first class job.  Almost a shame to work the new off it...almost...heck load er up and we can't wait to hear how the first load turns out
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Make sure that your temperature sensor does not "see" a hot surface or the sunlight.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

pineywoods

Andy, here's another handy tip. Use 2 temperature sensors, one measuring the air temp going into the stack, another on the exit side. Air picking up moisture from the stack will be noticeably cooler. When the two temps get close to the same, no more drying is taking place. Cheap and dirty moisture meter that measures the entire stack..Uuhh, I forgot you have a humidity sensor, just put that on the output side of the stack...I'm looking forward to seeing at least 24 hours of loggged data with a stack of wet wood inside....
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Magicman

The meat and potatoes have been fine.  Now I am ready to see some Ice Cream.   smiley_thumbsup smiley_thumbsup
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Darrel

I am very fascinated by this whole process and it is my plan to build a solar kiln in the not to far off  future.  Seeing what you have done will be most helpful when it is my turn to build.  I just have one question.  I understand how rhe air is heated and moves through the lumber stack by use of the fans.  But after the heated air travels through the stack of lumber, where does it go?  I feel like I must have missed something even though I've read this entire thread several times.  Thanks for clearing this up for me.

Darrel
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Planman1954

Galv. metal painted black is secured to the BOTTOM of the rafters, and with the plastic clear panels on the top of the rafters, creates a chute (or plenum). There is about a 6" gap left between the front and back walls and the metal. So the metal is cut about 12" shorter than the length of the bottom of the rafters, and installed roughly in the center. A drape is attached to the bottom of the metal (forward of the lower 6" gap) so that air is blown by the fans into the stack from the top plenum (space between the rafters and the little mini attic at the top), goes through the lumber, and then forced by the drape back up into the bottom of the rafter plenum through the back wall 6" gap. Imagine a big circle going around and around the walls, floor, and ceiling. That is how the air (heated in the chute) circulates.
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 / Solar Dry Kiln /1943 Ford 9n tractor

Andy White

Darrel,
Planman has summed up the scenario pretty well. I have been away a while this last few days, and left the kiln ideling without fans or DH running. It gets about 120° during the day, and down to about 80° at night. I think that is due to the insulation  in the walls. The Oak has not gained or lost moisture in over a week. The Wagoner says it is at 11%. I guess this would be a good storage shed when it is not running.   Andy
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Gadrock

So now it has been quite a while for the trial period to have run its course. How about some update photos and information.

Possible for you to include some newly discovered "do's and don'ts"? Many of us are planning on making the same adventure and are seeking shortcuts to success.

Carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

Darrel

1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Andy White

Gadrock, and Darrel,
I have been extremely busy lately due to some consulting work on a big project for the company I worked for before retirement. The kiln has a load of Red Oak that has air dried for eight months. It has been " idleing"
with no fans or DH unit running. I checked the stack three weeks ago, and the moisture meter showed 13%. Tomorrow, I'll go out and check it again, cause I'm going to load up some Walnut this weekend. When I shut it down last month, the temp stayed above 95° all night, so I turned the DH off. It looks like it will be a "set it and forget it " deal until I can spend more time with it.          Andy :P :P
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Andy White

Well, Now What???
Got back to the lake Thursday, and decided to try the kiln again for the weekend. Programmed the logger , and put it in the kiln and started the fans and DH after resetting timers. Started at 6 AM Friday, and let it go on it's way. Saturday, at 6.00 PM the outside thermometer showed 140°. This morning at 6.00 AM it read 100°. The outside temp was 75°. I don't think the DH unit can be effective at that temperature. It started at midnight, so it was still above 100°at that time. I will pull the logger out and download data Monday morning, and see what it tells me. I may have to convert it to the VT design??? I sure like it this way tho. I need to get this figured out before I start cooking the Walnut load!!

  

  

 
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

Andy White

Went to the kiln early this morning and took all my toys with me. Shut down power, and calibrated the meter to SG of 59 for Red Oak. Took several readings in different spots on different boards, and this is what I found.


  

  

  

  

  

  

 
Next was retrieve data from logger. This is for almost 48 hours.

  

 
I think this load is done. Will unload this week, and get ready for the Walnut. I don't think the DH ever cycled on during this whole cycle, and I never seen any condensate on the panels . I guess as long as it don't sweat, and I get numbers like these, it's working!     Andy 8) 8)
Learning by day, aching by night, but loving every minute of it!! Running HM126 Woodland Mill, Stihl MS290, Homemade Log Arch, JD 5103/FEL and complete woodshop of American Delta tools.

WDH

Looks like you are good to go.  Those numbers look great.  BTW, I use a specific gravity of .62 for red oak, but that is close to your .59   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Darrel

Andy, this is good information, thanks.
Darrel
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

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