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Ya Just GOTTA Be Careful, Out There

Started by Fla._Deadheader, May 28, 2004, 01:30:32 PM

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Fla._Deadheader

  Ed and I went up to the camp on Tuesday. We had to deliver some 6% KD Cypress to a cabinet shop, and then pick up some boards we sawed during the winter, and have them handy to bring home.

  Got the lumber stacked on the trailer, grabbed the gas cans, and headed for the local rip-off to get some gas. 3---6 gallon cans of gas, $36.48 :o :o :o Needed a cold one to settle the nerves, so, grabbed a 44 oz. Big Gulp of Sprite, and headed back to the boat.

  It was around 5:30 in the evening, and we were told about some big logs that might be found when the river was low, so, off we went. We ran about 2 miles and slowed to a crawl, scanning the weeds and lily pads for the telltale sign of small waves cruising over a log, making a set of ripples that could be seen in the trash.

  We idled along and saw some pieces of log sticking out of the water and mud. We investigated every sighting, but, nothing any good was found.

  We crossed over to the other side of the river and started working our way back toward camp. It was now around 7:15 and we were getting hungry.

  We idled around a small point and into a small cove. There were small gators laying around eyeing us as we moved along. Ed spied the first log and we moved in for a better look. It was a Pine log, about 35' long and maybe, 12" in dia.; small but sawable. We moved back out of the mud and proceeded along. Soon, Ed spotted 2 more logs. We checked them out, also. Same thing, small but sawable Pines. Ed was standing at the bow of the Swamp Rat scanning the low water. He gets a better view from the slight elevation of the bow. Again, Ed points out logs. We eased in for a look and saw 5 logs laying in the mud. As we drew near, there was suddenly a violent burst of water and air, not 6 feet from the boat. It startled both of us, and then the Swamp Rat gave a heave and rocked pretty hard. Ed nearly lost his balance, I was planted firmly in the seat, driving. ;D ;D

  Seems that a large Gator had been settled in the dirty water, partly hidden in the mud. When we surprised it, it took off, UNDER THE BOAT  :o :o  We both kept watch, and before long, a gator surfaced, moving away from us. We guessed it's length to be about 14-15" from it's nose to it's eye. According to "Ask Jeeves", the rule of thumb estimate for a gator is, 1 foot per every inch from nose to eyeball. :o  That was 1 large Lizard, let me tell ya ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

  The next morning, we were talking to the guys that are rebuilding the docks where we stay, with the lumber we sawed as we were getting "Homey" aligned and reliable, and they were telling us that the day before, they could hear some big gators roaring and bellering in that very same area. The gators would be about ½ mile from the docks :o ;D ;D  Next time, we will be looking a little harder ;) ;)  :) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

rebocardo

Next time I would make sure I went with large caliper handguns  :)

Pete J


ToddC


Fla._Deadheader

  Anybody can go. All ya gotta do is, SHOW UP. ;D ;D ;D ;D

  We need a few sacrificial offerings, occasionally. ;D ;D ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Swede

Fla_D.

Perhaps I can get a permit for logging in a lake. Have been told there is a lot of pine and spruce logs in some places there, been in the water and mud for 30 to 150 years. There is also a bunch of oak somewhere. I´m looking for logs 12" and more in small end.

What can boards from these logs be good for or are they worthless?
How long can the logs be in the water and still be good?
That about the woods characteristics compared to common logs?

Swede.

PS. We have no gators here but some pikes are 4-5' long.  ::)
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Fla._Deadheader

  Swede, I would be happy to tell ya how to find them logs. There are some easy ways, if the lake is not very deep, 15 meters or less.

  The logs "age" underwater, like a fine wine (so I'm told) ;D.  The difference in the wood is the fact that during the heydays of Virgin Forest Logging, here, the very best wood was all cut down. What is left was considered "culls". It is very hard to find the quality of trees now, compared to what was taken, then. It can be done, but, not on any great quantity.

  If you are familiar with the name "Stradivarius", the Dude that made the famous Violins and Viola's, it has been said that, when the wood was taken from the forests, it was taken by water, and it actually was transported by water, tied to the trading ships, to it's destination. The water treatment of the wood, during this time, is supposed to have a bearing on the sound quality.  I once saw a TV Documentary on Instrument Wood, and someone was experimenting with the idea of water treatment. His wood had a very close sound match to the Italians Violin sounds.

  There is-was a company in Wisconsin-USA, that actually started water logging in a big way, in the Great Lakes, a few years back. A google search would turn up that info, and you should learn a lot from the website, on the wood and why it's so valuable. Try that, and maybe Ron Scott, from this Forum will break in here and fill us in. Ron has recovered logs from the water, also.

  If nothing else, it will put some adventure into yer life.  ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Paschale

Deadheader--

I heard a report on NPR a couple years back about reclaimed wood from the Great Lakes being used in instruments.  Pretty cool stuff!  There was something about the cell walls being submerged for so long in very cold water that effected their structure, such that they create a more even harmonic frequency.  They were testing the wood on percussion instruments, log drums and wood block and such, and played them on air.  Convinced me that there was something to it!  Wood is SO COOL!   :)
Y'all can pronounce it "puh-SKOLLY"

Pete J

They did a TV documentary on that guy. He was diving down with scuba gear to attach cables to the logs. From what he was saying. He was bringing in big $$$$ because the wood was perfect for instruments.  
It was a combination between soaking in the water for so long and the fact that they were old growth trees.

I wish I was a creative thinker like that. Just sitting around one day saying, "I think I'll throw on some scuba gear and see if there are any stratavarious type logs on the bottom of this lake?" "Maybe I can cut them up and sell them?"

Who knew?

Swede

I found this :) :) :)

http://www.pendoreillepines.com/

 If I  can  find a girl who likes to dive in cold water I´ll marry her if I have to!  :D :D :D

I HATE cold water!

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Swede

Thankya Fla_D. Don´t think it´s easy to find much hard wood in "my" lake but heard about some oak that went through the ice long time ago.

Swede..
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Ron Scott

 Obtaining a permit for Underwater Log Salvage is getting quite difficult here in Michigan. One such effort to recover century-old logs from the bottom of Keweenaw, Munising, and Grand Traverse bays remains up in the air and is being delayed by the courts.

A couple divers applied for permits to recover the logs, but the case is under appeal since the permit to recover the logs was denied by the Baraga County Circuit Court. Native Americans do not want the logs removed as they fear that removal of the logs from the bottom lands will destroy fish habitat.

Though the underwater logs are as good as the day they went down and may provide some premium grade wood, the legal "hassels" and legal costs may not justify their opportunity values which will be lost.
~Ron

Swede

The climate here is more like Micigan. There is a lot of logs 15-30' under the water and the water temp. can be 70* F in the summer.
Does anyone know about the logs condition (spruce and pine) after 50 or 100 years in the water?

I don´t think it´s expensive or difficult to get a permit to take the logs but I have to prove it´s a serious project. If the logs are less than 100 year there is a legal owner. ::)

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Fla._Deadheader

Swede, go out in a boat and drag a weight, about 2 pounds or so, along the bottom, feeling for logs. If you locate one, it IS possible to raise it some, IF you can "catch" it somehow. Skid tongs can be slid down a rope and made to straddle the log. Lift them and the log is caught. Pull on the rope while it runs partly around a cleat or some such object on the deck, so you have some "leverage".

  A very heavy log out of the water will weigh, maybe 20% as much, submerged. Tie it off to the cleat and slowly tow it to shallow water. There, you can inspect it. If someone else sees you do this, you COULD end up with competition.

  The older logs here were felled with an axe. Then, they were sawn into sawlogs.

  You need to go to a library or a university, and search for articles on how the timber was cut, over 100 years ago.  That would give you some idea of what you will find with the logs you inspect.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Swede

Fla._D;

Thank You for telling me about 1Kg weight in the end of a rope!
I have a boat. Some more time, some more plastic, some painting and I can let it in the lake with a 5x5"x13' across, just infront of the cabin.
I also hawe a 20' pipe of aluminum I think can be useful, perhaps I fasten an old hook used in timber rafting "100" years ago.  ;D
You see, Mr. Deadheader, You are not the only one having old junk around Your feet! :D :D :D Have to ask the farmers around here  about an old tong. Think I can get one for nothing. :)
But I´ll wait for the answer  from the authority saying "Swede and noone else may haul  them logs". I´ll need that paper or a lot of other people gets unforeseen inclining for work. ::)  I rather want them just look and say "He has always been crazy!"  and wondering how much I earn :D


Ron Scott. It´ll be very intresting  to see the condition of them old logs. "Rotten or not rotten, thats the question........" ;) Have You seen some pine or spruce boards from the lakes?

Swede.


Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

Fla._Deadheader

  Swede, nothing can rot without air, or maybe oxygen. I am not a biochemist.  ::) ;D

  The Pine we get is very soft on the outside. That is the sapwood, which is not valuable anyway. The heart wood is what you are after.  See if you can find old photos of the size of your timber, when it was cut, and then you can see how big the heart wood will be.

  I can take a few pics at the camp this wek. It will show the heart surrounded by sapwood. You should have the same.

  We just sawed a 24' log into several 6 X 8's and after getting into the log about 4" from the outside, the wood is good.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron Scott

If you are working in fresh water, the logs are as good as the day they went down. They are well preserved in fresh water. Back in 1960 we salvaged some 10" - 16"' spruce submerged for over 100 years which sawed out very nice boards.
~Ron

Fla._Deadheader

  Ron, did you get any of the good hardwood like the Wisconsin guy got???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

Correct me if I'm wrong, but colder water has less oxygen and the logs will rot less?  ???
I belive that's one reason why Lake Superior is such a great place to get logs from, year round cold water temps.

Fla._Deadheader

According to what Ron says, that is correct. Now, we don't get hardwood logs out of this 80° water, so, I'm goin with Ron. He's done it longer than us. ;) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

SwampDonkey

Yes, I think Sherwood posted some really old submerged logs in the Historic Milling and Logging thread. But, you can't use hardwood for veneer from submerged logs. Its been tried, the lignon deteriorates and when the veneer sheets dry they become bristle or even some have found that they end up like dust.

Here's an interesting article Reminds me of what some of you folks have been involved in on here. That's got to be expensive logging :)

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Furby

Yep SD, the way they do it, it is!  ;D
Deadheader has found ways of doing it cheaply, and their need for more logs and more hauling capacity, has also increased their cost. Right Deadheader??

Myself, I really only want to recover a handfull. Well that's to start with anyways!  ;D ;) ;)
A few here and there can be done cheaply, with a little more time involved. The big thing is the permits and the State's cut, if I'm only getting a few logs for myself, it's not worth it even to try. I have wondered how hard it would be to get away with getting a few logs, but I figure that if I got caught, the State wouldn't hesitate to press charges.  :-/

SwampDonkey

Well you folks all enjoy what your doing, and that's the main thing. I went to renew my liability and E&O insurances today. They got bumped up another $450 this year, to $3400. Oh well, if you don't spend it on insurance then the tax man takes it in taxes, so what's the diff, eh? ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Fla._Deadheader

  If you posted an article, I don't see it ??? ???

  Might be able to follow yer discussion, if there was an article. or if you esplaned what yer talkin about. ;D ;D

  Furby, down here, the State WILL prosecute ya for stealin state property.  I asked 'em one time, which State emplayee put them logs there. Ya otter see their looks on their faces.  I told 'em they was crooks for claimin them logs in the first place. 8) 8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

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