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Wages

Started by minn firewood cutter, January 13, 2014, 08:09:16 PM

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minn firewood cutter

What is the going rate for a tree cutter using a chainsaw per thousand to cut trees?He has his own saw ? Thanks

CX3

I pay $35 a thousand in big timber. I supply gas and oil.
John 3:16
You Better Believe It!

treeslayer2003

that's good money there, last I payed was 100 a load. [4000ft]
that's also what I charged last time I did any falling for hire......may be i'll raise up some  ;)

treechopper40

when I got paid piece work we got $30 a thousand and $15 a cord for hardwood pulp and $16 a cord for softwood pulp but that was 20 years ago piece work here is a thing of the past its all daily or hourly pay now the piece work was great I loved it you could write your own check every week until u got stuck in some mud hole or steep ground cutting pecker poles then it was a different story but in good ground and decent wood it was nothing to make 12-15 hundred a week easy ahhh the good old days
1979 c5d treefarmer 1966 c5b treefarmer prentice g model loader 2 6100 dolmars a 6400 dolmar and a 7910 dolmar 2012 ford f 250 4x4 with a service body and 2 golden retreivers

PAFaller

Depends on the ground, the timber, and the cutter. Id pay a good cutter, you know that kind of guy that does the job neatly, trims up knots, and isnt afraid to wedge a few if it makes the skidding easier, a good per thousand rate. Send a guy out thats a whacko or wants to be the next Axe Man star and Id pay him to go away and lose my phone number. Guessing theres a few guys on here that have met guys like that before.
It ain't easy...

clww

I get $25/thousand, their saw, gas, and oil.
I get $35/thousand for my saws, gas, and oil on trees that go over 24" DBH.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Dave Shepard

Who's paying the insurance? Employee, sub-contractor?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

BargeMonkey

The what.. huh...?   Lol...

gwilson


gologit

You guys aren't required to carry insurance?  Not even liability?
Semi-retired...life is good.

cutter88

I pay my guy 18 per hour and pay his WSIB
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

treeslayer2003

Quote from: gologit on January 14, 2014, 05:43:51 PM
You guys aren't required to carry insurance?  Not even liability?
i'm not as long as I don't hire non related employees. last time I paid for cutting he was subcontracting.....prolly that's not quite strait arrow.

clww

The company I do sub work for pays my insurance.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

JakeG

How would you adjust your methods of charging if you were in small junky wood with snags left and right?
$5.00 fine for whinin'

coxy



barbender

Quote from: JakeG on January 14, 2014, 10:19:24 PM
How would you adjust your methods of charging if you were in small junky wood with snags left and right?
That's the problem, in MN, it's a rare stand of timber where it would be fair to pay someone on the MBF, most tracts of Northern Hardwoods probably only produce around 20% sawlogs. There are stands of mature pine, but you don't get to cut those every day. You could maybe pay by the cord, but I think our wood is far too variable. You could have someone that is a good Faller, hard working and on the ball, and he could go broke. I think by the hour is the only way that is fair.
Too many irons in the fire

redprospector

Wow!
I can't believe that so many wouldn't carry at the very least a General Liability policy, just for your own protection.
I do quite a few State Forestry jobs here, and am required to have liability insurance or they pretty much can't hire me.
Do you guy's insure your pickup trucks?
Insurance is one of those things that you hate to pay until you need it.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

redprospector

Quote from: barbender on January 15, 2014, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: JakeG on January 14, 2014, 10:19:24 PM
How would you adjust your methods of charging if you were in small junky wood with snags left and right?
That's the problem, in MN, it's a rare stand of timber where it would be fair to pay someone on the MBF, most tracts of Northern Hardwoods probably only produce around 20% sawlogs. There are stands of mature pine, but you don't get to cut those every day. You could maybe pay by the cord, but I think our wood is far too variable. You could have someone that is a good Faller, hard working and on the ball, and he could go broke. I think by the hour is the only way that is fair.

I really don't like working by the hour. Give me piece work of some kind and I'll make the best of it.
I've cut by the thousand bd. ft., by the tree, by the count, by the ton, and even by the acre, and if the employer is half way fair I can come out ahead of working by the hour.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

CCC4

On Gubment thinning my boss is required to carry $1,000,000 insurance policy.

PAFaller

I could be crazy, or maybe its just PA, but even as a subcontractor I have to have liability insurance. Most guys require it be as much as or more than their companies liability. Only company I work with that has more than mine is a big chipping and landclearing outfit that I hand fall oversize trees for, I forget what they have for insurance but its more than my 1 million dollar policy.
It ain't easy...

BargeMonkey

 Nyc watershed jobs require above 2mil liability now on certain size bids. Between  the Comp and liabiltity insurance I refuse to hire 99% of people who come to me looking for work, why do I wanna train someone, deal with the drama and barely make anything. Nope. I park my equipment and collect a check from someone else for 1/2 the month with paid medical like a smart person.

barbender

Most any government land will require general liability just to operate, and worker's comp for any employee's. If you are trying to put a faller in the woods and call them a sub because they are using their own chainsaw, good luck. You may even get it past the governing authorities but if that guy gets hurt you won't get it past the courts, there will be hospitals and lawyers coming after you that want bills paid. Cover your tail. I know a local fellow that was led to believe by an insurance agent that he had adequate comp coverage because all of his help was family. Well, one of the grandsons was seriously injured out in the woods, and the insurance wouldn't cover it. The policy wasn't what the agent led him to believe. The hospital just wanted the $150,000 bill paid, they couldn't care less who is responsible, just who they can get the money from. Well, my friend happened to have a nephew that is a top notch and fairly well known attorney, he hired him and the insurance company suddenly began to see their own responsibility ::) I guess they weren't expecting a couple of rural elderly farmer loggers to have access to a prominent attorney from the Metro area. The whole ordeal ended up costing them about $10,000, but I have no doubt they would have lost everything if they wouldn't have had the attorney nephew. The moral of the story- look out for yourself, no one else is going to.
Too many irons in the fire

OntarioAl

Folks
Up here in Ontario the land owner is ultimately responsible if a  worker is injured while logging on the said property.
His/Her protection is a valid clearance from the Workers Compensation Board stating that the Contractor is in good standing (covered). You can go on line with the Contractors WBC number and check for your own protection.
Do most land owners do? Unfortunately the answer is No! Most land owners view the sale of standing timber as "cash cow" that is until the tax man finds out (heh heh).
Oh in Ontario the WBC has a monopoly on coverage they and only they are allowed to issue coverage for employees. Your payment (estimated in advance) is based on your accident track record (potential surcharges), a group rate (logging used to be around 13%)  times the estimated wages earned on the job (sum of all employee wages). The contractor has the option as the employer to opt out and use private disability insurance.
From my perspective I would never allow any logging contractor on my lands without WCB coverage and liability insurance the potential down side can be expensive.
My 2 cents (oh we don't have pennies any more) then  that's my nickel.
Al
Al Raman

redprospector

You don't have pennies anymore?
How do you pay for something that cost 27 cents?
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

snowstorm

i dont know about what they do in other states. but in maine they are cracking down on sub contractors. every year i have to fill out a form for the state. independent contractor status because i plow roads for the town. it always was a 1 page form with a couple questions. now its 7 pages with a few trick questions. last spring was when the new form started. 

ehp

Welcome to my world , where I log you have to have insurance , I have $5,000,000 , You have to have fire insurance in case the skidder or skid steer burns up and sets the bush on fire , I have $2,000,000  for that . You have to be certified to cut or run a chainsaw , you have to be certified to drive a skidder , Every tree you cut has to be released by the by-law and if you get caught cutting trees not released its a big fine . I do all the falling timber and skidding myself and most of the bucking up on the landing but if I'm behind I have a guy that comes and he only bucks up the trees , I mark where I want them cut .  I pay him $20/1000 , his saws , his  fuel and oil but he makes at least $100 an hour or better so I think thats pretty good

luvmexfood

Quote from: BargeMonkey on January 15, 2014, 09:10:49 PM
Nyc watershed jobs require above 2mil liability now on certain size bids. Between  the Comp and liabiltity insurance I refuse to hire 99% of people who come to me looking for work, why do I wanna train someone, deal with the drama and barely make anything. Nope. I park my equipment and collect a check from someone else for 1/2 the month with paid medical like a smart person.

Barge Monkey. How far away from NYC does this insurance requirement go. By watershed do you mean like a creek 75 miles from the city that feeds a river or something?
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

BargeMonkey

 Im talking about "NYC-DEP"  land. I live right at the edge of the watershed for NYC. They own about 30% of the land in my town, and ALOT more the further south you get. All "waterways" and certain areas are protected by DEC and state agencys, some more than others. Alot of guys cry about working for NYC, but they have been ok with me so far. The requirements always change, and its a little different region to region but its getting harder for the little guy all the time. When you start getting to the southern part of the state it gets horrible, certain town have laws on logging or land clearing, forget cutting a tree in the town of Woodstock. I buy 10 private lots for every 1-2 state or city lots, but being in the watershed I can get paid by them for doing BMP's, we share skidder bridges, its not a bad program.

MUDDY

$60/thousand
$18/cord for the pulpwood
Got to take the top down to 4". The top can not exceed 36" in height. My saw and gas. Boss provides b and c oil.

JamesE. PikeLogging

$30/ 1000
$10/cord for pulp & firewood

run my fathers skidder and have my own saws we go 50/50 on fuel, saw gas, bc oil, etc.

Kemper

I provide 100% and pay a base salary of $125 a day plus $50 bonus for every additional load. It doesn't matter if it's log, scragg or pulp. I usually put close to 5,000 feet or 29 tons on each load.

Quote from: JamesE. PikeLogging on January 17, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
$30/ 1000
$10/cord for pulp & firewood

run my fathers skidder and have my own saws we go 50/50 on fuel, saw gas, bc oil, etc.

gwilson

The South is a different world from you Canadian guys and even y'all from the Northern US. I don't know any one man crews in my area and its almost 100% mechanized except in the mountains. Insurance coverage usually varies highly between crews  and how established they are but i do know that everyone is supposed to have workers comp on employees. Down here its a rare occurrence to cut on Government land as there luckily isn't much of it, mostly all private landowners so regulations are very broad.   

JakeG

Quote from: Kemper on January 17, 2014, 12:13:29 PM
I provide 100% and pay a base salary of $125 a day plus $50 bonus for every additional load. It doesn't matter if it's log, scragg or pulp. I usually put close to 5,000 feet or 29 tons on each load.

Sounds like a simple, fair system with incentives.

Adjusting hand falling rates according to the timber can be complicated. One could use this PDF from MSU (Pine Timber Volume-to-Weight Conversions http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p2244.pdf) and this link (http://www.meepi.org/lif/costs.doc) to help figure out what to charge/pay, or how to adjust for timber size/quality.

Again, it may be too complicated! But if you really want to know how much it cost to run a saw in certain wood, those are good sources for base numbers imo.
$5.00 fine for whinin'

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