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AFTERMARKET PARTS

Started by bandmiller2, May 03, 2014, 07:27:55 AM

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bandmiller2

Seems aftermarket parts get a bum rap here, OEM parts are priced to steer you into buying a new saw. I have a husky 365 I bought for $3.50 for parts it was flat wore out. The jug was good ordered a new piston and rings from Baileys. Split the case and measured the seals and got the seals and bearings from a auto parts distributor. DanG saw has been running strong for eight years. A fellow fire mechanic gave me a like new Husky 61 some naughty boy took home and ran straight gas. Baileys jug and piston, new saw. I get fissed with the tuck dealers take on you for the holy grail of OEM. Cantankerous old duffer, your mileage may vary. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

celliott

Yup, OEM is very pricey. Some things\saws you don't have aftermarket options, some saws you can basically build a new saw out of aftermarket parts. The 272xp has aftermarket crankcases, fuel tank, jug, crank, etc. etc.  Now, the quality of some parts may come into question, but plastics and such, no big deal. Pistons, meteor seems to be the most preferred aftermarket option.
I have a meteor piston in a 385xp right now, one in a 242xp I rebuilt, they're running just fine. If my other saws need a piston, that's what they'll get, meteor.
Seals and bearings, yup, you can source them if you look around.

A route I've taken a few times is used OEM parts. Priced well, and most often, work just fine, just a little dirty. Gotten a few used OEM parts from the chainsawr.
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

webgal

Nice thing about Bailey's NWP line is the one year warranty vs the OEM warranty of 30 days. Not only less expensive, but we back that up with a top knotch tech support.
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

jargo432

I'd love to find an old saw and rebuild it.  Problem around here is they are hard to find.  (not exactly a logging part of the country) I think I'll call the guy at the city dump and ask him to watch out for one for me.  (or if any of you guys have a junker collecting dust and want to get rid of it.... :D )

Speaking of parts I just got some in the mail.  I put a new clutch drum, air filter, and fuel cap on my Poulan.  Man that thing must have overheard me saying I was saving for a Stilh because it's been running perfect.  The only problem I have is finding some no ethanol gas.  The station that I was buying it from quit carrying it.
Jack of all trades.

bandmiller2

Jargo, you may try a dealership that sells saws or a farm dealer that sells saws many times they will take a saw in trade just to sell a new one and throw it in the junk trailer. I've found several saw that way. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

weimedog

I've had the best luck with tired saws salvaging OEM Cylinders with Meteor or OEM pistons. More often than not the issue with used OEM cylinders is that aluminum transfer to the cylinder wall. There are a pile of threads out there discussing the best way to salvage those scuffed cylinders.

Aftermarket? It's a crap shoot. I've had good luck with an eBay seller from Hong Cong... (did an entire video series building and running a saw built with those parts....and its still going strong) Sells essentially the same stuff your "box brand" cylinders sell but at a lower price point. Also have had a mixed bag with some "famous name" aftermarket cylinders, most recently one that had the rings hang in the intake port. Catastrophic failure.  But, not to worry; they will replace the part. SO when they work; they are a huge cost savings. When they don't work... your usually just out labor and time. For most of us with multiple saws.... that's not a risk. For repair shops it is and the reputation hit from a failed repair can cost sales.... So depending on what and where you are on the saw stack, aftermarket stuff is either the best thing since sliced bread, or a risk that's not worth taking.

For me?  I have fun with them. Can test idea's and theory's at a much lower cost than if I hacked up 200plus dollar OEM stuff.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

sharkey

Ive watched all your vids Weimedog!  Couldnt agree with you more.  One good thing that is happening is the oem folks are beginning to lower their prices.  Maybe not on every single model just yet, but know that they are feeling the heat.  When Baileys gets their Meteor cylinders out on the market things will change for the better even more.     

Spike60

Quote from: sharkey on May 03, 2014, 11:08:56 PM
Ive watched all your vids Weimedog!  Couldnt agree with you more.  One good thing that is happening is the oem folks are beginning to lower their prices.  Maybe not on every single model just yet, but know that they are feeling the heat.  When Baileys gets their Meteor cylinders out on the market things will change for the better even more.   

This really not correct at all. For one thing, prices are not coming down. Beginning of the year saw a price increase on all Husky jugs. They are not "feeling the heat" in any way. Trust me on this point. I'm one of the few guys who live in both worlds here. Both the enthusiast/hobby world here on the saw sites and also in the real everyday world in my own store. There is a huge and very real disconnect between those two realities.

I do fully understand the sentiment that most of you have regarding OEM prices and the feeling that you are getting hosed in a system that you feel is stacked against you. So, AM prices allow you to beat that system.

I've been sharing in Weimedog's experiments and my comclusions are a little different, as I do not see ANY of the Asian sources as being of consistant enough quality to use in my store. Too many middle men clouding the discussion, and with the Asian crap, the name on the box has little if anything to do with the name on the part. Just a bunch of guys re-boxing and selling the same crap. Sometimes you can't even trust the box will have the same part. Weimedog and I each bought a Forester 372 kit. Same part number, a few weeks apart, yet each kit was from a different source. Mine runs OK, his blows up. Which kit is representative of that Forester part number? What's going to be in the next box? I ordered a Mako 372, and guess what? It's the same "Pacme" labeled jug that Walt got in a Forester box, with the same ring hang up on the intake port. Sent it back and Tilton is looking into it. 272 kits on the other hand, from both Forester and Mako look like nice stuff. But it's all a crap shoot and regardless of what the various sellers are saying about their fake "brands", most of this stuff is coming from the same few sources "over there". It's all a little bit of a scam IMO. Creating fake brands selling the same junk in different boxes at prices that are all over the map. Talk about a system that's stacked against you! This is far more a hosing of the customer than what's going on with OEM parts.

This not the case with the European stuff. A Meteor is a Meteor. A Tecomec is a Tecomec. Same way a Mahle is a Mahle. But the European kits really offer me no significant price advantage over OEM, so I mostly stick to the real stuff in the store.

I do sell the OEM kits at a fair price, and I look at this all from a cost standpoint. My cost on and OEM 372 kit is $100 more than my whiolesale cost on a Mako or Forester kit. For a $100 difference, OEM is the better way to go IMO. And my customers want the OEM anyway. My shop has a great reputation and I won't compromise that by using Chinese AM junk.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

weimedog

Have to tweak my friend here a little... :) He's talking about our collective experience with cylinders with that last post. There is a whole host of other AM parts that in my opinion ARE viable options to OEM in certain cases. For example plastic covers. Finding plastic for older Husqvarna's can both be frustrating and expensive. The aftermarket plastic can be the difference between a good running saw and something you have to eBay away!

Conversely things like air filters... Bob had fun with one I have from a Chinese source. Certainly sub par. Again with tank/handles. There is more than a few options in the aftermarket world, some ok and some not very good. I have used a less than OEM quality tank handle on one of my project saws, and even though it's obviously a cut rate knock off part, it works! So it's a crap shoot.

I still think a good dealer is a good place to start as in Bob's case, they have their reputation on the line when selling parts. Shop's in that frame of mind are not motivated to sell junk. The better dealers like that pass a saving to you on those AM parts AND do the "sorting" through the crap to find those better AM options. That's a huge value add for a hobbyist or a pro! BUT having said that, my LOCAL dealer tried to sell me AM parts for OEM prices!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

webgal

Since Bailey's was named a couple of posts back concerning our AM parts, I happened to be privvy to the process we did to develop the NWP. We didn't search Alibaba and go with the low bidder. We did diagrams visited the manufacturer, saw their operations. When they sent a sample we checked specs so close you't think we're checking the BMI on a model! After it met our specs we handed out some to test. Once satisfied then got production going. It is a LONG process. It would be nice that all the aftermarkets put there took the care and pride we do. Bailey's is built on the knowledge that what we sell is often our customer's livelihood and take it seriously. I know no one said anything bad about Bailey's in this thread, but just want the word out how our NWPs stack up against those that are only looking at their own bottom line and not the customer's.
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

weimedog

We were taking bets to see how long it would take for you to show up...:)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

And BTW, I plan to do a comparison with the NWP cylinders as time allows. Compare them to some of the other AM cylinders. I've actually had experience with a 272 NWP cylinder. It was a nice casting but got roasted....and it had NOTHING to do with the NWP part! A funny story. A guy I work with had a stuck 272 he wanted rebuilt. I told him to get what he wanted for a Cylinder and I would put it on the saw. He bought one from Bailey's... and it was a nice looking part. Built the saw....sent him on his way....and two weeks later he brought it back toasted...again. So my first instinct was...what did I do wrong??? So I tore it down....and it was black and I mean BLACK inside. The piston was , there are this ash like stuff every where from cylinder to exhaust. So then I'm wondering....(Inappropriate language edited by admins)!!! The cylinder/piston looked scuffed but wasn't the issue, I had it installed with a gasket and there was no apparent issue there..... So  asked the guy: What are you using for fuel and oil??

He said: Gas. .... and......

Wolfs head.

Wolf's Head?? I I asked...Wolf's Head Oil? When and where did you get that? I didn't know they sold two stroke oil!

He said...I had a can on the shelf a while. Thought I needed to use it for something...... so I mixed it up and burned it! (and the saw!)

How long was it sitting there Donny??

Oh I can't remember now.... it's been a few years!

It was motor oil. 30wt. probably a relic from the 60's. No kidding. So the OTHER player out there is the guy using these parts! BTW He now only uses Klotz.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

webgal

 :DI Hate having to play interrogator too. My first question is, did you lend it to a friend?

Yeah, I keep showing up. Who won the bet?

Purdy darn early out here in CA. Still a walk of fog over the marshy spots and the sun hasn't come over the hill yet.
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Spike60

 8)  I could go on and on about this. Probably will tonight, but I've got plenty to do here in the store. Some of these parts do work fine, and external bits are a little easier to do right.

I also think that AM pistons are usually pretty decent for that same reason. And likely the cheapest way to go of all the rebuild options. After all, most dead saws will come with a cylinder, and the majority of the time that cylinder can be salvaged. A refinished OEM jug is a FAR better option than an AM top end, using either an OEM or AM piston.

I also have to remark here that it's a wonder my Forester 372 kit runs as good as it does, or even at all for that matter. If you look up the exhaust port it's so out of wack that you'd swear the cylinder was on crooked. No real contour to the exhaust port roof and it will open a good 2mm on the left before it begins to open on the right side. What kind of port timing is that called?  :D

But here again, I'll correct myself: I should NOT be calling that a "forester" kit. It's an unmarked kit in a Forester box, again from a different source than the one Walt got, in the same box with the same part number. Calling it a Forester plays into the same "brand language" game that all of these re-sellers are using to confuse us. Creating these phony brands selling the same stuff in different boxes is where all of these vendors, jobbers, and re-sellers fabricate the mist that we have trouble seeing through. I have identified at least 3, maybe 4 sources of cylinders that are sold under the same brand. You could open a box and get a "pacme", a "star gry", or something with no markings on it. It's like Cracker Jacks; a surprise in every box. THIS is the central point in my argument that there is a bit of a scam going on here. Not necessarily intentional, but there's so much BS with this Asian stuff that we never get to see the man behind the curtain. The many layers that exist in the marketing of these cylinders from the casting houses making them til they get to your work bench makes that impossible. My suppliers were just as baffled as I was. My questions received answers like "What's a pacme?" "What's a Star Gry?" "We get these from our vendor in Australia" "They tell us they have people on the ground in the factories checking quality". Nobody's got a clue what's going on.

Another example: Ordered 2 of the 372 big bore kits with that dark finish on them that are likely all coming from the same place. Same company, same part number, same pretty box. One came with the split ring style piston rings. Lasted about 2 minutes and destroyed itself. Total waste. Other kit had standard rings and runs fine. Consistency just isn't there.

Also, before someone throws this out there, I do not have an OEM parts agenda. When Walt and I started messing with this stuff my objective was to find a reliable source of this stuff to use on less expensive saws such as 55's or what not that are almost never rebuilt. I'm not saying that none of them work, as many do. Just that the consistency doesn't exist for a real shop environment, but is fine for the DIY guy who owns multiple saws.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Al_Smith

So far in my little life I've always been able to find a decent used cylinder if I needed one . I have used Meteor pistons and Caber rings with good success .

Now that is reference to Stihl products and obviously parts as such the bearings and seals are OEM ,dealer only .( I have a darned good dealer  ;)).

What few Husqvarnas I've worked on only required seals and you can those after market from about any supplier .

The antiques ,McCulloch etc parts are where you find them .Either NOS or salvaged from a donor machine .Seals and bearings for the most part are standard SAE sizes .It just requires a little research to sort it out with cross referencing .

weimedog

Quote from: webgal on May 05, 2014, 09:52:34 AM
:DI Hate having to play interrogator too. My first question is, did you lend it to a friend?

Yeah, I keep showing up. Who won the bet?

Purdy darn early out here in CA. Still a walk of fog over the marshy spots and the sun hasn't come over the hill yet.

You are welcome to come visit out here! Life starts 4 hours sooner! (I think I lost the bet BTW...still in negotiations. )

AND I got a warning for inappropriate language. Those three letters in the right order earned me that. The F and T and W in reverse order. Actually one of the reasons I really like this forum is they do in fact keep things family clean! Sorry...and your rght moderator.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

goose63

So what is the best way to get the cylinder off the piston I took the bolts out and its stuck tight fly wheel will turn some oh its a 2171
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

weimedog

Quote from: goose63 on May 05, 2014, 11:18:55 AM
So what is the best way to get the cylinder off the piston I took the bolts out and its stuck tight fly wheel will turn some oh its a 2171

WebGal... Sounds like you have a customer here....
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

webgal

Quote from: goose63 on May 05, 2014, 11:18:55 AM
So what is the best way to get the cylinder off the piston I took the bolts out and its stuck tight fly wheel will turn some oh its a 2171
Since you probably don't keep a butter knife in the shop like I do  :D, try a couple of carefully placed large flat head screwdrivers. (Mechanics suggestion).

weimedog: I'm not a mechanic, but am pretty handy on electrical, water pipes and minor tractor repair.
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

weimedog

Quote from: webgal on May 05, 2014, 12:30:30 PM
Quote from: goose63 on May 05, 2014, 11:18:55 AM
So what is the best way to get the cylinder off the piston I took the bolts out and its stuck tight fly wheel will turn some oh its a 2171
Since you probably don't keep a butter knife in the shop like I do  :D, try a couple of carefully placed large flat head screwdrivers. (Mechanics suggestion).

weimedog: I'm not a mechanic, but am pretty handy on electrical, water pipes and minor tractor repair.

lol! I was thinking about the top end of that Jonsered! ... If you have to hammer out a piston, the cylinder is likely toast! A Bailey's Big Bore (BBB??) for a 372 might be in order! (2171=372)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

goose63

I have not split the case yet to get crank and rod out never had one apart be for so it will be a learning proses for me
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

goose63

I have never taken one apart be for so this is a learning proses for me but was sure it would need all new parts
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Al_Smith

Pull the plug and dump a bunch of good penetrating oil in the cylinder .Might work,might not .

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