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Stihl 034 bar oil issue

Started by Local4Fitter, January 12, 2014, 02:37:10 PM

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Local4Fitter

I bought a used 034 at a flea market from a vendor who repairs and sells used and new chainsaws. Oil doesn't seem to be making it to the chain. I pulled the bar and cleaned the port on the bar. I have run the saw without the bar on to confirm that oil is being pumped, and it is. I then reinstalled the bar and chain and ran it while pointing the tip at a clean patch of snow and see no oil flying off the bar. I know oil is coming out because it is covering the bottom of the saw body. The bar is a Stihl brand not aftermarket. My old husky would use a tank of oil for every tank of fuel, this Stihl only goes through half a tank of oil per tank of fuel. Not sure if this is normal. I think I have the oil screw turned up all the way. Thanks Doug
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

clww

What does your chain look like after cutting with it? Is it dull and dry looking? Any smoke coming off the bar, especially near the tip? How hot is the bar, any discoloration?
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

Local4Fitter

Yes its very dry. Chain gets discolored and bar is hot. No smoke coming off the bar. I believe its getting some oil but not enough.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

sawguy21

Is the bar the correct one for the saw?
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Local4Fitter

Quote from: sawguy21 on January 12, 2014, 04:46:46 PM
Is the bar the correct one for the saw?
That I'm not sure of. It originally had an 18" but I wanted a 20" so the vendor switched with another saw. Could it be that the oil hole in the bar is in the wrong spot? I don't know the model # of the saw it came off of.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Al_Smith

FWIW it would have to be a Stihl mount size to even fit .What it could be is some of the Oregon bars for some reason had small oil holes which would restrict oil flow .

Local4Fitter

Quote from: Al_Smith on January 12, 2014, 04:57:10 PM
FWIW it would have to be a Stihl mount size to even fit .What it could be is some of the Oregon bars for some reason had small oil holes which would restrict oil flow .
This one has Stihl written on the side.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

ZeroJunk

Chances are that the oil line between the pump and the bar is leaking and with the added pressure when you put the bar on it's just dumping the oil behind the cover. You will need to pull the clutch to really see what is going on. It it indeed needs replacing it takes a special line with a spring in it to keep it from collapsing that you buy at the Stihl dealer. If you have never done it before, buy two.

If that line is good pull the pump and check the internal oil line. If it is good that only leaves the pump.

Al_Smith

It's been a while since I had an 034 apart .However if I'm not mistaken it uses a center drive pump that uses a wire spring like affair to engage in a small slot in the clutch drum .It might be the wire is broken or not aligned in that slot .

I have an 034 super project saw in the garage .I suppose I could investigate if it doesn't get figured out .I will say this in defense of Stihl,their pumps usually work very well .

thecfarm

Just so you know,My 372 hushy only goes through about a half tank of oil to a tank of gas. If sawing steady with it,I only fill the oil up every other tank full of gas.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ZeroJunk

Quote from: Al_Smith on January 12, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
It's been a while since I had an 034 apart .However if I'm not mistaken it uses a center drive pump that uses a wire spring like affair to engage in a small slot in the clutch drum .It might be the wire is broken or not aligned in that slot .

I have an 034 super project saw in the garage .I suppose I could investigate if it doesn't get figured out .I will say this in defense of Stihl,their pumps usually work very well .

Yep, worm gear with a piece of spring steel running in a slot in the clutch drum.

Local4Fitter

Thanks guys, never pulled one apart but I'll give it a try and see what I come up with.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

ZeroJunk

You should be able to determine something once you get the chain brake cover off. If it is leaking back behind it there will be an oily mess. To get the clutch off take the spark plug out, turn the clutch clockwise until the piston approaches the top and push a good bit of starter cord down in there to stop the piston. The reason to have it approaching the top is because you want it above the ports. Clutch is righty loosey.

Somebody will probably say that it is the end of life as we know it if you use a cord instead of a piston stop. But, I have always done it that way and wouldn't buy a stop for one repair.

Al_Smith

A length of rope is probabley better than a piston stop. Just watch you don't get it caught in the transfer ports .

Local4Fitter

Here's what I did so far. I removed the bar and chain.  I removed the spark plug and muffler just to see what I was dealing with. I removed the plastic chain brake cover and took a look, not really a lot of oil behind it, some oil but not a lot. I then replaced the muffler and plug and ran the saw, no oil coming out of end of port. There was a little bit of oil dripping from behind the clutch. I now have the clutch off and I am assuming that I am looking at the pump with the oil delivery tube coming out of it. Tube seems to be intact. AHAH! I was just looking at the pump in the middle of typing this. The two torx head screws that hold it in place were loose and the pump didn't seem to be sealing against the port on the tank. They felt to be tight and when I turned on them a bit more I broke one. Luckily there was enough sticking out to get vise grips on it and remove it. They seem a bit long. I will go to the dealer today and get new ones. I see that small bent wire and that seems to be ok. It looks like the pump wasn't mounted tight enough and was leaking before oil got to the pump and maybe also the worm gear was not being engaged. I will let everybody know how she oils when I get it back together. Thanks for all your help. Doug
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Al_Smith

Screws are M4 by 12 in case you wanted to know.

Local4Fitter

Quote from: Al_Smith on January 13, 2014, 01:29:04 PM
Screws are M4 by 12 in case you wanted to know.
Thanks Al. I got the right screws. The screws that were in it were long. Unfortunately after I got it all back together still no oil moving. Question: When I had the pump removed I had a full tank of oil. Should the oil flow gravity from the tank through the port where the pump bolts to? I noticed no oil flowing. Maybe the tank has sediment clogging that line to the pump? What would you do next? Is there another tube between the tank and the pump that could be cracked or leaking?
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Local4Fitter

Is there some kind of screen filter in the tank itself or does sawdust just run right through the pump?
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

AdkStihl

Quote from: Local4Fitter on January 14, 2014, 07:36:46 AM
Is there some kind of screen filter in the tank itself or does sawdust just run right through the pump?

There is a pick-up body similar to a fuel filter however it is more or less just a window screen. Fine stuff will surpass the filter and clog the pump/lines over time.
Empty the tank of oil and fill with kerosene. Allow that to sit for a few hours and then run the saw like you would if it had bar oil in it.
The kerosene should flush any coagulated oil and fines that may be plugging you up.
You could also use compressed air to flush the lines, just be careful.
J.Miller Photography

ZeroJunk

Quote from: AdkStihl on January 14, 2014, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: Local4Fitter on January 14, 2014, 07:36:46 AM
Is there some kind of screen filter in the tank itself or does sawdust just run right through the pump?

There is a pick-up body similar to a fuel filter however it is more or less just a window screen. Fine stuff will surpass the filter and clog the pump/lines over time.
Empty the tank of oil and fill with kerosene. Allow that to sit for a few hours and then run the saw like you would if it had bar oil in it.
The kerosene should flush any coagulated oil and fines that may be plugging you up.
You could also use compressed air to flush the lines, just be careful.



That sounds like a good idea. You should be able to get the filter out through the fill hole with a hook probe or hooked piece of wire. The line itself just pulls out from the pump side.

Local4Fitter

Thanks a lot guys I will try that. Is there an alternative to kerosene? Maybe diesel fuel? Not sure where I can get kerosene around here.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Local4Fitter

Bought a gallon of K-1 at the hardware store. Ill let it soak and try again in a few hours. Kero$ene is pricey.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

HolmenTree

I've seen pieces of tin foil from bar oil jug's seal fall into the oil tank and wrap around the oil line pickup screen head stopping suction.
As Zerojunk said the 034 and 064s were famous for leaking oil pump delivery lines to the bar pad.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Local4Fitter

I let the kerosene sit in the tank for 3 hours. When I started the saw there was nothing coming from the port I thought the oil should be coming from (about a 3/16" tube with a brass ferulle at the opening). Just below that there is a 3/8" circle,looks like white plastic, with a small hole dead center of it. This part was spraying kerosene from it at high rev. Confused. Can't find an exploded view so I don't know what it is.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

sablatnic


ZeroJunk

Yes it should come out where you think. That other deal is the tank vent.

Local4Fitter

I hooked the filter inside the tank but the tube isn't long enough to allow the filter to come out of the tank to clean it off. Didn't seem right. I'm thinking how the hell did they get the filter on there.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

ZeroJunk

I don't remember, is it small enough in diameter to come out the pump side of the tank with the line ? About has to if you can't get to it.

I just looked at them on eBay. I think it will come out the pump side.

Al_Smith

I think it goes on a nipple in the tank .You can snatch them off and on with a set of long hemostates but it's a royal pain in the a ---er rear end< under the radar ,HA Ha Ha . :D

Local4Fitter

I think tomorrow I will pull the pump off again and try to push some air through (with a bicycle pump) from the pump side through the pickup tube. If the whole tube won't come out the pump side.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

ZeroJunk

Go look up an 034 oil line on eBay. I know the line comes in and out the pump side and it looks like the filter is narrow enough to come out as well.  I haven't replaced but one and it has been long enough. I have trouble remembering what I did yesterday. But, I know it was not a big deal.

Local4Fitter

Quote from: ZeroJunk on January 14, 2014, 09:41:48 PM
Go look up an 034 oil line on eBay. I know the line comes in and out the pump side and it looks like the filter is narrow enough to come out as well.  I haven't replaced but one and it has been long enough. I have trouble remembering what I did yesterday. But, I know it was not a big deal.
Funny you say that. I was doing just that 5 minutes ago and it does look like the delivery tube will come out through the pump side. I read on line that they usually get destroyed when removing them, Thanks Doug
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Local4Fitter

I have another pump issue that I just found and its baffling me. I filled the tank with kerosene and put the pump back together with the correct bolts and ran the saw. I had no flow through the tube so I took everything apart again and realized the plastic worm gear that drives the pump was stripped. I picked up another worm gear and carefully installed it and tried to turn it by hand but it was binding. I removed the worm gear and realized the pump gear would not turn when installed. I know that the pump gear would turn when I had it in my hand. I loosened the bolts and the gear turns, tighten them ever so slightly and it binds up. I don't see any cracks in the pump housing that would cause it to bind when tightened. When I say ever so slightly I'm talking about 5 inch pounds tight before the gear binds up. ???
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

ZeroJunk

Maybe somebody smarter than me will chime in, but I think there were adjustable and non adjustable pumps for this model and chances are the gear is different. I assumed from the start that yours is non adjustable.

Local4Fitter

I just ordered a new pump from e-bay. Hope it works. Frustrated. I have been laid off for a week and it's killing me that I can't cut the load of wood sitting next to the wood shed.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

simonmeridew

I'm sure you know better, but some of the adjustable 034 don't have the icon on the case bottom that shows which way to turn the screw. It's counterintuitive: turn it to the right for more oil, turn to the left to turn it off(when you  need to split a deer carcass).
Otherwise ebay has what you need.
simonmeridew
Kubota L4400, Farmi 351

beenthere

Quote(when you  need to split a deer carcass).

Side note:
Why split a deer carcass?  and why with a chainsaw?  ??
Butchered a lot of deer and never could figure why some split them.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Local4Fitter

Quote from: beenthere on January 24, 2014, 12:18:54 AM
Quote(when you  need to split a deer carcass).

Side note:
Why split a deer carcass?  and why with a chainsaw?  ??
Butchered a lot of deer and never could figure why some split them.
Most guys run Wesson Oil in the saw. :D
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Local4Fitter

Got a new oil pump and put it in the saw. Back in business. Still not sure why the other pump would seize up when I tightened the housing. Thanks for all the input guys.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Holmes

  You now have your new saw and a spare saw?  Thats the way to go 8) 8)
Think like a farmer.

Local4Fitter

Now that I have the new saw I hope I don't need to use the spare. I ran them both today. I realize that these two saws are not considered equals but man that 365 can cut.
1974 John Deere 510, Wood fired pizza oven,2005 Dodge/Cummins,Firearms for all occasions.

Red Good

Thanks for the Stihl link guys , that will help me sort out my oiling problem . Red
Stihl 211C saw
Massey 135 deisel tractor with a front loader
Can Am 800 max quad
2001 Chev S10 pick me up
Home made log arch

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