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Echo CS-590 Timberwolf

Started by strongsaw, January 03, 2014, 01:29:15 AM

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strongsaw

I know the Echo 600p has been discussed here and those that have one are pleased with the saw. I picked up a CS-590 a few weeks ago for $359 and no freight. Haven't used it yet, but I think I'll like it. Differences
in the 590 and 600 are 590 has cheaper bar, plastic top handle vs rubber coated metal, spur sprocket vs rim sprocket. I'm not aware of any other differences. I think the engine is the same. I see the Echo web site shows the 590 MSRP of $399.99. That's $50 or so cheaper than a few weeks ago, $160 cheaper than a CS-600. Seems like a lot of saw for the bucks. What is your thought?

Andyshine77

I looked over the IPL's for both the cs600 and cs590. Like you said only a few things were different. The cs590 is listed as having 3.89hp, the hp of the cs600 is not listed. Echo makes a quality products, always has. The issue with Echo saws has always been power to weight. 3.9 hp is quite low for 60cc saw, in fact a 50cc 550xp makes 3.7hp and only weighs 11.24 lbs. the cs390 comes in at 13.3 lbs. However for the average firewood cutter you did good. The cs590 has a vertically split mag case, which is a far better design than the plastic clam shell design, of other homeowner saws like the Stihl ms291 or Husqvarna 455 Rancher. 

My initial hunch is to say the cylinder on the cs590 may have different porting, which means less power than the cs600. There is no way for me to know without putting a degree wheel on both engines, and examining the cylinder. I've yet to work on or port one of these saws, but I do know they rune very well after porting.

Have fun with your new toy.

Andre.   
 
Andre.

ladylake

 No matter what the CLAIMED hp of 60cc saws the 60cc Echo cuts right with the other 60cc saws out there with a simple muff modd as most Echo saws come with a real choked up muff.  There are several vids on youtube. Also the CS590 and CS600p have the same part number for both the piston and cylinder, no difference in porting.  The new CS620p has different part numbers.  One other thing if parts are needed the oem cylinder is $102 and the piston kit is $57 which is I'd guess around $100 less than a comparable Husky or Stihl P@C .  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

mocoon

So I am guessing these saws are based off of Shindaiwa saws? I seen some at the dealer and they really looked like Shindaiwa saws.

Can we determine which Echo's are based off of Shindaiwas? 500p=502S and 600p=598.. Anymore?

strongsaw

Echo's target market with the 590, is the farm / ranch. I've seen ads comparing it to the Husky 455 and the Stihl 290, both huge sellers in this market, and good dependable saws for the average non pro woodcutter. I have owned and used both these models. All 3 saws weigh in the 13# range.  With the 590 pro design case, more power, and current lower pricing, it seems this is the best farm / ranch saw on the market IMHO. To me home owner saws are the inexpensive Poulan, Homelite, Ryobi, McCulloch, Etc., Etc. and don't compare with farm/ranch grade saws. I'm sure the dividing line between grades blurs in some cases.
                         Greg

Andyshine77

Quote from: ladylake on January 03, 2014, 05:50:10 AM
No matter what the CLAIMED hp of 60cc saws the 60cc Echo cuts right with the other 60cc saws out there with a simple muff modd as most Echo saws come with a real choked up muff.  There are several vids on youtube. Also the CS590 and CS600p have the same part number for both the piston and cylinder, no difference in porting.  The new CS620p has different part numbers.  One other thing if parts are needed the oem cylinder is $102 and the piston kit is $57 which is I'd guess around $100 less than a comparable Husky or Stihl P@C .  Steve

Like I said the cs590 and cs600 are fine saws, but they will not cut with the likes of a 562xp or ms362. A farm boss? yes. I consider any saw with a plastic case a homeowner saw, farm ranch saws are normally just larger, no real difference in design philosophy.

Please don't compare the Poulan's with Chinese made Homelite, Ryobi saws. Poulan'ss are built in Shreveport Louisiana, and are far better built than most inexperienced saw guy's would ever think. In fact the PP5020 is a nice saw, and at $200.00 or less for a 50cc saw, it's a steal.     
Andre.

ladylake

 There are vids on you tube with the CS600 about dead even with the MS361 Stihl and also vid of a 361 and 362 all cutting real close to one another, now if 1/2 second plus or minus in a 10 second cut matters much one or the other might be way ahead..  Also a vid of a 562xp broke in against a Echo 620P brand new real close to each other, the Echo might have that advantage after it's broke in but then does 1/2 second really matter.  I actually run pro Husky and Stihls saws and Echo saws.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Andyshine77

I've seen some of those videos, most of them mean have little merit IMHO. When each saw has a different bar and chain and a bad operator running the saw, the vids mean very little. Does cutting a 1/2 faster mean much to most firewood guys? not really. :new_year: 
Andre.

ladylake

I've actually run Echo saws side by side with Stihl and Huskys best and there is not much difference cc for cc or pound for pound out in the wood or by the sawmill.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

The Ripper

Quote from: Andyshine77 on January 03, 2014, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: ladylake on January 03, 2014, 05:50:10 AM
No matter what the CLAIMED hp of 60cc saws the 60cc Echo cuts right with the other 60cc saws out there with a simple muff modd as most Echo saws come with a real choked up muff.  There are several vids on youtube. Also the CS590 and CS600p have the same part number for both the piston and cylinder, no difference in porting.  The new CS620p has different part numbers.  One other thing if parts are needed the oem cylinder is $102 and the piston kit is $57 which is I'd guess around $100 less than a comparable Husky or Stihl P@C .  Steve

Like I said the cs590 and cs600 are fine saws, but they will not cut with the likes of a 562xp or ms362. A farm boss? yes. I consider any saw with a plastic case a homeowner saw, farm ranch saws are normally just larger, no real difference in design philosophy.

Please don't compare the Poulan's with Chinese made Homelite, Ryobi saws. Poulan'ss are built in Shreveport Louisiana, and are far better built than most inexperienced saw guy's would ever think. In fact the PP5020 is a nice saw, and at $200.00 or less for a 50cc saw, it's a steal.     

I have a PP5020 and the parts are manufactured,at least the aluminum parts from China and assembled in Louisiana. For $200 and then mobbed (really wakes this saw up),they indeed are a decent 50CC home owner saw.

woodchipper95

That was a good read... I like the Echo cs500p, best feeling saw in 50cc class IMO, fastest in the cut... no. I would want to do a mm as echo's need to breath a little more... but don't know how. I watched some vids on youtube but don't quite feel comfortable doing it myself.


Philbert

So the differences between their 600 and 620 series saws is a different piston and cylinder?

Their website is not very helpful - only shows an $80 MSRP difference.

Thanks.

Philbert

strongsaw

Went to Husqvarna Corp. website, says low price segment saws are produced in China. Other saws made in Japan, Brazil and of course Sweden. No mention of Husqvarna Group saws made in US. I assume low price segment would mean Poulan.
I have a Poulan 3400 bought new 1981 made in Shrevport, LA. I have Husky 235 with Chinese parts assembled in US, maybe LA. I don't believe Poulan saws are manufactured in US.
Just because a saw is produced in China doesn't mean it is junk or any worse than a cheap saw made somewhere else.
I assume that Redmax (Husky) are making saws in Japan.
The CS-590 I bought is made in Japan. Recently bought a CS-400 it was assembled in US. Of course Echo has no relationship with Husky.

strongsaw

Andre, If I showed someone inexperienced a Husqvarna 460 with a 24" bar and told them it is a home owner type saw, they might think I'm silly. Makes more sense to me to call it what it is, a farm/ranch saw.
Also, most cheaper homeowner saws have EPA hour rating of 50 hours. Some have 125 hour. Larger saws including most farm/ranch and all pro saws have a 300 hour rating, which is an indication of the quality the manufacture chose to put in the saw. I think there is more to class rating than plastic case or not. 

SawTroll

Quote from: Philbert on January 03, 2014, 09:40:16 PM
So the differences between their 600 and 620 series saws is a different piston and cylinder?

Their website is not very helpful - only shows an $80 MSRP difference.

Thanks.

Philbert

I suspect the 620 has a Shindaiwa designed engine, and the engine always was the weakest point of earlier Echo saws, as they apparently never knew how to port them decently.

Buying a 600 or 590 at this point likely isn't a good idea.

Comparing Echo to Husky is meaningless, and an insult to Husky - as even the Echo saws with Shinny engines can't really compete - different class of saws, entirely.
Information collector.

SawTroll

Quote from: strongsaw on January 03, 2014, 11:47:43 PM
Andre, If I showed someone inexperienced a Husqvarna 460 with a 24" bar and told them it is a home owner type saw, they might think I'm silly. Makes more sense to me to call it what it is, a farm/ranch saw. .......

Todays "farm/ranch" saws just are large homeowner saws - like it or not, but that's how it is!

Also, a 460 is waaaay underpowered for a 24" bar, but it will of course sort of work....
Information collector.

mocoon

Huskys rock but at least the Echo's seem to be getting more durable with the Shindaiwa designs. Shindaiwa saws maybe aren't the fastest but at least they are constructed well. For the average guy who doesn't want to spend a small fortune on a screaming Husky, a durable Echo (Shindaiwa) is a cheaper alternative to a saw that will last a long long time and do what they need. I am not a chainsaw guy, but I own around 100 2 cycle pieces of equipment (mostly Shindaiwa) and they are very durable.

strongsaw

Obviously, I've made a mistake. Most of this is pointless, and not very entertaining and to think I started this thread. Sorry fellows.  Greg

ladylake

Quote from: woodchipper95 on January 03, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
That was a good read... I like the Echo cs500p, best feeling saw in 50cc class IMO, fastest in the cut... no. I would want to do a mm as echo's need to breath a little more... but don't know how. I watched some vids on youtube but don't quite feel comfortable doing it myself.

A muff modd on a CS500p is easy, take the 4 screws off the hold the deflector shield on and pull out the round tube in the muff, open the deflector a little and put back on.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake

Quote from: strongsaw on January 04, 2014, 03:37:57 AM
Obviously, I've made a mistake. Most of this is pointless, and not very entertaining and to think I started this thread. Sorry fellows.  Greg

It never fails, every time someone asks about Echo saws we get a couple that never ran one that start bashing them. You know who you are.     Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

ladylake


Getting back to the original question a CS590 for $360 has to be the best buy out there.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

rburg

I would be interested in your impression of it after you have run a few tankfuls. These saws sound like they would be a good choice for someone who cuts their own firewood.

shelbycharger400

I have a old echo/ Deere 50v, It sat on the shelf for years at parents house, then I used it for a few years and one big tree job.  It's tired but still runs but lacks power.   If  echo issues a saw with an idle adjustment screw with thumb knob like that saw  im interested.   Very cold out id bump up the idle and it worked well,  also if chain was a bit loose dial it down a bit.    saw makers need to bring back the manual oilers.  All the manual saws I've ran,  I've used way less oil

Andyshine77

Quote from: The Ripper on January 03, 2014, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on January 03, 2014, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: ladylake on January 03, 2014, 05:50:10 AM
No matter what the CLAIMED hp of 60cc saws the 60cc Echo cuts right with the other 60cc saws out there with a simple muff modd as most Echo saws come with a real choked up muff.  There are several vids on youtube. Also the CS590 and CS600p have the same part number for both the piston and cylinder, no difference in porting.  The new CS620p has different part numbers.  One other thing if parts are needed the oem cylinder is $102 and the piston kit is $57 which is I'd guess around $100 less than a comparable Husky or Stihl P@C .  Steve

Like I said the cs590 and cs600 are fine saws, but they will not cut with the likes of a 562xp or ms362. A farm boss? yes. I consider any saw with a plastic case a homeowner saw, farm ranch saws are normally just larger, no real difference in design philosophy.

Please don't compare the Poulan's with Chinese made Homelite, Ryobi saws. Poulan'ss are built in Shreveport Louisiana, and are far better built than most inexperienced saw guy's would ever think. In fact the PP5020 is a nice saw, and at $200.00 or less for a 50cc saw, it's a steal.     

I have a PP5020 and the parts are manufactured,at least the aluminum parts from China and assembled in Louisiana. For $200 and then mobbed (really wakes this saw up),they indeed are a decent 50CC home owner saw.

Some of the parts a are made here, and some are not. Stihl does the same thing with many of the products they make in Virginia, particularity the lower end products, but Stihl sure isn't shy about charging a premium for saws with weak stamped connecting rods lol. Even the cheapest Poulan's have forged rods. popcorn_smiley

I didn't see anyone down Echo products in any way. I was simply posting about my experience with their products, and my experiences have always been positive. My 14yo Echo blower has never let me down, it just keeps on running.

Here's a video of a CS600, it was ported buy a friend of mine.

http://youtu.be/7uc8Lc3aDaE     
Andre.

JohnG28

To the OP, don't take a little side track of your topic as a lost cause. We all can get a little off topic or show our personal opinions sometimes, but there is a lot of good info in there also.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

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