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Stihl chainsaw warranty issues

Started by reswire, January 15, 2014, 07:16:09 PM

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reswire

I need to know if anyone can help me with a question about my 660 stihl.  Recently I was using my saw with a 36 inch milling bar, using a Alaskan sawmill jig.  After one pass, the saw stopped running and I took it to my stihl dealer.  The jug was cracked and this is the second time it has happened to me.  The dealer said that the saw was not designed to run on an Alaskan type mill, and that it could not pull a 36 inch bar, therefore the warranty was invalid,  in short, "no repair".   The cost to fix the saw will run me $500 dollars.  Does this sound correct.  Can I void my warranty through using the saw on a saw mill application?  They also told me I couldn't run the saw "sideways" for any length of time.  I find this hard to believe.  Are there any stihl guys who can help me?? 

Thanks, reswire
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

jdhacker

The stihl site says you can run a 36in bar.

DISPLACEMENT    91.6 cc (5.6 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER    5.2 kW (7.0 bhp)
POWERHEAD WEIGHT    7.5 kg (16.5 lbs.)
GUIDE BAR LENGTHS* (Recommended ranges)    40 to 90 cm (16" to 36")
FUEL CAPACITY    825 cc (27.9 oz.)
CHAIN OIL CAPACITY    360 cc (12.2 oz.)
OILOMATIC® CHAIN    3/8" RS3
stihl 044
STIHL ms 291
Homelite XL12 for 31 years
140 husqvarna

JohnG28

http://m.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/professional-saws/ms660/

Says right here on their website that the saw takes up to a 36" guide bar, so I can't see how they can claim that voids the warranty. As for milling with the saw, you should look over the manual and see if it says anything specific about running in such conditions. If there is no mention or warning about extended cuts for long duration, or something to that effect, then I'd say you have a good case for a new saw. I could be wrong, but that would be my take. Hope they take care of it, good luck!
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

celliott

Hmmmm....
Not a Stihl guy, but, a 660 isn't made to run a 36" bar, and not designed to run a mill?BS! Yes milling is hard work for saws, but it's a heavy duty saw and there are ALOT of 660's running CSM's.
One of the advantages of a 2 stroke engine in a chainsaw application is that they can be run in any position, including sideways.
$500 to repair? With Stihl parts and Stihl dealer rates, yeah.... Alot of guys would say do it yourself cheaper, but, if it should be under warranty, then he should take care of it on Stihl's coin.
IMO find a different dealer....
Maybe contact someone higher up in the Stihl chain of command?

Another thought- was the failure by chance your fault, as in, improperly mixed gas, or you adjusted the carb improperly?
Not calling you out or anything, but if the dealer found straight gas in the tank, he might not be willing to do the warranty work.

Cracked jug, I haven't heard of that, maybe casting defect?
I'm thinking out loud here  :D  oh the stuff that comes out of the ole brain..... smiley_dizzy
others will chime in soon I'm sure.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

reswire

Thanks, I have two 660's , one old, one new.  The old saw has been durable and never missed a lick.  I've used it on the mill without problems, just wanted a new saw.  I think I'll check farther up the command chain, I've used the same stihl mix and gas, nothing different in any of my saws.  I keep them in a warm, cozy shed, hug them every night!  I don't know, just a lemon maybe?  This is the second time with this saw though.  I'm beginning to think it may be something wrong with the cylinder wall, maybe a rare defect?  I've had nothing but good luck with husky and stihl, never a problem until this saw.  UGGGHHHH!!!
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

JohnG28

This is the 2nd cylinder that cracked? Or something different on the first?
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

SLawyer Dave

If the dealer refuses to budge, even after you show him that the saw is designed to use the 36" bar, (and I don't believe there is any warranty prohibition about use for milling attachments), then I would move up to Stihl USA.  Ask the dealer for a written explanation for why he is not accepting the warranty work.  (He may refuse, but this is something else to bring up with Stihl USA).  The dealer is under contract to provide warranty work, and if he is not doing so, that should get his dealer rep and company warranty people a might upset.  It won't make the dealer like you any more....but it should get the work done, (if he wants to keep his dealership).

Hope that helps.  As a very proud "Stihl man", who has never had such problems, I hope it all gets resolved soon.  Please keep us posted on what happens.

Andyshine77

If the cylinder cracked at the base, this was a common issue with the early 066. It was such an issue the later models like yours, have thicker cylinder bases. Even though this has been an ongoing issue, it's pretty rare after they beefed up the base of the cylinder. Having two fail would lead me to believe something is up with the rest of the saw, not the cylinder itself. The case deck may not be machined flat, or the cylinder wasn't torqued down properly, improper alignment somewhere and so on. In any case the saw has issues, you shouldn't have to deal with, and if that saw can't be fixed you should get a new saw. Stihl is normally pretty fair when it comes to dealing with defects.

Now if the cylinder shows signs of overheating, lean tuning or bad fuel mix, you would bear responsibility for the repairs.
Andre.

Saw Dr.

You need to go around that dealer.  So long as it is within the warranty period, Stihl will almost certainly take care of you.  If you run aground, send me a PM and I'll make a call or two.  I'm wondering if the cylinder was torqued properly.  If not, the dealer will be eating the repair, not Stihl.  That may be the cause for the hard-line rejection at the dealer.  If they don't even own a torque wrench, that will be an easy one to ferret out.

Either way, if a 660 is not for milling use, what exactly is it for?  Ridiculous.  Milling is one of the primary reasons to manufacture such a saw in the first place.
I don't try to explain to others why I play with chainsaws.  For those who already know, no explanation is needed.  For those who do not, no explanation is POSSIBLE!

Super 250

clww

Who is the dealer....Land and Coates?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

JohnG28

Doesn't the Logosol mill recommend a 660 for their mill? ??? Sure Stihl doesn't mind that advertising. I agree on finding another shop.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

jacob j.

Quote from: reswire on January 15, 2014, 07:16:09 PM
They also told me I couldn't run the saw "sideways" for any length of time.  I find this hard to believe.  Are there any stihl guys who can help me??

No more falling of any trees with a 660, unless you install an articulating gear box on one.

Grandedog

     Howdy,
   This has been going on for years, and not by just one manufacturer. There's always some wording about attachments.  I would say that your dealer is correct on whether it's going to be warranted, or not by Stihl. Some of his reasons might not have been right but, I think the final outcome from corporate will be the same.
   The whole question comes down to whether your dealer screwed the pooch (torque) on the repair.
Regards
Gregg
Gregg Grande
Left Coast Supplies LLC
1615B South Main Street  Willits, CA 95490
888-995-7307  Ph 707-602-0141                   Fax 707-602-0134  Cell 707-354-3212
E-Mail  gregg@leftcoastsupplies.com   www.leftcoastsupplies.com

Andyshine77

Quote from: Grandedog on January 16, 2014, 03:28:14 PM
     Howdy,
   This has been going on for years, and not by just one manufacturer. There's always some wording about attachments.  I would say that your dealer is correct on whether it's going to be warranted, or not by Stihl. Some of his reasons might not have been right but, I think the final outcome from corporate will be the same.
   The whole question comes down to whether your dealer screwed the pooch (torque) on the repair.
Regards
Gregg

A warranty is only as good as the company backing it. The problem really comes down to the fact we have too many lawyers writing in a few words here or there that gives everyone an easy out. Wish real life was that simple.  ::)
Andre.

John R

The same failure twice?
Time for Stihl to step up and replace the saw.
John


Sthil MS 361 20" Bar
Sthil MS 260 PRO 16" Bar
Oregon 511 AX Chain Grinder

shootingarts

Just had the jug off my saw. Wasn't thrilled to note the case halves don't match up perfectly on one side. Close enough a gasket takes care of it, I'm running naked counting on sealer now though. May get an air leak there and toast a saw.

If both jugs failed it would seem to be an issue with the saw itself, or possibly the repair job. A lot of shops in the two cycle game consider an air ratchet just right to torque together an engine. Many a ten or fifteen thousand dollar boat engine never sees a torque wrench when it is repaired. Have to wonder if the shop was careless putting on the jug or if the replacement was an early series with the thinner flange?

For future reference I would pull any indications the saw had ran in a mill and not mention milling when toting a saw under warranty in. Most shops won't care, some trying to fling the monkey on the customer's back are looking for any out on warranty work. The saw should hold up milling and have at least the commercial warranty on it. The wording of the warranty may indeed void it if used with a mill or anything else including something that makes no difference. What if you put one of those silly looking firewood measurers on it? That is a nonfactory accessory too. Warranty voided?

A question I haven't seen raised yet, did you buy the saw from this dealer? Shouldn't matter but it can.

Hu

reswire

I e-mailed Stihl and they are going to look into the matter.  I've got a feeling they are going to help me, or at least meet me half way.  I'll let you know what happens later.  Thanks,
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

clww

Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Spike60

Quote from: shootingarts on January 19, 2014, 09:56:49 AM

For future reference I would pull any indications the saw had ran in a mill and not mention milling when toting a saw under warranty in.

So, being honest and up front with the dealer is not as important as the dealer being honest and up front with the customer?
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Jiles

For me, I don't put a lot of value in ANY WARRANTY!! If you read the warranty, it is written to protect the manufacturer not the purchaser!
Too many ways warranty can be denied--like a close friend that bought an Echo CS4000, had a piston/cylinder scored after only 30 minutes of operation! Echo determined it was run without oil?? NOT TRUE, My friend is a certified mechanic and has many years of engine repair, especially two stroke.
Strange that the new replacement piston was smaller then original?? He cleaned the cylinder, installed the slightly smaller piston and has cut many cords of wood with no problems.
Satisfy needs before desires

shootingarts

Quote from: Spike60 on January 20, 2014, 10:00:10 AM
Quote from: shootingarts on January 19, 2014, 09:56:49 AM

For future reference I would pull any indications the saw had ran in a mill and not mention milling when toting a saw under warranty in.

So, being honest and up front with the dealer is not as important as the dealer being honest and up front with the customer?

In sports, in games, and in business when one side is playing fair and the other side isn't the side playing fair is giving the other side an advantage, it isn't a level playing field. Having dealt with many a dealer over the last fifty years and more than a few manufacturers, silly to think they are all upright outstanding citizens.

When I pointed out to a Ford factory rep that what Ford had done to thousands of customers would be a felony if I did it, his reply was that I wasn't Ford, basically they were above the law. A year or so later it turned out Ford wasn't above the law but that's another story.

Most warranties and such are indeed full of loopholes to protect the sellers on all levels. They are trying to get all they can while giving as little as they can. Good business I suppose but it doesn't make for warm relationships with customers, more of an adversarial relationship.

Exceptions to the rule of course. I have ran into good dealers and the occasional good manufacturer. I also had to drive almost four thousand miles to straighten out a deal when a manufacturer got me on the wrong side of the law because his product had a flaw that wasn't obvious, was inside a sealed unit that I had to destroy a machine to find. I had to make good on my mistake in trusting the factory and the factory saw the cheapest thing to do was to cover my losses and accept all machines returned, sixty or eighty or so, it has been awhile.

A reasonable dealer wouldn't claim you can't run a chainsaw sideways. Dealing with someone like that, I'm going to play the game too. Dealing honestly with dishonest people is foolish. Dealing with them before you find they are dishonest can happen. Afterwards if they are the only source for something, cover your butt when dealing with them.

I have competed for many many years. Often in informal situations where the other people made up the rules as they went. That's cool, but then I made them play by the same rules they wanted me to play by! I prefer not to deal with dishonest people. However I have always had a policy of meeting people halfway or more.

Ladies and Gentlemen often consider me of the finest quality. Lowlifes often consider me a bigger lowlife than they are! They are all correct depending on who I am dealing with. You wanna play rough I can play rough. I much prefer playing a gentleman's game.

Hu

Paul_H

A lie is a lie no matter who is involved or who lied first.if one lies because another is a liar,it makes two liars.
Dealing honestly with dishonest folks is not foolish,it's honourable and a matter of conscience.
If given a choice,we'd all deal with the honest but it's not always possible.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

shootingarts

Quote from: Paul_H on January 20, 2014, 01:06:06 PM
A lie is a lie no matter who is involved or who lied first.if one lies because another is a liar,it makes two liars.
Dealing honestly with dishonest folks is not foolish,it's honourable and a matter of conscience.
If given a choice,we'd all deal with the honest but it's not always possible.


Paul,

As I said, I always let the other people make the rules but then we both played by them. Countless examples of my honesty over the years dealing with people that I didn't know or that I knew were honest, even known dishonest people that hadn't been dishonest with me. I always start with the assumption I am dealing with honest and honorable people and treat them as I would wish to be treated. When they prove otherwise, I usually simply don't deal with them. When that isn't possible then I can make their lives a living hell by doing the same thing they are doing better, or just making them think I am when I'm not which is even more entertaining.

There was a time when I just laughed off the spot I was giving the cheaters in sports or business and figured I'd come out fine anyway. I've been screwed over by some of the best now and I'm not so generous.

As I said, I try to meet everyone more than halfway. Very good people think I qualify for sainthood. Someone that filed a BS lawsuit against me called me something foul after I blew him out of the courtroom. I told him coming from such an expert in the area I considered it quite a compliment!

You can tell me you have never lied in your life, one more whopper won't hurt! White lies, little lies, lies to avoiding harming others or causing them pain, all are lies. Once you accept that lying is OK sometimes then it becomes a huge gray area as to which lies are fine and which aren't.

My dad asked me if he was dying. I told him the truth. A lie or lie by evasion would have been easier on me but he deserved the truth.

Judging others is usually frowned on at least as much as lying in the churches I have passed through once or twice. Just a thought.

Hu

Paul_H

The only one I have to judge is myself by my own conscience.What another does is up to him but I have no peace when I lie.
The circumstances or my perspective doesn't change the truth.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Personally,I think Stihl will deal fairly in this matter.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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