Snake and wave in boards cut.

[Noobsawyer]

Wondering if any of you seasoned sawyers can give me some input on getting rid of the snake and wave on boards and beams.
We are using a Wood-Mizer LT40 Hyd. I've been told there are 3 things that cause this, being speed,blade tension and sharp saws. Well the drive belt is within specs and we run the blade tension at 2500 - 3000 and run slow enough so this should not happen. We have been playing with use of water and find cutting dry works well but even with a fresh Wood-Mizer blade (we use 9 and 10 degree) we still get snake and wave.We saw mostly dough fir. To be honest we are thinking of selling the mill because we can't make it saw well enough to satisfy ourselves let alone customers. Any input will help.
Thanks, Pat

[buzzegray]

If the blade is sharp and the tension is adjusted properly assuming cutting speed isn't too fast with plenty of lubrication, then aren't the guides the only other variable  other than the wood itself?

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Pat.....lets don't give up the ship yet. 

I have the LT40HD. I use the 10°.    4° and 7° for tougher logs.
I saw mostly Southern Yellow Pine, Red and White Oak.

On REALLY dry and HARD Oak, I go with the 4°.
I have never sawn the species of trees in your area.

Are you moving the blade guide on the right side over close to the log to give the blade more stability?

There will be others that will chime in that will be able to help you more than me.

May I make this suggestion. If all else fails.....it won't be long until Woodmizer will start their SERVICE LOOP where they come around to mills (per your request) and go over your mill with a fine tooth comb.

If you've never had this done, call WM and find out if they can come to you during their service trip.

Good Luck to you!

[uler3161]

I would think running without lube would cause more of a problem. We run water + dish soap and keep a spray bottle of diesel handy to spray the blade while in the cut.

Have you tried aligning the roller guides? They have a tool for measuring proper alignment. Not sure what they call it, but it's basically a straight edge that you can clip on and measure down to the bed to see if you're rollers are out of alignment.

We cut doug fir quite often and we buy 10 degree blades, so I think you're fine there.

[slider]

I would do a full alignment next.If your band is not running true you are going to have problems.The manual will take you through it step by step.I hope you have a manual .Also that alignment tool that David spoke of is fairly cheap and very easy to use.Good luck and don't give up.Your mill will do a fine job on that wood you just have to find the culprit that's tripping you up.Also i would start using lube.It keeps the band cool.

[AdamT]

Get the blade alignment tool, if you haven't already. Definitely check to make sure you blade is parallel front to back, on both rollers. Very easy to adjust, however only adjust those bolts a tiny little turn at a time.

The manual shows how this is done.

And check this often, because a slight bump against a log could throw it off.

Don't give up on your mill, I'm sure it's something very simple causing it.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

....... because a slight bump against a log could throw it off.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Is your band remaining completely clean, or is it picking up any kind of residue (on the inside)?  Also, just because a blade is new doesn't mean it's sharp.  Any grit in bark can dull it.  You might want to eliminate this possibility  by doing some test sawing with fresh blades in cants, where the blade is encountering only clean wood.

[Sixacresand]

In addition to the previous post, if it is pine, I slow down at knots.   A wave affects two boards, which means that I messed up several pairs of boards.   :D

[thecfarm]

My Thomas mill saws great. Until I put a spruce on it.  Talk about snake and wave. Lots of bonfire fodder. Need a 7° blade as I learned from here. Good luck to ya.
Did you just get this mill? Ever cut anything else on it?

[Nomad]

     Like several others have said; do a complete alignment on your mill.  It's just amazing how badly an out of adjustment mill can cut!  Doesn't take all that long to do it.  Couple of hours, start to finish.

[scully]

What ever the problem is ,one thing that it is not is the LT 40 ! I'm gonna go with blade guide rollers ! As an educated guess . Either way, a full alighnment will most likely cure the issue .

[redbeard]

Welcome Noobsawyer! We have all gone through the  Mill alignment issues it can be frustrating but it will become real simple the more you check it and do it. Milling Doug fir without lube may not be a good idea there's a lot of heat on the blade.It will shorten the life of blade. Hopefully your not trying to make lumber out of knarly big knot lopsided grain pattern and full of pitch pockets Doug fir logs. Like I use to try and do. ( lesson learned) those logs make better firewood.

[WH_Conley]

Also check your cam follower bearings that the saw head rides to make sure one of them is not trying to lock up then let go. Also, the drive belt on the feed motor. Both of these will let the mill stop and start, usually causing a wave. That is all I can think of in addition to what has already been mentioned.

[kgbond]

Recently I had a very similar problem. For using the timber king 2000 on Yellowpine. When cutting dry there is a buildup on the blade. That buildup is causing was causing heat on my blade and it caused the blade to become loose, as the as the blade expanded with this excess heat it starts to wander. Make sure that you lube system is operating as the others have mentioned an occasional spray of oil or diesel seems to help. I know this is extremely frustrating because of the amount of product that you're losing but don't get don't give up at this point just keep going
Kimball

[MIsawyer]

I agree with the lot an alignment is needed and a guide adjustment and check guide rollers  also how are the wheel belts if you are running belted wheels,  if these are bad can cause a vibration that can cause some bad cuts.  Usually this is pretty noticeable but worth a check.  Also I am a big believer in using biolube as a lubricant for your application I recommend biolube 4 which is formulated for softwoods and works real well, for those of you not familiar there website is www.biolube1.com
Hope this helps

[pineywoods]

Here's something that is real easy to overlook, and can drive you nuts.. Just about any adjustment on an lt40 will affect some other adjustment. Not a problem if the adjustments are done in the prescribed sequence, but a real head scratcher if done in a random manner. Follow the alignment procedure in the manual and it's a piece of cake.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Here's something that is real easy to overlook, and can drive you nuts.. Just about any adjustment on an lt40 will affect some other adjustment. Not a problem if the adjustments are done in the prescribed sequence, but a real head scratcher if done in a random manner. Follow the alignment procedure in the manual and it's a piece of cake.

Well said Piney! I learned the hard way.  :D :D :D

[terrifictimbersllc]

Check your power feed belt tension too, if loose the head may not be moving forward at constant speed.

[YellowHammer]

In addition to others advice, completely remove the blade tension, and extend and retract the blade guide arm and tug on it, hard.  It should be rock solid. 

Also, call WoodMizer, if its under warranty they will come out and help with the problem on their service loop or even try to schedule it before then.  They did something similar for me and it was of great benefit.

YH

[mjl_2007]

I would try a 4 degree or 7 degree blade. I cut a lot of oak, hickory, cherry, elm, pine, and cedar. 9 and 10 degree blades won't cut straight consistently on anything except white pine for me. I cut nasty hard hickory all day long on 4 degrees with very consistent cuts every time.

[SawyerBrown]

Blades may make a difference, but none will cut straight if the alignment is off.  Start with that.  That's my bet.  Be particular, don't say, Oh that's close enough.  Good luck!

[coastlogger]

All of the above. In my circle of associates,all have produced wavey boards to start with. In my own case,and many others, my expectations were way too high.I didnt realize the attention to detail ie setups and SHARP SHARP required to cut straight. Also, watching utubes etc gives a very unrealistic view of how fasy you can feed. My advice, slab the log,put on a new blade with at least 25 tou set on each side and start cutting boards,real slow.If theres any sign of buildup on blade,squirt diesel on it till its gone,feeding VERY slow meanwhile. Once you see the boards are coming out straight,and I think they will, start thinking about what it is youre doing different than before. Im guessing you were feeding too fast with a dull and/or pitchy blade.
Hope this helps

[customsawyer]

Are you losing tension while you are cutting? I haven't run a LT40 in a long time but I remember that I used to have to adjust the tension sometimes while cutting as the blade would warm up and the tension would drop.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Are you losing tension while you are cutting? I haven't run a LT40 in a long time but I remember that I used to have to adjust the tension sometimes while cutting as the blade would warm up and the tension would drop.

Your right Jake.....The lt40's still do. Set it at 3000 and a lot of times it will drop after 2 or 3 cuts.
Add more tension and it will usually stays then.

[Bogue Chitto]

Also check your blade wheel.  Make sure the belt is still good.  Blade should not be on the metal wheel.

[Rockn H]

Like everyone else said, make sure your blade is adjusted right.   I don't know what you're sawing, but one thing that jumped out at me was no lube.   I always use water for lube  and if the wood has a lot of sap, I add a little dish washing soap.   The lube helps cool the blade so it stays sharper longer and the tension stays more stable.  It may help too if you start cutting on the small end.  The blades are less likely to try rise over the knots if you're cutting towards the large end.  Another thing that can cause a lot of trouble is if the tree has a left hand spiral.  I don't know why, but if you look at the bark or grain and it has a left hand spiral to it, the log will very likely have a lot of tension in it.  Those logs have to be turned every cut it seems to try and follow/ release the tension in them. 

I'm not sure how wide or thick the blades are that you're running, but a .42 blade has to be run a lot slower than a .45 blade and so on, or you will get waves.  The first thing I realized with a band mill is it can cut a lot faster than it sometimes should.  Don't give up on your mill, they all have a learning curve..... and some logs just make ugly boards

[5quarter]

a .42 blade has to be run a lot slower than a .45 blade and so on, or you will get waves. 

Do you mean lower rpms for the .042" or slower feed rate?

[slider]

I think he means slowing the feed rate

[Rockn H]

Sorry, I meant slower feed rate.

[ladylake]

  For sure don't blame the mill, any mill set up right with the right blade will cut straight.   Steve

[MSSawmill]

We have had, and still have, this problem on our homemade mill. The culprit is either a dull blade, feed speed, knots in the wood, or more often, roller guides out of alignment. I'm not too familiar with the WoodMizer set up, but something that hasn't been mentioned explicitly is making sure the roller guides are parallel to the deck. In other words, make sure the front AND back of the bearing are touching the blade at all times.

Don't give up! Especially if you got a used mill!

[Magicman]

making sure the roller guides are parallel to the deck. In other words, make sure the front AND back of the bearing are touching the blade at all times. 

"Being parallel" and "touching" are two completely different things.  This LINK might help.

The blade tilt tool is very important to the get the blade exactly parallel to the bed.

[5quarter]

I figured...I just wanted to be sure that that is what the OP meant. .045" blades will hold the plane of the cut a little better due to the added stiffness of the blade body, but also takes a tad more power to run due to the slightly wider kerf.
Doug Fir is notorious for dirty bark. it may not look dirty, but that thick bark can hold a lot of grit that will dull a blade PDQ. Try running something else through the saw and see if you get the same trouble. Also, not enough set in the blade when cutting knotty softwoods will give you the same trouble. The factory set on the blades you're using is likely around 23-25 thousandths. increase it to 30 thousandths and you may get better results. If you're saw is properly aligned as others have mentioned, The problem is most likely with the blade, not the mill. Best of luck and hope you get it cutting straight.

[MSSawmill]

making sure the roller guides are parallel to the deck. In other words, make sure the front AND back of the bearing are touching the blade at all times. 

"Being parallel" and "touching" are two completely different things.  This LINK might help.

The blade tilt tool is very important to the get the blade exactly parallel to the bed.

Ok, good point. The blade and blade guide should be in full contact and should be parallel to the deck, front to back of the blade. Right?

[Magicman]

Paragraph 5.11 in this pdf shows blade guide alignment.  pdf

[Mountain Guardian]

I read through the comments and I did not notice anyone mention the track itself.  Get a good six foot level and set it on your rails and see if your tracks have any bows in them.  This will cause wavy boards in a big way.  When I first set up my track I had it on boards and got it as flat and level as I could, which turns out was not real flat, I eventually poured a concrete slab to set my mill on and made my own track from full length angle iron.

I noticed a few things with my initial trouble.....  If you have a dip of 1/8 inch and you cut flat and then roll the log and cut the other side you can get off by as much as 1/4 inch from surface to surface.  Small wows in the track may seem minor but they have a way of doubling plus when cutting.

Another thing that comes to mind is to check and make sure you are not getting sawdust in your track wheels, even a sixteenth of an inch of sawdust under one and not the others can really throw you out of whack on smooth cutting.  I finally installed a sweeper brush system on my wheels and then welded nails and bent them down into my wheel grooves to dislodge anything that might get stuck in them.  I was having horrible problems with wavy cuts until I went to the concrete pad with full length metal rails and designed the sweeper cleaner unit for my wheels.

Checking your rails and wheels is a simple enough thing and could conceivably cause the wave on your mill the same as it was on mine.

[Noobsawyer]

I want to thank everyone for the great input  !
We did find that the roller guides did not have enough deflection.
Seems to be cutting alot better after adjusting.
We are also getting some 7 degree blades to try.
Once again Thank You All Very Much !!!

[ladylake]

  Thanks for the follow up, too many times we never hear what fixed what.   Those 7° blades will cut better in tough wood than 10° blades .  Steve

[LittleJohn]

BLADES BLADES BLADES; make sure you are running type of blade

If you want to see a blade do some funny stuff take a tooth and half bend it over, or in my case hit something metal (like a dog on the mill) - That blade will dive an 1" in less than a foot   >:(

[thecfarm]

LittleJohn,trying to saw the mill in two is not good. Just ask any of us.  ;D   What kind of mill you have? Where do your logs come from?

[LittleJohn]

I run a older Woodmizer LT40, with my dad - as hobby, occassionally making a few $$$ when people see me dragging the mill behind the truck and need some logs cut, typically as I am filing up the beast at the gas pump.  Most logs are off my dad's 40 or my grandma's 100 acre woods, do some tree felling and removal for people, but mostly word of mouth stuff.

Most of the wood we have been cutting recently, last 5 years were for the old mans retired compound!  A 48' x 80' (4000sf) heated garage/work space and 3000sf house.  All the lumber and shiplap were cut on the old wood mizer, NOTE some plywood, green treat, board over 14' and rafters were purchased; other than that just pulled them off the lumber pile.