Chasing some info on bandsaw blades

[Ed.]

Hi Guys, I am looking for some info on bandsaw blades so hoping the you fine gents have the answers.

I am contemplating building a bandsaw mill next year if time and finances permit and don't know too much about the blades ect.  so my questions are as follows based on if you were building one for yourself using 20"-24" wheels and using say about a 13-16HP 4 stroke motor.

1) What size width and type of blade would you guys recommend? (m42 or carbide tipped).

As just doing a quick search they seem to come in 3/4"-1.5" widths,

2) So would one blade width be better than another and what are the implications of using a small width blade as against a larger width blade?

3) If the wood to be cut was green but very dense Eucalypt hardwood what speed (ft/minute) should the blade ideally travel at and how many teeth per inch.

4) Is spraying the blade with water required to cool it?

5) Would a metal bandsaw blade with 3 tungsten carbide TPI work be prefered, or is not required/neccessary?

The only reason I am also asking about the carbide tipped metal blades is that I saw an advert for one on the web and the seller was claiming that some of his customers were getting good results on slabbing wood, and with carbide being much harder than the m42, it would cut down on the sharpening required however it would also make a thicker cut than the regular wood blades. Have any of you guys tried it?

Cheers

Ed.

[opticsguy]

There are many many posts about BS blades, and almost all are about non-carbide tipped blades.  I never see any one here using them, so my guess is price versus performance, they are not a good deal.

[JustinW_NZ]

Hi there

1.5" bands and a well set up mill and sharp bands will deal to euc's.
I run a woodmizer lt40 here in nz and saw lots of eucs.
The new woodmizer 7" turbo bands are good too.

Cheers
Justin

[barbender]

13-16hp is probably a little under powered for the hard dense woods you have. I'd shoot for 25 at least.

[5quarter]

Smart thinking Ed... Build the head rig around the saw blade. never sawn eucs so I can't recommend a particular blade, but I would recommend as much HP as you can afford. I'd build on an 1½" platform with a minimum 24" bandwheels, giving the saw as much beam strength as you can as well as longer blade life. Also, I would use hardened steel over carbide as you can put a keener edge on the steel. doesn't hold up as long, but if sharpen your own blades and don't run them dull, you'll probably get better cuts and be $$  ahead.any pictures you can post would be great.

[JustinW_NZ]

Good point about power, if commercial you want like 30hp diesel little petrols would be painful I think.

Cheers
Justin

[Ed.]

Thanks guys, I don't need a huge band saw like you fellas need in the USA, Canada and  NZ ect.  as the trees I can access are pretty tiny compared to what you have, I'm just thinking about a band saw to cut down the noise (comparing it to a chainsaw mill, Neighbours are only 30m away). Hence I would think that the 13-16HP would suit my budget and the size I want. However I don't know what impact the different  blade sizes would have, what speed they should run at, if they need to be cooled etc. Judging by the responses so far a wider blade seems to be preferred  but why? I have taken on board the thing about the Carbide blades cost more than their benefits so not going to worry about them and stick to M42 steel.

Just trying to get all my facts so should I proceed I don't have to wait further to get details. It won't be used commercially and it is just a hobby of mine. But a 13-16hp motor pulling a 1mm thick blade would logically have to significantly cut faster and easier than my 6hp Husky 372 with a 8mm or so cut and easy enough to put a decent muffler on a 4 stroke to make it less noisy.

Cheers

Ed.

[BBTom]

if you stick to the small power, then in my opinion- you should run blades with a tooth spacing of 1" or more, your band should be 1-1/4", thickness should be .042" to .045", and you should use a hook angle of 4 to 6 degrees.

Typical bandspeed is 5000 feet per minute.

The water on the band is mostly to keep the band clean, if it is clean it will stay cool until it is dull.

Good luck on your build. It may be less expensive to have someone come in and cut for you.

[bandmiller2]

Ed,for light duty and minimal power you would probably be best served with a 1 1/4" band of a length that is commonly used in your area.They can make up any length but its handier to use a common standard length.Good luck mate. Frank C.

[Ed.]

Thanks for the info guys, that should give me something to work with.  If I do build it I will do so with the ability to stand the band vertically so it will have other uses in my shed as well.

Although it would be cheaper to get someone in to slab for the first couple of times, but after that it would be cheaper for me to build one and then I have it for as long as I like, or if I do decide that I have had enough then I could probably  sell it and be able to recover my outlay, so it make sense to me to make one.

Cheers

Ed.

[thecfarm]

I sure don't know about electric motors,but they are quiet. I have no idea about if you're going hyds are not. But I would go with the ability to cut a 20 foot log. If you don't need the longer track,it's not in the way,but if needed you are all smiles.

[hackberry jake]

if you stick to the small power, then in my opinion- you should run blades with a tooth spacing of 1" or more.

I believe it is just the opposite. Large tooth spacing is for larger horsepower mills. The further the teeth are spaced, the bigger the bite each tooth takes. And he mentioned he was sawing mainly smaller logs, so I would reccomend 3/4" or less tooth spacing. I started with 3/4" spaced blades back when I just had 13 hp and they worked well. Since I moved up to 20 hp I have switched to 7/8" spacing and they are definately more aggressive.

[beenthere]

IIRC, when hp is is found to be limited on circle mills and the tooth bite too small that fine sawdust spills from the gullet, it works to remove half the teeth.
Get bigger chips and better sawing.

A bit opposite maybe with a bandsaw? or not?

[hackberry jake]

It's hard to compare circles to bands as far as tooth spacing is concerned because of tooth speed. Swing mills can cut extremely hard woods with only 5 or 6 teeth. If a band only had five or six teeth it would be awefully grabby. Bands dont have the stiffness of circle saws or the momentum. Also the harder the substance that is being cut will require smaller tooth spacing. Look at metal cutting band saws.

[5quarter]

Jakes right...low HP: narrower tooth spacing. High HP: wider tooth spacing. Wider, thicker bands require a longer gullet while thinner, narrower bands require a shorter gullet. Look at any chart showing available blade sizes and you'll notice that the larger the band, the greater the tooth spacing. wider bands have longer tooth spacing to accommodate more sawdust as a result of greater feed speeds. Metal cutting though is not a good analogy as the blade geometry, composition and band speeds are vastly different.   
Ed...scratch my previous comments about more hp. I imagined that you'd be cutting some big ole ironbark, blue box etc... If you'll just be sawing small stuff then your HP range should be fine.
Also, wider, thicker bands have a greater beam strength and tend to hold true in the cut better, especially in wide cuts and/or when running at higher feed rates. Takes more ponies and bigger bandwheels to get the most out of them though.

[Ed.]

I sure don't know about electric motors,but they are quiet. I have no idea about if you're going hyds are not. But I would go with the ability to cut a 20 foot log. If you don't need the longer track,it's not in the way,but if needed you are all smiles.

I thought about using an electric motor as it would be much cheaper, quieter and simpler to build, the downside is that I would be restricted to cutting at home only where I have the 3 phase power, so therefore I would not be able to take it out bush. As for length, at the moment I only need to cut 2.3m logs so I will most likely use a 4m track as I will no doubt loose about 75cm for the band saw frame itself but it would be easy enough to build it so I could add another 4m track as required.

Once I decide to go ahead and I can get the time to build it, it will most likely be around June-July, but will most likely start collecting stuff for it around March-April, so pics will be much later. The hardest part I anticipate will be making the wheels, will be keeping an eye out for used ones or some type that I can modify but if not, my metal lathe can swing a 20" wheel so will build them. I will also go and have a look at some commercially built ones to get some ideas. I have some Ideas already as to how to build it but no doubt there are  better ways than I have thought of. There is a large farm expo here around that time and they will have quite a few of these sort of machines on display and working there.

I got some prices on getting someone to come out to mill it for me and the price varied from AU$275/cubic meter to AU$500 minimum charge so 2 or 3 sessions and the mill material cost would have paid for itself!

Cheers

Ed.

[bandmiller2]

Ed,most portable mills grow roots.My homebuilt bandmill started portable with a Wisconsin gasoline engine and worked well.I now power it with a 15 hp three phase electric and I'll never go back unless I have to.With electric you can have your mill in a comfy shed with creature comforts like a fan, heat, good lights a refridge for frostys est. but the biggies are low noise and no exhaust fumes.not to mention the economy and safety factor.I saved the engine and could convert back if need be,you can design it to go boath ways.Wheels 20" will do fine at least half the mills in use use 19/20" wheels,prehaps 24" are better even more on some mills but you don't really need them and its that many more teeth to set and grind.I used Browning single belt 19.5" sheves on my mill with taperlock,probibly you could use multiple groove sheve running the band belt on the front and rear grooves to drive.You will enjoy the build just think it out well and don't skimp on the materials.start right out with log turner and power feed with as much hydraulic as possible. Lots of information on this forum. Frank C.

[Banjo picker]

Don't think it has been mentioned, but as the width, thickness, and length go up so does the price....If you are going to be cutting small stuff the large band wheels will just cost you more money... Large band wheels are needed to keep the .050 and such bands from turning such a sharp curve... narrower and thinner bands will do well on smaller wheels... Banjo

[Dan Sawyer]

Some very good feedback above.  The HP you mention should be plenty.  You should go with an 1-1/4" blade based on the HP and size wheels you mention above.  The wider a blade is the more beam strength the blade will give which will allow for straighter cuts.  Wider blades will also allow you to cut woods that are more difficult to cut.  Carbide tipped blades are used when the goal is finish or the wood species being cut are extremely difficult to cut like Teak.  I don't think your application will need a carbide tipped blade.  These blades are also much more expensive and should only be used when cutting woods that are clean as a carbide tip is much more brittle.  M42 is a step up from carbon blades and will give you a good finish and much longer life, but it is also about three to four times the price of a carbon blade and if it breaks when hitting a nail, you are out a lot more money.  I think carbon blades are your best bet.  You should stick to a 3/4" or 7/8" tooth spacing as Jake mentions for all the reasons he mentions.  Bigger tooth spacing is for bigger mills when cutting bigger pieces of wood / material.  Fine tooth configurations are better for smaller mills and when cutting smaller pieces of material as you will be cutting. 

Your on the right track.  Best of luck and Happy New Year.

Dan 

[Ed.]

Thanks guys for all your info, much appreciated, and a Happy New Year to you all.

Cheers

Ed

[Lud]

I've had a 13hp manual mill for the last 7 years for mostly private use and it's worked fine. Push slower on the big, hard logs.   Reading this forum is a great source of info.  My mill uses the 1 1/4 " blades on a couple of emergency car tires.  It's a fine system  and paid for itself in no time. 

Since you're building,  Use the Search function here and research the many homebuilts that have been written up.  There's a lot of subtle issues for lifting the head, blade guides, and guards.   You want guards that swing away or disconnect easily as you change blades often as they dull.  I touch up my blades with a rig I built as I suffer from the cheap gene but you can send them off for resharp  or buy a pricey rig that the pros all swear by.  It's all relative the size that's right for you.

You do need a fair amount of support equipment.  Space to store logs and cut lumber.  Hauling and lifting equipment makes sawing more enjoyable and saves the body.  A 60" Logrite cant hook can be your best friend.  Opening up a log is like a kid at Christmas- you get to see what's inside!  Always amazing.

Good luck and welcome aboard! 8)