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Author Topic: Narrow Kerf Chain  (Read 2477 times)

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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2013, 03:33:16 pm »

Yes I have the same problem explaining this in my posts ;D. Just have to type it out longhand
Unless you can find it first Philbert I'll have to go back into the1970s archives and see why Oregon named the 70 series LP

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2013, 04:37:04 pm »
. . .never call Stihl 3/8 Picco chain "Low Profile", only Oregon holds that title.

That's part of the problem! Too many trade names getting in the way of common descriptive terms.

To make things more confusing, Oregon has '3/8 LP' chain that is not 'low profile':
http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/M20_21_22_72_73_75LPX.htm

Philbert

Yes, it is easy to get confused if you don't know exactly what each chain model is....
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline webgal

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2013, 04:43:45 pm »
Picco (Stihl) or Low Profile (Oregon) (WoodlandPRO) can all be used interchangeably. Of course each company wants to have the last word on what it is called, but if you have 56 dl of picco or low profile, you end up with the same usage.

I'm sure a whole new debate can be sparked what is a better brand, but I'm not going to dip my toe in that pool.
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2013, 04:59:51 pm »

There are full chisel options for .325. .325NK already states Narrow Kerf. When I referred to Oregon's 20 Series chain that is the full chisel option vs the narrow kerf 95VP. Bailey's full chisel option is 20RC while their narrow kerf option is 20NK.

......

Yes, obviously - but besides my point of no (full) chisel option in .325NK. If someone came up with such an option, the NK consept would be much more interesting!
I think from reading webgal's post she is separating the differences in the two and she knows 95VP and 20NK are not full chisel.

.....

Of course she knows that - my point is that .325 narrow kerf setups are less useful than they could/should have been, because none of the availiable chain models are (full) chisel.  ;)
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2013, 05:08:52 pm »
 

 
 Here's a pic of the differences between a Stihl Picco 8 tooth mini 7 spline bore  rim sprocket and a Oregon 8 tooth standard 7 spline rim.
Notice the Picco is slightly larger in diameter even though they both are 3/8 -8T sprockets.


Offline webgal

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2013, 06:01:28 pm »
Low profiles (aka piccos) tend to run spurs from what I've seen. Cool that Stihl offers a rim system for picco. The oregon spline shown is for full 3/8 size pitch chain. You'd run that  on a 372 husky.

Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2013, 08:08:02 pm »


 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.) Here's a pic of the differences between a Stihl Picco 8 tooth mini 7 spline bore  rim sprocket and a Oregon 8 tooth standard 7 spline rim.
Notice the Picco is slightly larger in diameter even though they both are 3/8 -8T sprockets.

It surely is, and it needs to be to compensate for the lower chassis on the Picco/lo-pro chain - as the pitch (at the rivets) is the same .366 on both (no, it isn't .375, so calling 3/8" chain .375 simply is wrong).
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2013, 08:39:49 pm »
All good info SawTroll 8)
If anyone needs the part# for that Picco rim here it is
BTW its been ages since I bought this rim but they may have other tooth counts. I remember this mini  7spline bore fits a Stihl 024-026.
 

 

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2013, 08:54:49 pm »
All good info SawTroll 8)
If anyone needs the part# for that Picco rim here it is
BTW its been ages since I bought this rim but they may have other tooth counts. I remember this mini  7spline bore fits a Stihl 024-026.
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I believe there is a 7-pin variant as well, but 6-pin likely isn't possible even for the Stihl mini 7-spline.
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2013, 09:07:11 pm »
All good info SawTroll 8)
If anyone needs the part# for that Picco rim here it is
BTW its been ages since I bought this rim but they may have other tooth counts. I remember this mini  7spline bore fits a Stihl 024-026.
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I believe there is a 7-pin variant as well, but 6-pin likely isn't possible even for the Stihl mini 7-spline.
Thanks Niko, I was going to suggest to the OP of this thread Rob 5073, that he may be wise to run the new Stihl 63PS chisel chain that I showed earlier on both his saws.

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2013, 09:10:02 pm »
Low profiles (aka piccos) tend to run spurs from what I've seen. Cool that Stihl offers a rim system for picco. The oregon spline shown is for full 3/8 size pitch chain. You'd run that  on a 372 husky.

All that is correct.

The top handle saws etc in 3/8" Picco/lo-pro usually use a 6-pin sprocket, and that likely isn't possible to make even for the Stihl mini 7-spline drums.

.325x7 isn't much larger, but that is possible even for the regular small 7-spline (as the number of slots for drivers is the same as the number of splines).
That setup comes standard on the 339xp, and I assume that is what Holmentree have used on his 338xpt (basically the same saw, but top handle vs. rear handle).... :)
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline Rob5073

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2013, 10:19:13 pm »
HolmanTree,  what would be the benefits of running the Stihl chain? Would I have to change anything or can I use the chain with the stock setups?

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2013, 11:47:48 pm »
HolmanTree,  what would be the benefits of running the Stihl chain? Would I have to change anything or can I use the chain with the stock setups?
If the saw is set up for 3/8" lo-pro, the advantage would be that Stihl make a (full) chisel chain for that setup (63PS - forget 63PS3, as it is "green" chain), and Oregon doesn't (so far).

If your wood is somewhat "dirty", and you need semi chisel, there are no advantage to run Stihl chain, Oregon 91VX and /or VXL likely is the best semi chisel options (i have no personal experience though, this is based on what people I trust have posted in the past).
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline ladylake

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2013, 05:34:47 am »
 I really like the 91 vx semi chiesel, stays sharp a long time and cuts great.. You want to use a 6 tooth on 45cc and less as a 7 tooth 3/8 lp cuts about the same as a .325 7 tooth, tried that and the 3/8 lp 6 tooth cuts the fastest by quite a bit.   Steve
Timberking B20 9000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2013, 03:22:02 pm »
HolmanTree,  what would be the benefits of running the Stihl chain? Would I have to change anything or can I use the chain with the stock setups?
Rob, I was just saying you could run the same chain on both saws to keep things simple and still get good or better performance then what you already have.
You'd have to convert your 545 over to 3/8 which is already an option. The 91 VXL 3/8 Low-Profile or Stihl Picco chain will work fine on the standard 3/8 converted 545 for what  little cutting you say you do, it's not perfect but then most chain is not perfect as their pitch changes all the time with wear and tear anyways.
Here's a video comparing a chisel .325 chain to the Picco 63PS chisel chain. The little chisel Picco looks very impressive, if it wasn't -30 below outside I would test mine :D


Offline Rob5073

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2013, 05:07:47 pm »
I see now what you mean.  Thanks for posting the video.  I never realized there were different options and modifications one could make on a saw even if something as simple as the chain/sprocket.  I'll research it further.

Offline SawTroll

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2013, 05:18:13 pm »
Running 3/8" Picco on a regular 3/8" sprocket will be about as using a sprocket that is wore well beyond it useful life.. ;)

Don't do it, unless in a pinch.....
Firewood saws: Jonsereds Raket 621 (1970), Husky 353G, Stihl MS361W, Husky 372xpg, New Edition Husky 339xp, Dolmar PS5100SH, New Edition Husky 346xpg, Jonsered 2153WH, Husky 560xpg.

Offline webgal

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2013, 06:02:28 pm »
Ditto  :D
Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2013, 04:03:51 pm »
Running 3/8" Picco on a regular 3/8" sprocket will be about as using a sprocket that is wore well beyond it useful life.. ;)

Don't do it, unless in a pinch.....
Niko, it must be tough being a armchair coach :D
I put the new Picco 63PS to the test today on my Husqvarna 550XP with a 14" bar in 3/8 LoPro tip from my 338XPT and put a small 7 spline 3/8" 7Tooth Oregon rim on it.
I cut about a dozen cuts through a 10"X10" spruce and the chain cut like crazy ,way faster then the .325 that I had on the 550 and the Picco chain rolled along the bar and 2 sprockets like butter with no side effects.
Seeing the OP ROB 5073 has the sister saw the 545 this setup would work fine like I said earlier. I suggest he get the 16" bar or 18" in the 3/8 LoPro if he can find it.
I remember years ago I ran Picco on my Stihl 066 with no problems miiling lumber and it worked even better with the Picco 7 T standard spline spur drum #1122 640 200 with all the extra power the 066 put out.
But for the power of a 545 or 550XP the standard 3/8 small spline rim sprocket is all that is needed, just make sure to have the 3/8 LoPro nosed bar to back it up.
Here's some pics I took today of the 550 with the Stihl Picco 63PS , other photos of the Picco wrapped around several standard 3/8 rim sprockets including a 13 Tooth 3/8 standard .
Last 2 pics are what doesn't work: a standard 3/8 chain wrapped around and not meshing with a Picco 3/8 rim sprocket ,
And lastly from some misguided advice from Grandedog [Greg] he said run Picco chain on a 8 Tooth .404 rim sprocket , as my pic shows it sure doesn't mesh there. :D
 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

 

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: Narrow Kerf Chain
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2013, 04:17:56 pm »
Ditto  :D
Well webgal, did you learn anything from my last post to Niko ;)
I know your not a official Stihl dealer at Bailey's , but what LoPro sprockets setup do you sell for your LogoSol mills for Stihl 660's etc.?
I know LogO Sol supplied Picco sprocket drums for the big saws , do you still supply them?
I understand you have to be neutral on the Stihl sawchain sales issue I  referred to in previous threads.