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tractor/loader

Started by chuck172, January 04, 2014, 05:30:16 PM

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chuck172

What's a good sized tractor/loader for firewood? This would be for skidding,   and the loader for general firewood hauling.
Has to be 4x4, diesel, and have a loader.
I'm thinking used, 5 yrs. old or so.

beenthere

My Deere 4300 works perfect for me.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

Just firewood? Probably a 20hp-30hp would do it. Just have to take a few more trips. I use mine 40hp to dig rocks with and to work in the woods. Pick up logs to put on my sawmill too. I would not want anything smaller than what I have. I could use a bigger one. Just depends what you will be doing with it. Also hard to tell what you want to do in 2 years too.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

DeerMeadowFarm

I bought a 35 hp MF tractor when I first bought my land. I used it for 6 years and realized it was too small. MF had a 0% finance deal going on so I traded up to a 52 hp cab model. Couldn't be happier! Buying a good brand name like MF, Kubota, NH, or JD pays off if you ever decide to trade. My dealer gave me what I paid for my first tractor towards my trade; pretty good for getting 6 years use out of it!

gspren

  Is this just personal use or are you cutting to sell? If your mostly cutting for yourself I'd go older and bigger than your thinking. A good farm tractor from the 70s or 80s were heavier and sturdier for their horsepower than the newer ones, cheaper too.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Holmes

Kubota has a few different models ,   B home owner,  L heavier duty,  M heavy duty.  I have a b 3030 4x4 with cab love it but when I get into logs it just is not strong enough. I also have a  Zetor proxima 4x4 with cab 65hp will do most any thing.
Think like a farmer.

stumper

What I have found is that tractors are like storage.  What you have is never quite enough.  I started with a 24 hp Kubota, bumped that to a 27 hp.  I would like larger. 

My suggestion is to look at whether you will ever be moving it.  I move mine regularly.  Then look at what you need for a transmission.  Hydrostatic for loader and multiple operators.  Shuttle shift for limited loader work.  Also look at what you need for tires.  Then buy the biggest you can move and afford.  I would suggest a manufacture with a dealer you can trust.  For me in my area I would go Kubota then John Deere, then Koiti then MF.

Look hard at what you want and shop price.  I have found that compact tractors properly taken care of are worth around %80 of the cost new.  But you can find deals if you look.  I bought my 24 horse from a dealer, used it 4 months and decided I needed different tires.  I could not swap tires economically, so I sold it for $1000 more then I bought it.  Deals like this are not uncommon.  I have a friend that has gone through 3 or 4 tractors in as many years and always sold them for more then he paid for them.

Warning, once you have one you will never be able to live with out one.

blackfoot griz

I have a JD 4600 4wd (45 hp ish) and a Case 1070 (105 hp ish)
For sheer pulling the Case is the choice.  But on everyday, multiple tasks that little JD will run circles around the Case.
The JD had around 300 hours on it when I got it.(from a Kubota shop)  It came with a FEL, snowplow, and backhoe attachment for a very good price. It is the best machinery investment I have ever made.

You're looking for used stuff...there are a number of websites where you can search by brand, HP, model # etc that can be a great aide in locating and pricing info.






DeerMeadowFarm

Whatever you get, try to get the skid-steer style quick connects for the bucket because you'll want it when you buy forks, grapple, etc. My first tractor had Massey Ferguson style pin connectors; a good system but brand specific. JD has their own system as well whcih is nice but again brand specific. Going skid-steer style is much more universal and you'll be able to buy used attachments easier.

Also, try to get something with auxillary hydrualics. I have two sets of remotes out back and a set of lines I run to the front. My first tractor I added a third valve and I wish this one had a third as well.

uplander

 I would suggest that you also shop with an eye towards the weight of the tractor. All the horse power in the world will not matter if the machine is not heavy enough to give the tires traction. For me that is in the 3500-4000 lb. range with implement.

I am about to trade an older 4wd tractor in on a new machine that will be a little more comfortable to operate and easier to use. About 45 horse power.
Woodmizer lt40G28.  A kubota L4600 with loader and forks.
Various Stihl saws and not enough time to use them!
Finished my house finally. Completely sawn out on by band mill. It took me 7 years but was worth it. Hardest thing I have ever done.

chuck172

I have an old ford 4500 tlb and a ford 8n now. I'd like to upgrade to make my life easier.
I was given very good advice to keep the tlb, and improve on the 8n. By that I mean 4wd and a loader. I will need the tractor to plow snow, haul firewood, york rake the driveway, and bush-hog around the property.
I like the answers here with at least 45HP, and 4WD.

beenthere

We'll likely each answer to what we have, but with your specs as given then visit your nearest and best dealers be it Deere, Kubota, NH, Kioti or whatever and work from there. I'd suggest hydrostatic tranny and one with the individual brakes on one side and not on the side the forward and reverse pedals are at.

Try a few different ones out. What you find and like may be different from what I'd recommend.

My Deere 4300 has worked great for me, but is lacking the hp that you spec. There are Deere sizes available that do match.  A FEL that is quick to attach and remove is a feature that I appreciate.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DeerMeadowFarm

One thing that I would caution on a hydrostatic transmission is that a gear drive is much easier to use if you have any field work to do. Many of the haying operations would be a hassle to do with the hydrostatic transmissions that utilize the pedal for forward/reverse. It is great for loader work, but not for field work IMO....

beenthere

Agree with that DMF.
But didn't think that likely was the OP's use of his tractor.
And I have cruise control that would work quite well for field work such as haying. Not so good for ground turning such as plowing or sub-soiling. For snow plowing, I use the cruise much of the time.
I think gear drives will go the way of the shift tranny's in cars and trucks. And I liked them too. :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Oliver1655

A 60 - 70 hp tractor can do a lot of work for the fuel it uses.  They can be used all weekend at moderate rpm's on a tank of fuel.

A cab in the winter time would be handy, but if you plan working in wooded areas will probably get in your way.

While I agree a 4x4 with a shuttle shift would be nice, for the money there are lots of older 2x4 tractors which would work for your needs. I have an older 2x4 Oliver1655, 1974, 70 hp.  It has a loader, forks, grapple, fluid filled rear 18.4 - 34 tires. I have enough weight I can lift & move a whole tree with a 16-18" trunk using the loader/forks/grapple / I can use a boom which will reach 29' in the air on the loader to lift trusses & place sheets of steel panel for the roof on the building / pull the well pump using a winch & snatch block / operate a 4 bottom plow, 11' disk, ... 

I have a boom with a 12,000 lb winch I use for retrieving logs from hard to reach areas.


 


 
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

beenthere

Oliver
Looks like a great rig.

And that boom with winch handy for a lot of different jobs too.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

DeerMeadowFarm

Quote from: beenthere on January 08, 2014, 02:32:14 PM
Agree with that DMF.
But didn't think that likely was the OP's use of his tractor.
And I have cruise control that would work quite well for field work such as haying. Not so good for ground turning such as plowing or sub-soiling. For snow plowing, I use the cruise much of the time.
I think gear drives will go the way of the shift tranny's in cars and trucks. And I liked them too. :)
It may not have been the OP's planned use of his tractor, but, as I'm sure you are aware, once you get a tractor, you come up with a lot of uses you hadn't thought of at the time you bought it!
My buddy's Kubota has cruise as well on his, but my BIL's JD does not so I know some come with them and some don't; I just don't know which do or dont! :)
Speaking of stick shifts, the truck I'm building now is going to have a 4 speed. 1st truck I've had since 1984 that I'll have to shift! But, my daughter is going to have to learn to drive soon enough and I wanted to have a vehicle around that she can learn to shift on. She may never need to know how with the vehicles she'll buy as she gets older, nut she'll DanG sure know how to do it if she ever needed to! ;)

Quote from: Oliver1655 on January 08, 2014, 02:35:11 PM
A 60 - 70 hp tractor can do a lot of work for the fuel it uses.  They can be used all weekend at moderate rpm's on a tank of fuel.

A cab in the winter time would be handy, but if you plan working in wooded areas will probably get in your way.

While I agree a 4x4 with a shuttle shift would be nice, for the money there are lots of older 2x4 tractors which would work for your needs. I have an older 2x4 Oliver1655, 1974, 70 hp.  It has a loader, forks, grapple, fluid filled rear 18.4 - 34 tires. I have enough weight I can lift & move a whole tree with a 16-18" trunk using the loader/forks/grapple / I can use a boom which will reach 29' in the air on the loader to lift trusses & place sheets of steel panel for the roof on the building / pull the well pump using a winch & snatch block / operate a 4 bottom plow, 11' disk, ... 

I have a boom with a 12,000 lb winch I use for retrieving logs from hard to reach areas.


 


 
Wow, I am loving that boom and winch set-up! Nice work!

thecfarm

I could of got a cruise control on the wife's NH tractor. I only have so much money to spend. Options like a cruise cost more. Maybe handy,but I only have so much money to spend.
Nothing a matter with a 2 wd tractor. I have both 2wd and a 4wd in the woods. I would not want to go back to a 2wd in the woods. But if it comes down to money,2wd is better than not having a tractor.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

chuck172

Oliver, does your winch pull the cable evenly, or does it get all raveled up needing constant attention?
I have a badlands 12000# winch on my tlb loader, and what a pain it is keeping the cable winding in straight.

twinturboram

Took this here a few days ago when moving some ash saw logs around. We use a Deere 5520 with a grapple. The machine has paid for itself several times over. Grapple is a great attachment, usually can pinch the end of the log and hold it at waist high to buck firewood. Helps with keeping logs clean if your buck them long enough you can snake them outa the woods. Hope to attack the top of this tree in the coming weekend. 



 

thecfarm

twinturboram,welcome to the forum. How many hp is that critter? A few members have grapples and like them. I would like one too.  ;D Do you have a sawmill?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

twinturboram

Thanks for the welcome! If I recall correctly its about 75 HP.  Its been a great reliable machine, and yes the grapple is by far one of the most used attachments we have.  Ironically I work at a MF dealer as a tech, but.. we bought the Deere new many years prior to that.  ;D  We have a small tree farm, and had a very well used LT  40 manual machine that we sold after building a log home for my parents. We now have some marketable wood and have been bitten by the milling bug again. A new LT 50 has our name on it, allegedly ready to pickup early Feb.

Oliver1655

Chuck ref winch:  As you use the winch the cable will become more compliant with being wrapped around the spool.  The key for me is to try to keep tension on the cable to keep it in position on the spool. In the photo the cable is hanging loose but normally I will snug it up to keep the cable on the spool tight. 

The distance from the winch to the snatch block effects the spooling as well.  The greater the distance the better it will spool.  Mine in a minimal distance but I didn't want to have the boom any longer.  If it was any longer it would interfere with loads on the trailer I use for hauling the logs as well as increase the risk for doing wheelies. (The loader/tractor weight on the front end really help to minimize the wheelies.)
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

Piston

Chuck,
I tend to take the opposite approach when recommending what size tractor to get, sort of a backwards approach if you will  ;D  Kinda fits my personality  :D


I would first think about what jobs you want to accomplish with it, including the firewood hauling.  Then think about what attachments/implements you'll need to do those jobs, or rather, which ones will make a lot easier and more enjoyable. 

For instance, if your going to be doing a lot of firewood gathering, and skidding logs, you'll want either a log skidder on the back or a logging winch, winches seem to be more popular.  Do you have large trees or small trees?  Small trees don't need a big winch, small winches don't need a big tractor.  Likewise, you don't want a small winch on a big tractor that its not rated for, and if you have a large over sized winch on a small tractor, you won't have much lift capacity left over for actually lifting the logs to skid. 

Are you going to be using a rotary cutter?  If so, how big do you want to use? Do you want to mow overgrown weeds or small 2" saplings with an occasional 4" thrown into the mix?  A HD rotary mower will weigh more than a small tractor can lift, and not be able to efficiently spin the blades in thick growth.  Likewise, you'll tear up a light duty mower with a larger HP tractor than it's rated for. 

There are obviously many attachments that can make jobs easier, and think about it this way, a tractor itself is virtually useless!  Without something on the front, or something on the back, it's just a big, slow moving vehicle that can't really accomplish any work.

It's the ATTACHMENTS and IMPLEMENTS that do ALL the work, the tractor just runs them!  This becomes important when considering your budget.  If you spend your whole budget on a nice fancy huge tractor, you won't have much left for the implements that actually do the work. 

Along the same lines as attachments and implements, are accessories for the tractor.  Meaning hydraulics!  Hydraulics are your friend  ;D  Things such as a hydraulic top link and hydraulic side link are very handy to have.  Other implements need a hydraulic remote to run as well.  I have 4 rear remote hydraulics as well as a FEL 3rd function to run something like a grapple, 4 in 1 bucket, snowplow angle etc...and I could use one additional rear remote!  Try to find something with a minimum of one rear remote, as others can be added fairly reasonably after the fact, but still more $$$ than buying one that is already equipped with one. 

For firewood handling, I can't think of a more useful attachment than a front end loader (FEL) grapple like TwinTurboRam posted!  There simply isn't one, it is absolutely the most useful tool you can have on a tractor that will work at all in the woods. 
One caveat to a grapple, is that the smaller the tractor is, the less you can lift.  Grapples are fairly heavy, around 500lbs for a light duty one, which is all you'll need.  That takes 500lbs out of your lift capacity, if you have a 1k lb lift capacity, you can't lift much more than brush piles. 

I think the Kubota L series and JD 4x20 series frame sizes are the sweet spot for a homeowner with only one tractor who wants to do more heavy work than a typical "homeowner".  All manufactures make great tractors these days so I'm just using the Kubota and JD sizes as reference, as that's what I'm familiar with.   


I use my tractor almost exclusively for woods work, firewood, milling, clearing, mowing you name it.  It has it's limitations but does 90% of what I like to do.  I bought this tractor size because people told me to buy one size bigger than I thought I needed, well, I could have gone up another size, and would like to someday. 
I find that I could use more FEL lift capacity, as well as more PTO power, but I get by with what I have and for anything I can't lift I use the full sized backhoe. 

Transmission:  If you've never used an HST transmission....Don't!  Honestly.  I have an HST tranny and absolutely LOVE it for most things.  It's not perfect for everything, but it makes so many jobs so much easier/efficient, coupled with the grapple, you can do a lot of work in such a short amount of time.  However, If I never used one, I would be perfectly happy with a hydraulic shuttle shift transmission, still clutchless operation but not "as" great for loader work.
My problem now, is that they don't make larger tractors (aside from too large) with HST tranny yet, so I'm hesitant to go up one size, if they did, I'd have a bigger tractor  ;D



So, if you think about what attachments and implements you'll likely use, then what size you'd want, the answer to "What size tractor" virtually answers itself.   smiley_thumbsup


-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

chuck172

Oliver, I'm interested in your winch fairlead boom idea. Seems like it might help my spooling problem.
Do you have anymore pics. of your setup?

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