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Central Boiler 6048 installation.

Started by Dave Shepard, December 23, 2013, 07:30:24 PM

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Dave Shepard

I just purchased a used 6048, and have a couple of questions regarding both the machine and the piping used for OWBs. I can't find a btu/hour rating for the 6048. I know they used to list this years ago, but they seem to be keeping it a secret these days. Does anybody know how many btu's I can expect to draw off of this size boiler an hour?

Second is the Pex tubing. Central offers their own ThermoPex tubing in 1" and 1.25" diameters, and PexFlex offers dual insulated tubing in a variety of sizes. Any advice and where to buy either would be appreciated. Thanks. (I'm sure I'll have more questions later)
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bear_hunter

I just installed the same set-up this fall. Find your local dealer, he should have the Thermopex in stock. It is expensive but it is definitely worth it. I used 1" on mine with a 145,000 btu heat exchanger. Our house is a little over 2500 sq.ft. It is insulated pretty decent and I have no trouble keeping it 70 degrees.

doctorb

The question is not what diameter pex you need, the question is to estimate the amount of energy you need to deliver to your house.  First, what is the distance going to be from the house to the OWB?  the longer the distance, the larger diameter Pex you should use.  My run is long, about 300', and I used 1.25".  I have a large house and need the ability to move the heat quickly.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Holmes

 You should use insulated pex tubing. Uninsulated piping in the ground could cost you a few cords of wasted heat every year.    Basically the more the pex is insulated the less heat is wasted.
Think like a farmer.

albirk

My 5648 = maximum Btu...500,000 as someone else said find a dealer to get the thermo pex it is pricy but worth the money it is $14 PLUS A FOOT

coxy

we put the thermo pex on top of the ground for my dad 4years ago it was only going to be temp but you know how that goes   the snow never melts off it so why do the digging :D :D

Dave Shepard

For now, the boiler will be about 30 feet from my garage, but may get moved later if I have the money for more pipe. The two pipes I mentioned are both two pipes inside a larger pipe with insulation around them.

I don't know the exact requirements of my house, but I don't want to make the mistake of running too small of a line. A friend did that with his 6048. It came with a piece of 3/4" line and he can't move enough to keep his wind tunnel log cabin warm. I also need to heat the two car garage.

What kind of stove pipe does a Central use? It looks like standard 8" insulated pipe would work, which is handy, as I have a T and 3 sections of pipe that I won't need in the garage if I install an outside boiler.
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Dave Shepard

And another question. I am going to use a heat exchanger in my basement to hook the OWB to the oil boiler. I plan on running just water in the OWB, no anti-freeze. Is this typical, and are there additives other than AF to put in the OWB water?
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bear_hunter

There is a corrosion inhibitor that you need to use in the water in the boiler.

Dave Shepard

That's what I thought. Is that from Central only? I think I might be going to the Central dealer in the next week or so.
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thecfarm

I did not install mine. This is how the back of my Heatmor looks. I could have 3 zones on mine. I think I have the 1 inch lines,inside is ¾.


 

There are a view more pictures in my gallery,outdoor furnace is the album name.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Dave Shepard

Finally got a chance to go and get my boiler. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to get it off the truck. :D

Does anybody know of a chart that lists how many btus per hour a given size pipe can move at a specified gpm and temperature?

Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

UN Hooker

Dave
  Don't assume the 8" pipes you have will fit the CB.  The ones I had, the ID was the same but the OD was 1/4" smaller. I had to do some modifications to make them work.
      UN
Retired Toolmaker/Moldmaker
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Holmes

  Taco has flow charts. They are used to size the pump to deliver the required gpm needed based on pipe size and head {friction loss}. A 11/4" pipe with a flow of 16 gpm will be 160,000 btu's, a 11/2" pipe at 24gpm is 240,000 btu's.  Head is figured on overall length of pipe and its friction loss , it has nothing to do with height.
Think like a farmer.

Dave Shepard

I got my heat exchanger today. It's a little big, but that's better than a little too small. Best of all, it's free. :) Going to start getting my fittings list together tomorrow, then I'm going to get all my parts and pipe and start installing.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

coxy

Quote from: Dave Shepard on January 28, 2014, 08:15:02 PM
I got my heat exchanger today. It's a little big, but that's better than a little too small. Best of all, it's free. :) Going to start getting my fittings list together tomorrow, then I'm going to get all my parts and pipe and start installing.
now comes the hard part  well not so much these days when I did mine they had no easy fittings these shark bites are the best they were made for dummys  like me :D :D

WmFritz

Hurry and fire that thing up, Dave. There's still plenty of winter left to save some of that oil money.  splitwood_smiley
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Dave Shepard

So, next question. I'm buying 1" ThermoPEX from the Central dealer to go from the boiler to the heat exchanger. The fittings on the boiler are all 3/4" pipe thread, but the previous installation was also 1" PEX. Is this momentary restriction ok? The manual doesn't mention this specifically, but they do have two different parts lists, one for 3/4" fittings and one for 1 1/4" fittings, and they only mention using 1" T PEX, or 1 1/4" T PEX pipe. I know that 1" PEX is actually more like 7/8" ID, so I"m thinking the momentary restriction is going to be ok.

Here, you can see the original installation with a piece of 1" PEX pipe on the return.

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Holmes

 If you think you need all the btu's that boiler will make then I would increase those 3/4" pipes to 1" or 11/4".  I look at this as a professional and it would be wrong for me to undersize the piping and make it so you can not get all the heat from your boiler.    If the tappings are 3/4" in the boiler then leave the 3/4 connections.
Think like a farmer.

petefrom bearswamp

Dave,
I think from my physics class many years ago Bernuli's principal I think rules that a very short restriction will not affect flow as speed thru the restriction increases and volume is maintained.
Perhaps a hydraulic engineer will chime in and either confirm this or tell me I am full of it.
DoctorB How much heat loss do you have with your long run?
My initial installation was 125 feet and I lost 9 degrees.
This was with the insulated pipe furnished by the Taylor furmace folks.
It was not buried very deep and the snow melted where the line was.
I only used this system for 3 winters as I kept warm carrying wood to the Taylor not to mention putting the years wood up.
Pete

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Dave Shepard

The Central has 3/4" and 1 1/4" tappings. These fittings are in the 3/4" tappings.

Pete, that was my recollection as well, although I have no recollection of Bernuli. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

albirk

Dave you are correct 3/4" pipe thread = 1" pex I have 150' of 1" thero pex from the stove to the house the water is being pushed by a taco 009 pump once in the house I built a manifold out of 3/4" tees and ball valves to move the water three different ways (my house was 1000 sq' added on 1500 sq' plus 32x38 garage) so I have 3 furnaces and 2 water heaters the 1" pex heats it all 73 in the house 75 in the garage plus all the hot water you want

MNBobcat

One of the mistakes a lot of people make is they run everything inside the house in series.  So imagine you invest in 1 1/4" pex because you want a high rate of flow and the high rate of flow allows you to pull more BTUs from the boiler.  Then you run your  pex runs to the heat exchanger in your furnace where it gets reduced to most likely below 3/4".  You've just killed most of the benefit from running the 1 1/4 pex.  You did get some benefit with less head on the system but your rate of flow isn't what you would expect.

What I did was ran 1 1/4" from my boiler to my house.  It transitions to 1 1/4" copper in the house and it makes a loop and goes back out to the boiler.  So my entire loop is 1 1/4" with only four 90 degree fittings to form the loop in the house.  I've lost virtually no rate of flow at all.  Then on one side of that 1 1/4" loop I have a number of closely spaced Tees (basically a 1 1/4" manifold) and I have a separate loop running to my furnace and another loop running to my garage and another loop running to a HX for my hot water.  Each of those loops has its own pump. 

So when the heat for the furnace kicks on it pulls water off that 1 1/4" loop and pumps it through 1" pex to my furnace HX and then dumps it back into the 1 1/4" loop.  That means my garage heater can also kick on and it has full access to that 1 1/4" loop at the same time as my house furnace.

I also installed my heat exchanger in the furnace upside down.  The hot water enters the hx at the top and the cooler water comes out the bottom.  That's backwards from the recommended method.  But think about it....if your hot water enters the bottom of the HX that's where the cold return air first touches the hx and begin's to warm.   That air begins to warm and when it exits it the top of the HX its being exposed to cooler temperatures because your outlet water is always cooler than the inlet water.    In my system, the cooler temps are at the bottom of the hx and the air begins to warm and just as it leaves the HX its exposed to the hottest temperature because that's the inlet for my hot water.  So you get more efficiency out of the HX by installing it the way I did.  The reason they recommend the inlet on the bottom is to eliminate air pockets in the HX.  Not because its more efficient.

None of my stuff is in series.

The other thing I did was use grundfos pumps instead of Taco.  The grundfos pumps have 3 speed adjustments for fine tuning your system.  My main pump is in the house, not at the boiler.  Its installed near the basement floor so it takes advantage of the water dropping towards the pump to improve efficiency.  If I have a pump go out, I can change it in the warmth of my home rather than standing in the cold out by the boiler.  I can also add water to the system from in the house.

Holmes

 MNBobcat  That sounds like a very well designed system.
Think like a farmer.

Dave Shepard

I won't be loosing much at my heat exchanger, it has 2" ports on it. :D Due to the need for a little simplicity, and economy, I will be running the return from the boiler through a Modine in my garage. It also is way oversized, and will have constant water circulation in the winter, and the fan will be on a thermostat.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

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