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Fifteen Year Old Oaks and Vermeer 44 Treespade

Started by billhook, January 13, 2014, 02:11:47 PM

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billhook

I planted about a hundred oak trees in a sheltered plantation about fifteen years ago.   They have done well and need thinning.  It seems a shame to just cut down good trees and the next door neighbour has a Vermeer 44a treespade for sale.  Bit past its sell by date, engine siezed but fitted up for a tractor hydraulics which work quite well. I have tested by moving three four inch diameter trees already.  Superficially it all looks successful.. Might get it for under $5000.

Whole thing is a bit of a labour of love rather than looking for commercial reward, but would hire out occasionally.

My worry is that since the trees have been in a sheltered plantation and I will be planting some of them in open parkland as specimen trees and some as part of a new wood in an arable field, will their root systems have developed in an unsuitable way for this?

In reality how do these transplanted trees perform compared to whips after say ten or twenty years .  Is the stress of the transplant and root cut so great that  whips planted at the same time catch up fast?

Is this worth all the effort or should I stick to simple planting of whips.

Or would I be better just spending the $5000 on some oaks that have been properly rootballed from a specialist.  I still have to plant them mind you and have them delivered.

Should I set the Treespade around the tree about to be moved a year before to hopefully cut the roots and encourage a root ball or do people not bother in practice?

Any guidance would be welcome

Mark Wentzell

I've never worked with a treespade before, but I can't see one being used for thinning effectively. It would depend what your goals are for the oaks you planted, are you just looking to  transplant a few trees and leave the rest to their own devices or are you interested in managing the stand for timber?

My biggest worry would be leaving a bunch of holes in the ground of the stand from the tree spade. Of course you can go back and fill all those holes in. you also run the risk of damaging any trees that you leave. I think oak would be one of the harder species to move.

billhook

Thank you Mark for your advice.  I must admit I had not considered the damage to the neighbouring tree roots.  Once you have dug the first hole in the field you take the plug of soil back to the spot where you are taking the tree from.  The first plug will need to be left on the surface but subsequent plugs can be put straight into the previous hole left by removing a tree.

I think that there is enough room between the trees to remove the alternate ones without hurting the neighbour too much. There are probably three yards either side of the trees  to the next tree.  They are staggered in two rows around the lake. I intend to leave those ones to develop normally as amenity trees around the lake and plant the removed ones in either parkland or as part of a new wood on an awkward corner of an arable field.

It just seems such a shame to thin such good looking trees and I now have been given this opportunity with the tree spade to save fifteen years that is if tree spading does not knock an oak tree back too far.
So that really is the question.  Would I be better starting from scratch with whips or should I make the most of this chance?

beenthere

Interesting project.
But seems to me if there is room among the trees to get in with a tree spade, then the trees are already spaced far enough apart and do not need thinning (at least at this young age).
Pics of your stand would help to understand better what you are faced with.

Where are you located? And what is the soil like there?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

billhook,welcome to the forum. How big is your tractor,HP size? I have a 40hp and it's hard to get it though the woods without barking other trees up. Getting it in place can be hard at times. How tall are the trees? Might have to tie them in place for a few years.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ron Scott

The tree spade should do well on trees up to 4 inches in diameter. Do the transplanting during early spring or late fall. The tree spade will be more beneficial for landscaping the area where you want to place trees with a pre planned landscaping plan. Some stand thinning can be done in the stand that you are transplanting the trees from depending upon the stand and accessibility of the individual trees specifically planned for removal.

It appears that you have the idea as to how to work the transplanter in regards to operating the holes etc. With a little practice with your oak transplanting, you may be able to hire out to others wanting some landscaping done with the transplanter. This will help justify its cost.

We have had good success in transplanting hardwoods and softwoods in recreation areas, and doing road closures, windbreaks, improving cover, etc. with a Vermeer Tree Spade.
~Ron

thecfarm

And if you hire it out you can show them at your place what a great job it did.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

billhook

I am a farmer in (Old) England  and the forty or so acres of woodland here are a labour of love.  Some of the oaks were planted by my three greats grandfather in the early 1800s, he died in 1861.
I have always loved the woodland, my father was a great influence.  He was an amateur lepidopterist and would plant trees like the Black Poplar just for the HawkMoths.
I am more into machinery and bought a Lucas Mill in 1996 which is still going strong and I have converted a lot of ash and beech into flooring as well as using it to cut rough timber, posts and rails for the farm
Together with a Palax wood processor we mostly burn our logs on wood stoves but do sell surplus.  Being a farm we are quite well equipped with a three ton capacity forklift with grab and buckets , several tractors including a wonderful old 1956 Caterpillar D7 bulldozer and a nearly clapped out 15 ton JCB swing shovel. Both great in the  woods.

Father planted several acres of white poplar for the match industry in 1960 and promised me a fortune in the year 2000. The graph of profit from poplar looked very different in 1960 to the one today when nobody smokes and if they do they use butane lighters!  We heard that the ultimate log cabin was made from poplar in Oregon and there is a Chapel there made from poplar over 100 years old.
The result was I went on a full scribe course in 2000 and we have a beautiful poplar wood log cabin by the lake surrounded by fifteen year old oak, which need thinning!

So the answer is I will probably buy this tree spade as part of the armoury, but I am still interested to know of people's thoughts on the procedure after a passage of time.
Do tree spaded oaks put in good ground and watered and protected recover well from their ordeal and romp away in their new surroundings, or are they never quite the same again?

SwampDonkey

It will depend on tree vigour as much as the procedure. If the trees are a bit stressed from growing in low light, they will produce more 'shade leaves'. These shade leaves are not as hardy in full light conditions and can break down and the tree burns up from lack of water. I learned this a number of years ago trying to transplant understory saplings. They would live about 3 years max before dying. This applies to hardwood and softwood. The neighbor keeps planting suppressed balsam fir and hardwood on his lawn, they keep burning up. I have to have a talk with them sometime to get them on the right path to success. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

billhook


Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 14, 2014, 05:09:32 AM
It will depend on tree vigour as much as the procedure. If the trees are a bit stressed from growing in low light, they will produce more 'shade leaves'. These shade leaves are not as hardy in full light conditions and can break down and the tree burns up from lack of water. I learned this a number of years ago trying to transplant understory saplings. They would live about 3 years max before dying. This applies to hardwood and softwood. The neighbor keeps planting suppressed balsam fir and hardwood on his lawn, they keep burning up. I have to have a talk with them sometime to get them on the right path to success. ;D

They are out in the open and not shaded by any other trees apart from each other so I would not classify them as understory.  Still interesting to hear this thank you.

SwampDonkey

That will be a on the plus side at least. ;D It's going to be a lot of work, but that never stopped me before, so I'm sure you can get this done. I prefer moving all my trees in the spring before buds break. I hardly loose a tree that way. Sometimes there is still a little frost in the ground and the top soil is wet and packy. When the end of May comes I only plant containerized seedlings, not saplings and only if moister is sufficient. I've planted trees for about 35 years. I'm usually sinking a tree here and there every year or a seed. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

billhook

The man who is selling the machine came over yesterday to look at my first two attempts at transplanting four inch oaks into parkland.  He was impressed with my work (well he would be wouldn't he as he was trying to sell it!) but I feel that it had done a good job so we then had to start negotiating a price.

I found myself in a strong position as we had driven into the only slightly wet grass parkland in his  huge Ford Expedition SUV.  The truck went slower and slower till it reached a standstill.  Level ground no mud.  I had a look at the wheels and the back tyres were spinning madly and nothing happening up front. "Hit the diff lock button " I said but he told me that it was all computerised and linked to the ABS and there were no levers or switches in the cab.
On further examination we both had the shock of our automotive careers when we discovered that the *DanG thing was rear wheel drive only.   He had been driving it for two years and never known it was not 4 wheel drive!
Quite how somebody can produce a huge butch looking vehicle like that with "EXPEDITION " written across the back and only 2wd is beyond me!  What sort of expeditions had they in mind?

The fact that I had to walk back to the farm, unlock a shed, start up a tractor, find a chain  and haul him backwards for half a mile ( no tow hook.on the front) I think cost him dearly when we agreed the price!

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