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M14 tune up, filing, or new blade?

Started by dustyjay, December 30, 2013, 06:28:21 PM

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dustyjay

I'm hoping some one can help out. Maybe there's a regional M-14 wizard nearby. Here's my issue:

I've worked to get my Foley Belsaw M14 moved, covered, leveled, squared, and set. It was cutting well for a while when I could only cut 1-3 logs at a time. This week my goal was to get cut the ~16 logs I've had waiting, but It's been problematic. On day 1 the shear pin connecting the carriage drive broke, which was no big deal since It was very old and worn. I replaced it on day two and kept sawing. I sawed many 1x8x10' boards and they weren't coming out perfectly square. I shimmed and shimmed and got it right by the end of the day.  Day 3 I started with a very knotty log, and had so much trouble I just slabbed two sides to make a 4" bench with two live edges. The next log was very nice for some more 1x8s, but on my second pass the carriage started going hard about halfway through the cut, and the tractor (Kubota MX5000, 50 HP) lugged, so I backed out quick. The log showed some burn on the inside, and the blade had a significant wobbled I could see at speed and at idle. The blade had this wobble even after I stopped it and restarted it. I thought I messed up the teeth on the knotty log, and quit for the day. Day 4 I sharpened and swaged according to how Ted taught me and what I could read in several small books on saw work, then I started it up and NO wobble! :) I sawed 2 logs into 1X8X10s, some of the best lumber it's ever made. The 3rd log was a knotty nightmare so I decided to slab two sides to make another 4" bench and move on.  On second pass the same jamming happened, to the point where it raised the carriage. I backed off and had a look: more burn and wobble is back.
That's where the story ends and how the mill sits now. I was cutting great after sharpening, but I wonder if I did not sharpen well and then the tooth corners collapsed on hitting the frozen knots? (I am cutting pine)
Have I irreparably damaged the saw by cutting this stuff and inducing the wobble? I wonder about this, as the wobble was not present at the beginning of day 4. It comes and it goes. there is no sun hitting the saw to warm it up , as I know can cause wobble. Environmental conditions do not change.
I suspect that the teeth are old and would not mind replacing them as the next step in my diagnosis.
It is currently running a 40" diameter blade with 24 teeth, either B, F, or 2 1/2 type teeth.

1) Have I irreparably damaged the saw by cutting this stuff and inducing the wobble?
2) Should I buy a new set of teeth and try that next?
3) Should I think about a new saw blade, I as I have no info about the current one, but suspect it is at least 15-20 years old?
4) If I get a new blade, how much to they generally cost and where can I get one?
5) What recommendations for teeth and blades do people have if I want to saw mixed soft and hardwood and want to be able to cut with such precision as to create the timbers for my house?
6) Is anybody willing to come help me get this saw truly dialed in? I anticipate sinking some funds into making it work RIGHT, and lasting a long time. If it does not improve it's not worth much to me.

Thanks All!
Proper prior planning prevents pith poor performance

mad murdock

Is there a saw shop in your area that can inspect the blade for repair/retuning? Sounds like if it doesn't have any signs of cracks, that a good hammering and resharp should get you going.  Do you having an experienced saw do. Check the blade over good will be money well spent, IMO. Is the mill set up with a splitter aft of the blade? Some call it a "sail".
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

loggah

Burton saw in Rumney would have new teeth  and inserts if you need them they are good to deal with. I doubt you need a new blade,if new teeth sharpened correctly dont fix your problem ,you my have to get your saw hammered, Burton has someone that hammers saws also.  Don
Interests: Lombard Log Haulers,Tucker Sno-Cats, Circular Sawmills, Shingle Mills, Maple Syrup Making, Early Construction Equipment, Logging Memorabilia, and Antique Firearms

bandmiller2

It would be worthwile to check your lead, sounds like you may be heating the saw plate.Your saw is probably a "B" pattern clean the shanks and check it should be stamped on them,you may need bits and possibly shanks if the top (bottom of the gullet) of the shank is rounded.As Don says you may need the saw tensioned. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Possum Creek

I am not an expert but have done the same thing. Your teeth are too dull or sharpened at too steep an angle. When you try to force the log through the dull teeth that causes the blade to slow down and lay over causing the log to contact  the saw plate then comes the heating and wobble. I would try new teeth and when sharpening keep a new tooth to look at to keep the angle correct. If that don't help you might need shanks and hammering but I would try the teeth first. I thought my teeth were sharp but the angle was about a 45 deg. it took a lot of filing but now I keep them close to correct angle and it feeds easier and takes less power. And don't worry too much about damaging the smaller saw blades as they are pretty forgiving just don't force the log through the cut it might damage the mill or damage you.   Be careful and  good luck              PC   

bandmiller2

Ole Possum is right hook especially on a smaller diameter saw is very important. If you don't have the right hook angle you are punching wood out instead of cutting it. Its human nature to file the bits blunter and blunter as they wear. Best way is to hold a new bit next to the old one it will tell the tale. Sometimes its tough to troubleshoot circular mills everything is tied together and affects the other, usally its best to start and check everything. Bits are like the butler their the first suspect. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

thurlow

Found an old/similar thread and copied (somewhat modified) my response: 
Have had a M14 w/46 inch blade for about 30 years.  The thing drove me nuts for the first year or so;  every single problem I had was related to the teeth.  It'd saw fine for a few logs and then the blade would heat up and I'd have to quit.  Couldn't saw for an hour without having to swage/sharpen the things;  I walked away from it many-a-time and came back the next day or next week.  (I was a full time farmer/cattleman at the time and could only saw when I had a few 'spare' hours)   Finally bought a box (100) of hard-chrome ones and they ended my problems............totally.  When they were used up, I bought carbide and will never have anything else, but..........to get the benefit from them, your wood must be CLEAN.  As far as knots/different kinds of logs;  I just saw whatever is 'next' on the deck, hard/soft, knots or not........doesn't matter. 
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

dustyjay

Thanks folks. I am going to put a new set of teeth in since something I planned to do anyway. I wanted to get this old wood sawn up first but would rather get this problem solved.

The lead is good at just over 1/32", and there is a splitter, or 'sail,' beyond the saw. When I saw I see the splitter working.

If new teeth don't fix it I will be in touch with Burton Saw about rehammering the blade.

I feel like a bought an old jeep with 200,000 miles. It's time to take care of some deffered maintenance.
Proper prior planning prevents pith poor performance

stihlsawer

I have this bookmarked as I will continue my M14 build over the next few months. I appreciate the knowledge on this forum and the willingness to share. It definitely has helped this newbie. Happy New Year and have a blessed day!

Trever
Trever Jones
Stihl 076 Super, 034, MS 260 PRO, MS 192T
Dolmar 116si
GB 44" lumber mill, Mini mill, Beam machine

Joe Lallande

The same thing happened to my 42" blade a few years ago when I got it hung up in a wet 16" red oak log.  New teeth did not help.  The blade would start out fine until half way into a log and then the whole carriage would raise up. I even took the splitter off. I took the blade to a saw shop and had it was tuned up.  Now it cuts fine.  Good luck.

captain_crunch

new teeth first are you keeping 540 on pto also splitter should only keep board away from saw not rub cant much. Also was told with new teeth and rings blade should be hammered
M-14 Belsaw circle mill,HD-11 Log Loader,TD-14 Crawler,TD-9 Crawler and Ford 2910 Loader Tractor

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