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How to find Small Loggers?

Started by Tmac47, January 14, 2014, 11:09:26 AM

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Tmac47

Does anyone know a resource where smaller operations can be found/contacted?

I'm talking 10 acre thinnings and clearcuts.  I probably get 5 people a month asking about it in GA and I never know where to send them.

thecfarm

Other loggers? I have not seen just a skidder since last year.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

LeeB

Follow the yellow brick road?  :D Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Southside

Kids boot section at TSC??   :D   Seriously, do you have a county forester down there?  I would think either a state / county forester or forest ranger would know about all the active loggers in their area.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Tmac47

Quote from: Southside logger on January 14, 2014, 01:36:41 PM
Kids boot section at TSC??   :D   Seriously, do you have a county forester down there?  I would think either a state / county forester or forest ranger would know about all the active loggers in their area.

In my experience and through the grapevine, state foresters tend to be pretty far removed from timber sales (by law) in Georgia.  So, I don't have much hope for that route.

ga jones

If that many people were asking me about it. It would be me! Sounds like a good opertunity to me.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Tmac47

Quote from: ga jones on January 14, 2014, 02:37:58 PM
If that many people were asking me about it. It would be me! Sounds like a good opertunity to me.

They're generally spread out across the state and I already have too much other work that keeps me busy.

However, this is definitely an opportunity, I just need to find the right people to take it on.

ga jones

Find a trustworthy young logger with aspirations of starting his own business and help him along.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Claybraker

Quote from: Tmac47 on January 14, 2014, 02:39:30 PM

However, this is definitely an opportunity, I just need to find the right people to take it on.

Us NIPF's that just want a few acres thinned or harvested are definitely under served. I don't see things going back to chainsaws and pulpwood trucks, but the standard issue logging crew around here is a feller-buncher, 2 grapple skidders and a knuckle boom loader - figure a million dollars minimum invested in equipment, and they need to produce volume.

Does the equipment even exist to make small scale logging profitable in these parts?

ga jones

I see cable skidders for sale in that area on Craigslist all the time. Someone is doing it.lanier equipment has them listed. Delk. Also. i think one man a cable skidder and a chainsaw can still make a living anywhere there's a forest. Low low overhead.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Woodboogah

If you are a good chopper and can take the time to leave behind a clean job there is defiantly work to be had.  I am a one man operation and don't plan to grow and stay plenty busy.  I am sure there are guys in your area.  Ask around.  Remember though a good logger is a busy logger.
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

beenthere

This begs the question and maybe members here can put together a list of minimum equipment and some methods for a person to get started. Certainly with the idea that there would be some profit doing this.
Any thoughts?

I visualize something on the order of what member Bill_M has for equipment. But even then, moving to a small woods area, logging, moving those logs to market, etc. may have its limitations. Just getting wood to a landing for truck loading may work but that involves more.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

ga jones

Here in appalatchen hard wood country all you need is a cable skidder and a chain saw.there are trucks around to haul your wood to the mills .i can't see what would be different there.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

thecfarm

I use to do it with a 40 hp tractor.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ga jones

There are quarry's near by if yor landing needs stone. There are rental stores if you need a dozer to put a skid road in. You can rent the trucks by the hour if you need sorting done. I started out with a 1964 c4 tree farmer and 2 chain saws doing lot clearing for a friend that has an excavating business. Then people saw me stopped in and asked if I would cut some timber around their house no big logger wanted. I Learned how to cable trees over.the more I did the more called. I took small junk jobs like 12 inch scotch pine 2 acre clear cut. That's pulp here. 18 buck a ton. If you don't pay anything for it you can still make money with a cable skidder.blow downs tangled up snarled messes.then 10 acre select cut then 70 acre. now I have 2 skidders and a small picker truck.And I'm part time. Nights and weekends. Days in the winter cause I work second shift winter months.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

ga jones

One thing that's a big determiner of my success is knowing other loggers having them help with markets and methods working on there equipment before I started .learning what to do and what not to do.cutting for them
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

beenthere

Quote from: thecfarm on January 14, 2014, 06:09:41 PM
I use to do it with a 40 hp tractor.

Good point. I started with an 8N Ford, tongs on the 3 ph, a Homelite chainsaw, and a 49 Ford stake truck with a winch to load 8' logs crosswise. Take a load to a mill and they would buy them.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

GATreeGrower

You could look for larger clearcuts within close proximity to the small tract...that would make it more worth his while.   Especially a small tract being thinned in GA

Southside

Are there any small mills in the area that buy logs?  I started selling to one mill that has around a 10 man crew, they will buy from anybody who brings in logs to their specs - the stick scaler knows everybody who brings in wood and can tell you what they do, how big they are and how much they produce.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

WDH

The problem in GA is not the equipment, or the cost of equipment.  The problem is the markets and operational scale.  The large mills need high production loggers.  They want consistent predictable volume as most run with small inventories.  The high production loggers get the priority. When things get tight, and there are quotas, the small guys get cut off in favor of the high volume guys.  Then, they starve. 

Also, to be considered a supplier in most procurement systems, a logger has to have minimum insurance requirements and have master Timber Harvester training that covers all the Best Management Practices.  Many small loggers will choose not to meet these requirements, so they get left out. 

I agree that there is a need.  There could be a solution.  Be it will have to involve the mills.  As the manager of a large wood procurement organization buying 2.5 million tons of wood a year for many years, I understand the complexities.  A small logger moving a couple of loads a day would have to fit into the system, be consistent and predictable, and meet all the same requirements as the loggers moving 20 loads a day.

In the deep South, mechanical felling is a given.  So that means a fellerbuncher.  Also, at least one skidder and one loader.  The skidder needs to pull 6 - 8 loads per day to be profitable because of competition.  That sets the bar.  Most operations with this minimum set up needs at least 3 to 4 days of logging to make it work.  You cannot move this equipment every day for just a load or two.  So, it is a problem of scale. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

ga jones

WDH There are the same types of issues here with pulp. There's only one pulp mill and its 100 miles away. There are large producers that purchase from us little guys and resell to the mill.they have the capability to stock pile. They pay out of there own pocket. That eliminates many of the issues. I'm sure there are operators like that there.with a cable skidder and a chain saw there is virtually no overhead. I guess you would need a picker truck or a landing loader because all your wood down there is trailer loads.where there's a will theres a way.If a large producer can make a buck off of the little guy he will. That's business.if it keeps everybody working and happy,so be it.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

beenthere

Might consider taking inventory of the species, size of logs and some estimate of quality. With that inventory, go to small mills that may just be looking for logs to mill.
Bibbyman's operation comes to mind, and I'd think there would be several if not many small sawmill operators interested in getting logs of known species and size and grade (tie, sawlog, veneer, pallet, etc.).

These small operators can't very well buy logs from the large mills or the large logging operators and penetrate their log flow, as WDH so well described.

Have to somehow connect the dots to marry the landowner, the logger, and the sawmills that are at the low volume end of the scale.

Just seems there might be a way to get this to happen.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Piston

Quote from: beenthere on January 14, 2014, 04:53:10 PM
This begs the question and maybe members here can put together a list of minimum equipment and some methods for a person to get started. Certainly with the idea that there would be some profit doing this.
Any thoughts?

I visualize something on the order of what member Bill_M has for equipment. But even then, moving to a small woods area, logging, moving those logs to market, etc. may have its limitations. Just getting wood to a landing for truck loading may work but that involves more.

I agree, I think he has the perfect setup for small scale logging.  I'd kill for a setup like that, but then again, I only do it for myself so it's tough to justify.  I don't even think I'd get enough money from the logs to pay for the down payment  :D

I'm envious of that setup though.
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Stephen Alford

   I think the answers or at least the potential for solutions is right here in front of us. This Technology.  Its about knowledge that leads to awareness resulting in the optimum approach.  Through Jeff's initiative look at how this reference base has evolved. We may not be there yet but the journey has begun.  :)
logon

Autocar

Ten acres is a good size woodlot in my county and theres always plenty of competition bidding on them.
Bill

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