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Building a Nyle Kiln

Started by Sawdust Lover, December 17, 2013, 08:46:11 PM

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Sawdust Lover

Well I have been using my solar kiln for over a year now and it's time to put in a new Nyle. I have had good luck with solar one but it just won't keep up with the amount of lumber I am selling. Does anyone have a Nyle kiln and is there anything I should know before building the chamber. The chamber will be 14' x 12' with a sliding door on the front. Here are a few pictures of my solar kiln.

  

 

WDH

I just built one for the L53.  My chamber is 11.5' wide and 9.5' deep.



 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Sawdust Lover

WDH, Is your floor concrete? What is the plywood for under the 6x6's? I bought the 200. Have you used yours yet? I'm a little nervous it seem's to be a whole different ballgame on drying wood.

WDH

    I just sent you a PM.  The kiln chamber is built under an old carport.  The floor of the carport is concrete, but I layed down treated 2x4's, then added a layer of 1/2" treated CDX plywood on top of the 2x4's, then a joist floor of 2x8's on top of that with 9" of fiberglass insulation, then 2" of pink rigid foam insulation (polystyrene), then a 6 mil polyethylene vapor barrier, then topped with another 1/2" layer of treated CDX plywood.  That was the floor that the walls were built from.

    The plywood on the floor in the pic is what I use as guide to line up the tractor with the pallet of wood that I will load into the kiln.  It serves as a guide so I know how far in to place the load.  The pallets that the wood is stickered on are 4' wide, so they fit right on the 4' x 8' piece of plywood.  I am just finishing my 4th load in the kiln, three of which were pine that I will use to build the pallets to sticker the wood on. 

    Check out this thread.  Forum member Yellowhammer has a Nyle Kiln and a bunch of experience.  I traveled over to see his set up and was very impressed.  Robert (Yellowhammer) has a very well thought thru and efficient operation.  He has the L53 like I, but the process is basically the same for the L200, it just can dry bigger loads. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,68986.msg1035199.html#msg1035199
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

You will find that the L300 or bigger is more versatile than the 50 or 200.  As it sounds like this will be a growing business for you, versatility would be a good benefit to have.  The smaller, less expensive units can indeed dry wood, but the 300 and bigger have more options for you when drying.  When you locate the kiln, make sure you plans have a spot for the next kiln too...hate to see the first one in the wrong spot if you do indeed expand.  Also, you will need a dry lumber storage building as production increases, more stickers, maybe an air drying shed, etc.

I have been a consultant to many start-up operations and I find that they often have trouble with cash flow on a week or monthly basis.  That is, over a year, things are good, but some months things are so slow that they run out of cash.  So, use a loan to purchase equipment and save your cash.  As you make money, pay off the loan, but always keep a reasonable cash reserve.

Finally, step #1 should be to formulate a business plan.  Your local extension office can help, or maybe the state has a small business help office.  The plan forces you to plan and consider all the aspects of the business.  It is well worth the effort.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

WDH

Handling 500 Bf to 1000 BF at a time in a kiln load is one thing, but handling 4000 to 8000 BF in a kiln load is another.  You have to be set up big to handle that many BF, and you will need much more infrastructure to handle that much wood.  That is fine if you are set up for it.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Harry George

Perfect timing for this post. I too am working on building a Nyle L200M kiln and was going to use a insulated sea container. and a track system to move the material in & out. I have been trucking my material to a kiln 150 miles away (one way) with tolls of $100 and traffic I said "Uncle". My concern has been the cost per kilowatt. It crazy expensive here  27 cent Ouch! but doing the math it will still be cheep for to dry my own material, plus I have the control of material rotation. 
Gene I have my Business Plan and you are 100% correct about cash flow. Working now on a small loan
"Life is a participation sport, get in the game"

scsmith42

Good advice from Gene; if I had it to do over again I would go with a model larger than my L200.

There are several things that I have learned from 10 years of operation.

First - ease of loading and unloading makes a big difference in labor costs.  My next kiln will be setup so that I can fork the stacks directly in and out of the kiln.  Loading carts is time consuming and problematic.

Second, the size of the kiln chamber is important with regard to air flow.  Forget using a container - go with a dedicated building with a shape optimized for airflow and loading.

Third, baffling the load is important to managing air flow in a small kiln, but it is also time consuming and thus costly.  Factor in ways to be able to quickly baffle.  Consistent stack lengths and widths help in this area.

Fourth, to save on electric consumption, be sure that the kiln chamber is well insulated.  My next kiln will use spray foam insulation.

Fifth - In our part of the country during the first part of the drying process it is hard to keep the temperatures down in the summer time, especially if the kiln is well insulated.  Vents will be important.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Sawdust Lover

As always Gene had some good advise. But in this case I will only be drying around 1000 to 1500 bf per month. I will be building it so it will take 14' lumber. I would love to use spray foam but I just cant afford it right now but I'm sure it will cost me in the long run. My solar kiln will work as a pre drying shed now or a place to dry the 2" live edge slabs. I was happy with the L200 because I was going to get the smaller one at first. It seems no matter what I build or buy it's never big enough so I am starting to level my business out at a manageable point so I wont get to big. I have a full time job and I plan on keeping it until my kids are through college. I will be taking pictures and keeping you posted. SCSmith42, Do you dry your slabs in your kiln?

OneWithWood

Buried in this thread is the build out of my L200 kiln chamber with a few modifications.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,1400.msg16897.html

I placed doors on either end of the chamber so I could move the cart through while I loaded another one.  This has saved me more than once as I can be sawing and loading the next cart while the kiln is running.

SCSmith is dead on when he mentions the advantages of being able to load the kiln directly with a fork lift.  Another method would be to extend the rails so that the kiln cart can be loaded using a fork lift, tractor or some such.  Handling the lumber to stack, sticker, un stack and collect stickers is time consuming and costly.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

YellowHammer

You will have no trouble getting 1500 bdft a month, in fact I think the biggest thing you will notice going from solar to DH is just how much lumber they will crank out; I try to get a load out every one to two weeks based on species, predrying, etc.

There is a tradeoff on kiln compressor horsepower (large vs small) because to maximize profit per kilowatt its necessary to run full loads relative to the species or thickness being dried, and to dry at the maximum rate the wood will allow.  Since its not a good idea to mix loads of species or thickness, the capacity of the kiln in many ways will drive your lumber production, maybe more than desirable.  The higher the capacity the kiln, the more lumber required to feed it to maximize kW/bdft.  Nothing worse than putting a short load in the kiln, hitting the "on" button, and watching the power meter start spinning knowing a full load would take the same time.

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

Sometimes bigger may not be better.  It is all in how you are set up, unless you are a big commercial operation. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Quote from: WDH on December 18, 2013, 10:00:34 PM
Sometimes bigger may not be better.  It is all in how you are set up, unless you are a big commercial operation. 
smiley_thumbsup

I have a couple buddies (or competitors ;D) in my area who are one man operations like me and have higher capacity kilns, but interestingly enough, they almost always end up running partial loads because they can't saw enough to keep the kilns at full capacity.  I have the same throughput (or more) than them, at significantly reduced operating cost.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

YellowHammer makes a great point.  A business plan will direct a new person to the correct size kiln.  Smaller sizes can be more versatile at times.  However, if the kiln is not full, then one might seriously consider working harder to get some custom drying to fill it.  Especially if wood is air dried, we can mix species and thicknesses in the same kiln load.  If one is going to run the kiln partially full, what is the cost of adding more lumber to fill it?  It is not huge, so custom drying can be economically attractive for the customer and kiln owner.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

scsmith42

Quote from: Sawdust Lover on December 18, 2013, 07:47:57 PM
SCSmith42, Do you dry your slabs in your kiln?

The kiln dries primarily 4/4 and 5/4 lumber.  Thick slabs are air dried for a few years as needed before going into the kiln for sterilizing and finishing them off.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

WoodenHead

I have a Nyle L200M.  It has been working well for me.  I can put up to 3000 bdft of oak (16' lengths) in and it will dry in about 25 days (with some prior air-drying).  I have also dried about 1500 bdft of green white pine in 7+ days to 12-14%.  A well insulated chamber is important (floor included).  For oak I have used about 1000 kWh of electricity (in the summer though).

In regards to kiln sizing, I would prefer to have a number of smaller kilns as opposed to one large one.  Usually my quantities are in the 1000-2000 bdft range, particularly for the hardwoods.  Sometimes I need to run more than one species at a time.

Sawdust Lover

Here are some updates on the progress. The pad is 14' x 20' so I am using 4' of it to store lumber before it goes into the kiln. Therfore the kiln is 14' x 16'. It will have a sliding door on the front so I can load it with the forks.

  

  

  

 

WDH

Are you going with the L200?
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Sawdust Lover

Yes, I bought the unit a few weeks ago.

C_Miller

I built a chamber for a LM200 a couple of years ago.

i'm in western ny with winters being around 20 degrees f and here's my list of things i'd do different.

i built with 2x6 and stone wool insulation. stone wool has better r-value and insulates if wet.  what i noticed was that heat was transferred through the 2x6's to the outside. i  would have staggered the studs and put them on 24" centers. better yet i would have gone with SIP structural integrated panels with no studs and no transfer.

i had trusses built and insulated between them. next time i'll put in ceiling joists and insulate that or better yet 8" SIP and then roof structure.

don't make bifold doors.

i built 14 x18 should have gone 14 x 20. i can fit 16' inside but not much room to move.

i'm sure there is more but i've only run a few loads and these are the glaring items i would change. the plans they sent for the kiln are good.

CJM

Sawdust Lover

Thanks for that info C_Miller. I don't want to be the guy that's says I wish I did this different. All the info I can get know is greatly appreciated.

C_Miller

you are welcome, i remembered talking to a guy about spray foam, after the fact of course, he was telling me the biggest advantage comes in the first inch and a quarter where the foam seals the building.  had i known i would have gone with the shallower depth on the foam and filled in with stone wool. alot of the transfeer thru the studs would have been eliminated. there are DIY kits on line and some local distributors too. i would highly encourage this.  the kits  are only a couple hundred dollars and will definitely pay for themselves in future tuition.

Merry Christmas
CJM

Sawdust Lover

Good idea! I will check in to the DIY spray foam. I had a quote from someone to spray it but it was 5 times more.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As the kiln can get to 150 F or hotter near the top when the fans are off, check the temperature limits of the foam.  Many evaporate at these temperatures.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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