Final Piece of the Puzzle, Solar Kiln Build !

[Andy White]

Today starts the final chapter of my sawmilling and drying infrastructure build. All other pieces are in place now. Start with a good foundation!


  

 
Set it up where you want it the first time. Drag all the materials from the drying shed, measure and cut.


  

 
Assembly starts off good, then after four joists installed, THE CROWN GOES DOWN DUMMY!! After realizing the floor will be flipped over for the treated plywood floor, tore apart and made it right! Check for square, and install bottom sheeting.


  

 
Now flip it over and the crowns are all up!


 


 
OK now tomorrow I will install the insulation, and the felt paper, and the plywood floor. All the pine that I had left from the drying shed will disappear on this job. I may have to resort to store bought to finish up. Will post progress tomorrow.     Andy

[Bill Gaiche]

Your taking this project pretty serious. Lookin good. bg

[Planman1954]

Thanks for posting photos! Keep them coming...it'll help a lot of other folks, and inspire them to build one.

[Andy White]

Bill, or Planman
I got the insulation with the kraft paper vapor barrier on it. Will this work under the felt, or do I need the stuff without the paper?  ??? ??? ???   Andy

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

When working with insulation that has a vapor barrier, that is pretty nice, but many people prefer using a large plastic sheet for the vapor barrier.  (I prefer that approach too, as I cannot count on perfect installation of the insulation in every nook and cranny.  However, you do not want two vapor barriers.  The risk with two is that some moisture might get between them and then it will be trapped between them...it is called the "envelop effect."  So, if you have foil or plastic backed insulation, and will also use poly sheets, then it might be a good idea to make a lot of slits in the insulation's vapor barrier.

Incidentally, the vapor barrier is always on the warm side of the insulation.

When locating a kiln, always ask yourself where the second one would go, in case you do expand production.  You do not want the first one in the wrong place!

I also just paid my quarterly taxes (yesterday) and that reminded me that a lumber dry kiln is a depreciable piece of equipment for tax purposes, just like an oven would be.  If the kiln was inside, there would be little question about it being equipment, but when it is outside, some folks miss that legitimate opportunity to reduce their taxes.  Of course, consult with your tax advisor, etc.

[Andy White]

Today I started by insulating the floor. I used the type of insulation that looks like it's packed in a plastic bag. No kraft paper moisture barrier. I did not put visqueen or felt paper due to the plastic sack construction. Next was installing the treated plywood decking. Pulled the rest of my sawn lumber from the shed, and framed the 11 foot door opening header, and studs. I have enough 2x6's to do the rafters.  All wall studs are now Lowes specials. Both long walls framed, and working on the west end wall with the 45 degree cuts on the tops. This will allow me to have 104 sq. ft. of clear panels and collector on rafter bottoms. Probably will never have a thousand bd. ft. in it at one time, but I have the footage required. Ladder work sure HURTS!!! Now a few pictures.


  

  

  

 
Will post more when I start the siding.    Andy

[Bill Gaiche]

Looks good Andy. bg

[WDH]

You are getting there  .

[Andy White]

Spent today framing up the end walls with the 45 degree cuts. >:(
I decided to put an access door on the end facing the drying shed. Later this will help charging the kiln using a set of roller tables. Ordered the fans and timer for moving hot air. Started to sheet the outside walls, and now I know I need to put up the rafters before cutting the tops off. I'm thinking of putting vinyl siding on the outside to match the house, shop, shed, etc. If it is installed over felt paper or bare wood which one is better?? More later, now pictures.



  

  

  

 

The shed in the background will be what will be on the kiln.

 
Didn't notice till now, the kin lines up centered on neighbors house.

Will post more later.     Andy

[ARp]

Andy,

The photos are great, really like how you accented the kiln's angles with those of the other structures, super.  Great looking project.

Just PM Bill G about his kiln and me starting mine Friday.  Then ran accross your tread.  Looks Great!!  Glad we got to meet at the Black's and still hope we can get together sometime soon.

Gene, like the idea of the slits in the vapor barrier of the insulation, clean instillation and no enveloping.

Allen

[Andy White]

Allen,
Good to hear from you, and glad to hear you are starting your kiln project. Maybe we can get together and finish our conversations we started at Austin's house. Good luck and stay safe doing all that work!    Andy

[Planman1954]

Put 15#felt over the sheathing before the siding. Insulate the walls with batt insulation with the kraft paper towards the interior, and you will be good to go!

[Andy White]

Planman1954
That was the direction I was heading in, but wanted to talk to someone that knows! I will follow those directions.   Thanks,   Andy

[WDH]

I would think that a poly vapor barrier would seal the inside of the kiln much better than the paper backing on fiberglass insulation.  A continuous polyethylene vapor barrier would make a tighter seal unless you installed the fiberglass with a perfect fit, and that is not really possible.  I would use fiberglass with no paper backing, like that used in attics, and the cover the whole inside with a continuous sheet of 6 mil polyethylene plastic under the interior plywood sheathing.   

[Planman1954]

I tend to disagree about the poly. Years ago, here in the south with high humidity, folks began to use it inside houses under sheetrock. Mold developed over time, and the entire house had to be stripped of the gypsum board and redone without the poly. So, in my humble 2 cents worth, I would stick with the kraft paper. (no disrespect WDH!)

[beenthere]

I tend to disagree about the poly. Years ago, here in the south with high humidity, folks began to use it inside houses under sheetrock. Mold developed over time, and the entire house had to be stripped of the gypsum board and redone without the poly. So, in my humble 2 cents worth, I would stick with the kraft paper. (no disrespect WDH!)

And that was because of (or most likely) due to the AC making the houses inside cooler, whereas the solar kiln would be warmer inside than outside.
So the vapor barrier WDH suggests makes sense in the solar kiln.    ;D  no disrespect planman1954 

[WDH]

I am basing my comments on the information provided by Nyle on how to build a kiln chamber. 

[Planman1954]

None taken Beenthere! I love the discussion..

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Indeed, the US Forest Service studied the increase in moisture in a house wall when the vapor barrier was on the cool side, such as in the South in the summer, and found that indeed there was a problem with high MC and the resultant mold.  (Long, run-on sentence.)  The researcher was John Duff and I think he was in Athens, GA.  However, as mentioned, in a solar kiln it will be warmer on the inside all the time, so the poly on the inside is perfect and is much better than paper or foil insulation.  Without a good vapor barrier, the insulation will get wet, lose its properties, the kiln will not get as hot, and drying will be slowed, etc.

[chopperdr47]

What about radiant insulation on the inside of the batt's. Can't it be used to keep radiant heat in instead of out? If I remember right, there is a perforated and non-perforated depending on vapor barrier requirements.

[Planman1954]

I believe a foil backed insulation batt is available.

[Andy White]

A really beautiful day today, put a spark in my building project! After looking at siding and prices for vinyl, I said Board and Batten is good enough for my drying shed, so it will be for the kiln! Put barrier up and installed blocking in end wall for nailing boards every 30" vertically. Looks really good, like it should. I have been talking to ARp , Allen about doors for it. I don't want to try to hang and swing a large door on the 2x4 framing, so I am working on a sliding door setup for this. Maybe can get siding finished while weather is nice, then start on the roof. Now pictures.


  

  

  

  

  

  

 
Did I tell you all how much that ladder hurts me???


 
A few battens, and this end is done!


 
I need to finish soon, because spring is coming!!! 8) 8) 8)
I sure do love working with fresh pine, kinda like it was meant to be!!!

[WDH]

Very well done, Andy.

[Andy White]

After a small detour for a personal project yesterday, and now back to the kiln. Finished putting boards on, and now I will have to fire up the mill to cut some more 4/4 stock for battens and roofing purlins. Thought I had enough, but no. After a lot of thinking and worry about hanging large doors, I have come to a decision. No big doors on the back. Don't want the tractor in the back yard cutting ruts! My manual mill cuts one board at a time, I remove them one at a time, so I will load them in the kiln the same way, using the end door and roller tracks. I only cut for myself, and am not trying to go in the drying business! I may only dry 3 or 4 loads a year. Now todays progress.


 
Shelf for mounting collectors on both ends.


 
Framed up large door opening. Installed top purlin for glazing to attach to. I have a 9'-2" x 12'-0" clear opening for glazing, should be plenty of sun.


  

  

 
Left enough room in the corner to install first sheet of plywood to keep walls plumb. Will post more later.    Andy

[Magicman]

Me thinks that you are on a mission to finish.    ;)