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Raker Filing

Started by luvmexfood, December 15, 2013, 01:33:52 PM

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luvmexfood

Could someone plz give me some advice/guidance on filing rakers. I run a Stihl O29 with either a Stihl or Woodpro .325 chain. I have purchased in the past two raker filing guides.

The first is an Oregon 31941 flat guide approximately 4" long with a slot in the top. According to what I can find it should be the correct one. It just seems to not set on the chain very well. Rocks left and right giving a different height on the rakers.

Second one is a Huskvarna that came with files and a file handle. It said it was for .325 chain. Don't have model number but it is the combinaton roller model with a "paw" that pivots out. The instructions on the back of the pack were not very clear. Can I use this with Stihl and Woodpro chain? The Stihl chain is a 26 RSC 74. Not sure on the Woodpro number but it is supposed to be the same. or close to it. The drawing shows it coming in from the side. Just can't seem to figure it out and can't watch any videos at home to see how it works.

Got me stumped. Also I guess when you use a guage you file the rakers down and freehand the front curvature? Is this correct?
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

beenthere

It will rock some, but not that critical. Center and level it and that should be good.
It should rest on the top of two of the cutters.
If a "raker" is high, then file it off. When the file no longer takes a bite, that should be enough filing.  A bit of a roundover on the leading edge is something I seldom do, but on occasion touch it up.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Caloren

What Beenthere said  ;D
If you want to round off the front of the rakers hold the end of the Oregon guide against the edge of the tooth, that you have nice and sharp, to protect it from your flat file, then a couple of strokes should do it.
Stihl MS 170, Stihl MS 310, Stihl 028 AV Super, and half a dozen other no-accounts! Cat D4 D.

Philbert

Oregon makes 2 styles of depth gauge tools: some have narrow slots at the ends to fit over the depth gauges; some have a wider slot in the middle (I call this one a 'saddle gauge' tool).

They also come in different offsets (.025, .030, .035, etc.).

I like the saddle style better. It feels more stable being centered over the depth gauge, and the wider slot works better with reduced kickback chain bumpers.

I don't always file with the tool in place: check it, take a few strokes, check it again.

Always file from the inside out to minimize chatter. Do all of the left cutters, then do all of the right cutters from the other side.

The depth gauge tool on the Husqvarna roller guides is more like the Carlton File-O-Plates. These work on some chains, but not all.

If the chain does not cut as aggressively as you want (especially as the cutters are ground back) take another pass or two with the file.

Rounding over the front of the depth gauges will give you a smoother cutting chain. I sometimes do this with a ScotchBrite wheel on my bench grinder. You basically want to match the original profile of the depth gauge.

Philbert

chucker

two swipes with the flat file on the rakers, for every 4th cutter filing.... usually 30.000,s.. also try a 5/32 file to set the hook in the tooth for a better bite and im guessing your using a 3/16 file for the teeth?!
respect nature ! and she will produce for you !!  jonsered 625 670  2159 2171/28"  efco 147 husky 390xp/28" .375... 455r/auto tune 18" .58 gauge

Philbert

Here is a YouTube video by Husqvarna that shows their roller guide and depth gauge tool in use.  Might be a little clearer than the illustrations on the package. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXzoSEiu4R0

Some people have mentioned the need to slightly modify some parts of the guide to work with certain (non-Husqvarna) chains.

Philbert

beenthere

That is a good video showing the sharpening jig (one I also use). For many years I'd sharpen with just the file and was constantly on the lookout for getting too deep and too much hook to the tooth.
But with this jig, I've sharpened quite a few chains from new to worn out teeth with no wayward problems.
Showing the use of the raker (depth gauge) filing is also good on the video.  The jig needs a little filing to get it to slide over the Stihl chain links.

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

 I doubt I hit the rakers more than 3-4 times in the entire usefull life of the chain.
Same with a rocked cutter .So it's a little short ,leave it alone it'll cut just fine .

I get a tad anal on a race chain but not so critical on a work chain,just keep it sharp .

mmartone

Stihl 2 in 1 chain sharpener, files the cutters and rakers at the same time. Yes I'm sold on this littel gadget.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

HiTech

I hate to give advice to someone on filing rakers, cause no 2 people do it the same. I like to keep my rakers low enough for the saw to do the work. Pulls a nice chip and you don't have to lean on it to get it to cut. Some keep them way to grabby for my likes. For cutting trees down I love a brand new chain.

thecfarm

I'm kinda like Al,a few more times,but sometimes I just guess at them too. And sometimes I guess wrong too. My eye is not what it use to be.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Oliver1655

The type of wood can also effect the difference between the cutter vs raker height.  A smaller difference with hardwoods to keep the chain from being real grabby while with soft wood or noodling you can have a larger distance. 

For general cutting with a mix of hard & soft wood I like the Pferd CS-X / Stihl 2in1 file systems, (same thing), which sets the raker while sharpening.  I do like to round off the front of the raker with a flat file to help it glide/decrease drag from time to time. 
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

bandmiller2

I lay something flat on top of the chain and eyeball the depth gauges,if their too high I hit them usally with two strokes of a flat file.If the chain is off I will carefully take a little off with the bench grinder.(if you don't have the feel don't use this method) Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Al_Smith

A lot of folks who do race chains use a straight edge and feeler guages .That cheapie Oregon thing is probabley good enough for most people .I guess some people can eyeball them ,I can't . Close but for some reason I tend to get a grabby chain.Bounce so hard it knocks the fillings out of your teeth .About like running a jack hammer on steroids.

Crow99

Not a guru here or anything, but I've come to like the straight edge and feeler gauge method.  just get a 1/4" piece of key stock or something else cheap, straight and simple, cut to a convenient length to go between two teeth (maybe 3 or 4 inches long) and use a .025" automotive feeler gauge to check the gap.  Lets you see exactly what you've got rather than relying on a "gauge."  And depending on the cut and "feel" you can vary the depth easily by substituting different thickness feeler gauges.  Simple and will work the same on different pitch chains.

SawTroll

Quote from: Philbert on December 15, 2013, 06:58:36 PM......
The depth gauge tool on the Husqvarna roller guides is more like the Carlton File-O-Plates. These work on some chains, but not all.

.....

Those raker guides work much better than the ones that rest on top of two cutters - as they are progressive, and sets the raker to the individual cutter. The Husky ones also have two settings (marked HARD and SOFT) that can be used for different wood/conditions.

You need to use the right one for the chain model though. They are made for a variety of Oregon chain, but also work well on the Stihl RS/RSC and RM/RMC Chain that I have tried them on.
Information collector.

John Mc

Quote from: SawTroll on December 17, 2013, 03:10:59 PM
Quote from: Philbert on December 15, 2013, 06:58:36 PM......
The depth gauge tool on the Husqvarna roller guides is more like the Carlton File-O-Plates. These work on some chains, but not all.

.....

Those raker guides work much better than the ones that rest on top of two cutters - as they are progressive, and sets the raker to the individual cutter. The Husky ones also have two settings (marked HARD and SOFT) that can be used for different wood/conditions.

You need to use the right one for the chain model though. They are made for a variety of Oregon chain, but also work well on the Stihl RS/RSC and RM/RMC Chain that I have tried them on.

That style of raker guide also is better at customizing the raker to the tooth that it works with (the tooth following the raker). This makes keeping all of your teeth the same length far less critical. The style of raker filing guide that has a "drop" at one end or a "saddle" in the middle is not as good for this, since it averages the heights of two teeth.  In this case, it's mor eimportant to keep all the teeth even (or at least fairly close).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Philbert

Respectfully, John, it's very important to keep each of the cutterrs the same length.

If an odd cutter is shorter it will also be lower (and narrower), meaning that the longer (and taller) cutters either side of it may 'bridge' it somewhat in the cut, making that minor depth gauge difference irrelevant.

I like the depth gauge tool to span more than one cutter because it is a progression of cutters that does the cutting, not a bunch of independent teeth.

As always, the bottom line is to find something that works for you.

Philbert

John Mc

Respectfully, Philbert, it's important to keep all of the cutters the same length if you are using the type of raker gauge you are describing or using the "straight edge across two teeth with a feeler gauge" method. Matching the length of the cutters exactly (or even very closely) is just not necessary if you are using the type of depth gauge that rides on top of the following tooth, and slopes down over the depth gauge.  With this gauge, you set the thickness of the chip as appropriate for each cutter, rather than an average.  Since the cutters are all porpoising in and out of the wood anyway, it's the relationship of the cutter to the preceding raker that is the most important.  The amount that an individual cutter is lower and narrower due to it being a bit shorter in length is almost insignificant in comparison, if the raker is set accordingly.

I'm not talking about allowing your cutters to get totally out of whack with regard to length. However, with this type of gauge, there is no need to measure cutter length, or count strokes on each cutter (or count and occasionally add a stroke to the cutters you are filing with your "off" hand). If they start to get visibly significantly unmatched, then you just touch up the long ones a bit at that point.

You do want each cutter taking the same size chip. To do this, it's important that the depth gauges be the same depth in relation to each of the cutters. You can do this by making all the cutters the same, and then making all the rakers the same, or you can save time and tooth life (especially if you are hand filing) by filing each tooth till it is sharp, and adjusting the raker for that tooth accordingly.

The taper in height is gradual enough (about 9˚), that it takes a good difference in length to make a meaningful difference in height. For example, .025" in length would equate to less than .004 in height. .004" is significant if you leave the raker set for the longer, higher tooth, but if you adjust the raker to give the same clearance, the fact that the tooth rides .004" lower is almost meaningless.  I'm not into chainsaw racing, but if I were, perhaps that difference would mean something to me, and I'd file all my teeth identically and do some comparisons. In real-world cutting, I'd rather not use up the tooth length by taking longer teeth down if I don't have to.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

beenthere

John Mc
The way I read it, you give very good information. smiley_thumbsup
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Philbert

I hear what you are saying John Mc. 

But if I am that casual about cutter lengths, I am not going to be all that fussy about getting the depth gauges better than 'good enough'.  Even cutters mean equal cutter heights, equal kerf width, and smoother cutting.

The standard drop gauges work for me.  And, as noted in an earlier post, they work on almost any type/brand of chain.  I have a set of the Husqvarna guides, but they don't work with some chains.

Philbert

John Mc

You do what works for you, and obviously what you are doing with your rakers is working for you.  For me, I find it doesn't take any more "fuss" to get the depth gauges exactly where you need them with the Husqvarna or carlton File-o-plate type guide or with the Oregon or "saddle" type guide.

I do agree they don't work on some chains (at least not without some modification, which I find to be a pain in the neck).  Since I don't use those types of chains, it's not an issue for me.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

CTYank

Simplest setup I've seen for setting depth gauge heights is a flat file in a Granberg "File-N-Joint" guide.

No tooling specific to a chain is needed. Can be adjusted very precisely to the height you want.

Having said that, if you use that file guide and don't dig ditches with chains, the depth gauges will likely wear at a rate such that they don't need filing. IOW, you can pretty easily touch up a chain with a stroke per tooth, removing very little tooth.
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Morso 7110

ely

I am fairly young and new to the game of sharpening chainsaws, only been doing it since I was 16 or 17. and I have never owned or used any sort of gauge or file guide... I have seen them before but never knew what they were for.
I only use  a flat file and a chainsaw file to get the chain sharp. I have always eyeballed the drags and I use the guide mark on the tooth when it has one.
im sure its not perfect but I cut pretty smooth most times.

I remember commenting on a member here at FF once, he had cut a log off for a picture and the cut was an exceptional cut to me. who ever that was could sharpen a saw.

brettl

Quote from: mmartone on December 16, 2013, 09:21:28 AM
Stihl 2 in 1 chain sharpener, files the cutters and rakers at the same time. Yes I'm sold on this littel gadget.

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/accessories/filing-tools/2in1file/

Can you swap out round files of different sizes or do you need a jig for each size with the Stihl/PFerd system? Thanks :new_year:

Al_Smith

In a perfect world all the cutters would be the same length ,the angles all perfect and the rakers all the same .In the real world this very seldom is the case yet the chains cut very well .--The great chain filing debate ,not to be confused with the oil wars . :)

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