What kind of varnish should I use?

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 02:44:54 AM

Hi folks. Well I've started a new little business that started out as a sideline but looks like it might end up as full time since the company I work for was recently bought out and most of us were laid off. I am building log furniture out of ERC and one project is a cedar log swing, and I am trying to find a varnish or treatment that will preserve the natural color of the cedar.

I have used boiled linseed oil and it it gave a kind of sickly yellow color to it and now have tried clear spar marine varnish which seems to be pretty good but am not sure about the longevity of it. Has anyone here had any experience with spar varnish? Or, does anyone here have any suggestions about what to use in an outside environment?

Here are some photos of my swing:
P.S. The photo of the really red cedar bench has the clear spar varnish applied.

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 02:49:16 AM

Yea - I figured out how to post photos. Am I good or what?

Ianab · December 22, 2013, 03:47:14 AM

Good job with the pictures ;)

I'd think that an oil finish would work best. It needs to be reapplied. maybe annually, but doing that keeps the finish "fresh" and water resistent.

Any varnish is going to deteriorate over time, look ugly, and be hard to refinish on those logs. Where an oil finish can just be re-applied as needed.

When you sell a piece, include a can of "deck oil" so the customer can re-apply as needed?

Ian

justallan1 · December 22, 2013, 08:59:14 AM

Those are some very nice swings.

Allan

Den-Den · December 22, 2013, 09:34:29 AM

Very nice work on the swings.
The spar varnish looks great and will help sell the items but if left in the sun, it will look bad in a year or so.
I would recommend Tung oil thinned 50% with mineral spirits. It won't look quite as good when new but will keep your customers happy for a long time if they add another coat every year.

Axe Handle Hound · December 22, 2013, 09:59:39 AM

A clear varnish that doesn't break down in the sun and preserves original color is the holy grail of woodworking finishes. It just doesn't exist yet. Using an oil means the customer will have to reapply and the color will fade, but it's easy to do versus scraping off old crumbling varnish every year. Deck stains are the best bet, but your best results come with stains that have more pigment so you're not really preserving the natural color. Alternatively, you could encourage customers to leave it natural and let it gray and avoid lots of repetitive work. You could also tell them to just pressure wash it annually to clean the gray off and let the natural color show through for another few weeks/months.

giant splinter · December 22, 2013, 10:04:34 AM

I have experience with spar varnish and would not recommend it for your application, it works great on boats and needs to be maintained regularly, I have used spar varnish on teak and spruce on many boats and can say from a maintenance point of view that it may not be the best choice as spar varnish is maintenance intensive. You have done a very nice job on your log furniture and the varnish does look great and really brings out the color, spar varnish requires sanding and spars in general are easy to get at for this purpose, on the log furniture there are many tight spots around your seat and on the frame structure that might be difficult to sand and refinish. I would bet that there is a finish out there that is more ideal for your project, I am certainly not a furniture maker and have no clue as far as recommending any product for your outdoor log furniture. I cant argue that the swing you finished is incredibly beautiful and comfortable to sit on ....... nice work Oklalogdog. looks like little Logdog likes it as well.

PS I was able to get the silver gray barn finish dialed in and you where correct in thinking I was using to much steel wool, I cut the steel wool back and it came out right. Thanks for the tip G.S.

T Welsh · December 22, 2013, 10:05:48 AM

oklalogdog, You might want to try Minwax Helmsman poly! I have had good results with it on outside furniture. Varnish will not hold up to UV rays outside very well,poly does a little bit better but will still break down over time! I love oil finishes and use Tung oil,you will get the same results as boiled linseed but with out the stickiness. Tim

thecfarm · December 22, 2013, 11:00:16 AM

That swing looks good.

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 01:41:58 PM

Thanks guys - I never fail to learn a lot in here. This place rocks.

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 03:34:57 PM

T Welsh

On the Tung Oil, should I cut it some with thinner for the first coat or two and how many coats would you recommend?

T Welsh · December 22, 2013, 03:59:17 PM

oklalogdog, I do not cut it, but it can be cut. Its the best oil finish I have found yet,I have even applied poly over top it after hardening up,you can also buff it to a sheen after drying! Read up on the stuff its a natural product. Tim

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 05:18:14 PM

Den Den - Do you apply just two coats cut 50/50?

scsmith42 · December 22, 2013, 06:11:04 PM

You might want to talk with some folks just north of you at TWP.

My understanding of outside finishes is that wood will turn color due to UV, and that clear finishes have little if any UV blockers in them. Dark stains have the most UV blockers.

TWP makes a lot of outdoor products and their products have an excellent reputation for quality and longevity.

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 06:39:40 PM

scsmith42

I have used TWP before on some trailer flooring but I will withhold any comments about it until I try it again and give it another chance. Best luck I've had with a colored finish was something we used that they called CWF or Clear Wood Finish. It was oil based and lasted quite a while but I'm not sure i would want to use it on furniture. It took a long time to dry.

scsmith42 · December 22, 2013, 06:48:21 PM

Sounds like you had a bad experience.... Which series product did you use on the trailer decking? I've had good success with their older (non-VOC type) products.

oklalogdog · December 22, 2013, 07:08:03 PM

scsmith42

I am not going to put down TWP. I did use it on a trailer but it was in a 1 gal. bucket that had been outside in the elements for several years and had probably frozen. After just a couple of years it began to flake and peel.

Den-Den · December 22, 2013, 08:18:35 PM

Quote from: oklalogdog on December 22, 2013, 05:18:14 PM
Den Den - Do you apply just two coats cut 50/50?

A couple of coats will provide protection. I should have specified "Pure Tung Oil", it is pretty thick and needs dilution in my experience. Takes about 3 days to dry in decent weather if thinned. There are many products that claim to contain tung oil, most of them have only a little bit.

oklalogdog · December 23, 2013, 06:37:25 AM

Den Den - I appreciate the info and if you have a certain brand you use would like to have the name of it if you don't mind. Send it in a message if you would rather.

WDH · December 23, 2013, 07:51:46 AM

I agree with 100% pure tung oil cut 50:50 with mineral spirits. It actually absorbs better with the mineral spirits, which evaporate leaving the tung oil. Don't use "Tung Oil Finish" as this is an oil/varnish mix that has little to no real tung oil. It is expensive, but goes a long way. A gallon is about $62 with shipping. The oil is $46/gallon, and your shipping may be less. Here is where I buy it. A gallon is much more cost effective since a quart will cost almost half of what a gallon costs. Here is where I have purchased it before.

http://www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

I agree that any varnish will fail, turn an ugly splotchy gray, and peel. The tung oil has to be re-applied, but that is easy to do. Re-applying varnish is like a Chinese Water Torture.