low impact Logging?

[PeytonM]

I don't really know if this is the spot to post this but I was just curious of low impact logging and wanted to know how many members did it. I've been in the works of logging with horse's but I've had a rather slow start.

Thanks

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Do you only do horse logging?  Would be interested to hear about it.

Whereabouts do you log?

[thecfarm]

PeytonM,welcome to the forum.I cut a little on my land with a 40hp tractor. Use to do it for money,now it's just for my firewood. I call what I do low impact. But if logger does not know how to fall trees,he can make a mess. I even cut my brush into 2-3 foot long pieces. Gets on the ground and rots quicker.The pine limbs gets cut into pieces not much longer than 2 feet. I don't need a 3-4 inch piece of white pine limb going through my radiator.

[celliott]

Why not instead of low impact practices, utilize positive impact forestry practices? Leave the woods better than before, improve upon your forest.

[giant splinter]

Payton,
Most of the logging that I am involved in in considered low impact logging, I get involved in grading roadways and sitework for waterfront custom homes including slope stabilization, utilities, storm water control and building pads for some nice custom homes and ranches. The developers of these properties do not want to wipe out all the trees and always try to keep the best and healthiest trees to set off their projects, this involves some well thought out plans when it comes to clearing what has to go and not tearing up the trees and brush that are going to stay, often times includes stump removal in tight spots and dissecting some trees that cannot be felled without damaging some nice, valuable specimen keepers the will remain as part of the landscape. It always involves lots of rigging, winching, carrying logs and slash out without skidding and access or haul roads, to help get it done fast and clean, often times it seems like it might be the hard way of getting it done but it does accomplish the results needed.
These projects always cost more and take longer than the standard logging jobs and can be very boring for most real loggers to be involved with, many a pain in the neck and many a long day go into low impact and selective logging jobs, some days you won't get enough to the landing to make a load, in the end you win a few, you lose a few and some get rained out.  ;D

[Piston]

Like Cfarm, I also consider my personal logging setup "low impact".  I have a small tractor and try to carry the logs out of the woods, rather than skid them.  I try to cut and grind the stumps to reduce soil erosion. 

There are only a handful of people I've seen on here that do horse logging, but I find it very interesting every time I hear something about it. 

The term "low impact" has sort of become a catch phrase these days....

[ffpup]

I am in the process of getting set up to do logging with mules. I have located a savannah loader bed and a truck to put it on. If anyone knows of one that is already on a truck that could be bought reasonable please let me know. I have a team of mules and knowledge to work them. I have cut a lot of trees and run a 00 vance. So i thought what the heck. I don't need to make a lot of money just like to work my mules. I have a good job in the city with a lot of time off  ;D

[Mark Wentzell]

Low impact logging is great. 

  

 

[bill m]

Why not instead of low impact practices, utilize positive impact forestry practices? Leave the woods better than before, improve upon your forest.
[/quote
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Care to explain?

[celliott]

Why not instead of low impact practices, utilize positive impact forestry practices? Leave the woods better than before, improve upon your forest.
[/quote
Not sure I understand what you're saying. Care to explain?

I guess it depends how you interpret "low impact"
If you think of "low impact" as damage minimizing practices, then, you still are causing some damage, albeit less (a tractor and winch VS a Tigercat grapple skidder)
A positive impact leaves the forest better than it was. Yes, you are still making an impact on the forest, but instead of minimizing damage, you aren't damaging, rather improving.
Depends on interpretation I guess.
Where I'm getting this from, is a book I read for a silviculture class in college. Positive Impact Forestry: A Sustainable Approach to Managing Woodlands, written by Thomas McEvoy. A good read, I thought. I enjoyed the book. Need to read it again!

[bill m]

There's only one way to interpret low impact logging that I'm aware of and that is to use equipment and methods to limit disturbance to the forest. You can do positive impact forestry with any size equipment but you have a hard time doing low impact logging with big equipment.

[Piston]

There's only one way to interpret low impact logging that I'm aware of and that is to use equipment and methods to limit disturbance to the forest. You can do positive impact forestry with any size equipment but you have a hard time doing low impact logging with big equipment.

If I wanted could afford the "ideal" low impact logging setup, I would go with the exact setup you have.  No skid damage, no heavy footprints, low fuel consumption, maneuverable, and less chance of damaging other trees while on the move. 

(course you can't beat the fuel consumption of horses  :D)

[John Mc]

I've always felt that "low impact" logging depended more on the people involved than the equipment used.  Of course, there are limits to this, but horse loggers can do a tremendous amount of damage - as can any other kind of logger. There is still the potential for tearing up the access trails (setting them up for erosion and causing water quality issues), residual stand damage, & etc.

The mere fact that you are using a horse (or a forwarder, or a tractor, or whatever) doesn't make you low-impact. It's how you use the equipment.

BTW... I also found Thom McEvoy's "Positive Impact Forestry" book an  interesting read, though it did ruffle a few feathers in the industry.  Thom was the extension forester for Vermont for a number of years.  I attended a 2 or 3 day seminar he and Alan Calfee taught when the book first came out.

[Piston]

BTW... I also found Thom McEvoy's "Positive Impact Forestry" book an  interesting read, though it did ruffle a few feathers in the industry.  Thom was the extension forester for Vermont for a number of years.  I attended a 2 or 3 day seminar he and Alan Calfee taught when the book first came out.

John,
Is that book written for the average landowner, or is it a "difficult read" to all but professional foresters? 

[celliott]

Piston, it is an interesting read and I would say it's very understandable to a knowledgeable landowner (which I think is mainly the targeted audience) It is not written like a college textbook.

[thecfarm]

One guy at work tried to argue with me that horses made more of a mess in the woods because you can't ran over the brush with  horses.  : 

[John Mc]

It's been a number of years since I read it, but my recollection was that it was very readable.  I'm not a forester. I consider myself a "somewhat informed" landowner. I do not recall having much difficulty with it.

A couple of other good reads:

Working with Your Woodland: A Landowner's Guide (Revised Edition), by Mollie Beattie (it's been even longer since I read that, so I can't tell you much about it other than that I found it interesting.

More than a Woodlot: Getting the Most From Your Family Forest, by Stephen Long (former editor of Northern Woodlands Magazine)

You can find all of the above on Amazon (around here some local bookstores also carry them).

[hardtailjohn]

 

(course you can't beat the fuel consumption of horses  :D)

Depends on the "impact" you're talking about.... my wallet's impacted by the "fuel consumption" all of our Clydesdales a whole bunch!  :D (about 2 tons of hay every week, during the winter) :D
John

[Piston]

Thanks!  I've read "A Landowner's Guide" (a couple times) but I'll check out the other two. 

[John Mc]

Some of those books are drifting off the topic of low-impact logging and into more about goals  and approaches to working with your forest, but they're still interesting.

Piston, are you familiar with Northern Woodlands magazine? It's a quarterly publication. I always look forward to my copy.  It's a great balance between timber/forest products, wildlife and other considerations.

Northern Woodlands also has a few booklets out called The Place You Call Home. These are landowner-oriented, and an interesting read. THey're also inexpensive ($3 each). The description on their web site: a series of "owner's manuals" for people who own land in the greater Northern Forest region of New England and New York. Each manual includes how-to articles, discussion of land management options such as improving wildlife habitat or donating a conservation easement, tips for tracking wildlife, and contact information for government agencies, consulting foresters, and conservation organizations.

They've done editions for the Upper Valley of the CT River, the Catskills, Vermont, and New York.  They have plans to add versions for Maine, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire, but I don't know what the status is of those.

[Offthebeatenpath]

I'd add "Low Impact Forestry: Forestry as if the Future Mattered" to the list.  It's a series of essays written by various folks and edited by Mitch Lansky.

I spent a couple winters trying to fit the niche between a horse logger and a small skidder operation (in terms of both production and impact) by using a rubber tracked skid steer to pull logs.  I also use hand powered winches to move single trees in certain applications.  There are some photos in my gallery (click the little camera below my avatar) if you feel like viewing the equipment.

I now have a small cable skidder and have found that "low impact" practices have as much to do with ability of the cutters and operators, time of year, overall cutting/skidding practices, and ground conditions as the equipment used. 

I have had very limited experience with stock animals- a few days cutting for a team of oxen- but I imagine those crews must have a winch on hand if/when trees get hung up.  What do you horse/mule/ox loggers do in when that happens?

[g_man]

I have a neighbor that keeps a horse. She and sometimes her friends uses my tractor roads in the woods for her/their trail riding place. From what I can see her horses do plenty of damage. And they always take the same route down the middle of the road and compact a nice rut for a water furrow. Just an observation. I know trail riding and logging are different.

[Ford_man]

I like the pic's the one with the team tied to the back of the trailer. The one must be "Mr Ed" it looks like he is talking to you. Maybe he is just ordering dinner.

[DbltreeBelgians]

 

(course you can't beat the fuel consumption of horses  :D)

Depends on the "impact" you're talking about.... my wallet's impacted by the "fuel consumption" all of our Clydesdales a whole bunch!  :D (about 2 tons of hay every week, during the winter) :D
John

I can relate to that very well John.  :D
And with the recent "Polar Vortex" we had last week here I noticed the used hay production in the barn was up quite a bit seeing how we had the boys closed in for a while.   

Brent

[Southside]

 

(course you can't beat the fuel consumption of horses  :D)

Depends on the "impact" you're talking about.... my wallet's impacted by the "fuel consumption" all of our Clydesdales a whole bunch!  :D (about 2 tons of hay every week, during the winter) :D
John

Holy - how many Clydes do you have?  I am fortunate we live in an area we can stockpile forage in the fall to offset a lot of our feed needs for the 3 spotted drafts we have, just throw them a flake of alfalfa each once a day for some additional protein.