Timber jack 230 with Perkins diesel

Mountain_d · December 10, 2013, 06:38:33 PM

I am kicking tires on skidders and logging at a TJ230 with a Perkins engine instead of the usual 3-53 Detriot. If anyone can give me any info on reliability, cold starting and fuel burn on the Perkins would be appreciated. ED

PaYoungBuck · December 10, 2013, 08:26:45 PM

Never had a Perkins in a skidder but I have had them in plenty of tractors. They are bullet proof and not bad on fuel all depends if you worked them plowing they'd drink it if you were raking hay they'd sip it

Maine logger88 · December 10, 2013, 08:32:18 PM

Is it a 4-236 those where in a lot of different things including Massy Ferguson tractors I know they worked good and were easy on fuel I don't know as far as cold starting I was never around one in the winter

Red Good · December 11, 2013, 01:06:27 AM

I have a triple in my massey tractor still , 40 ish hp , use it lots with a brush hog and it just sips even at max rpm . We have been cold for us here lately and went out to start it today and it fired right off . 28 degrees . I like it a bunch .

timberjackrob · December 12, 2013, 08:00:55 AM

we have had perkins engines in massey tractors ever since I was a kid they are a very reliable motor easy to get parts for as for cold starting as long as all the electrical system is in good condition starter, battery, cables,etc are in good condition have never been a problem maybe a small shot of starting fluid when it gets below 25 if it not equipped with manifold heater or block heater.

redprospector · December 12, 2013, 07:03:22 PM

I've had several different Perkins diesels over the years. My 1250 Vermeer chipper has the 4-236. I've never had a problem starting it, and It would run wide open for probably 6 hours a day on maybe 10 or 12 gallons max.
I've got a Perkapillar (a Perkins that says Cat on the valve cover) that was in a 2001 ASV 4810 (Gyro-Trak GT-10). Running a mulching head it would burn 30 to 35 gallons a day, but that was wide open all day long. They are pretty good engine's as far as I'm concerned. I've never had one in a skidder though.

Andy

1270d · December 12, 2013, 08:13:03 PM

We ve got a Perkins in a Ponsse forwarder. Its easy on fuel. Doesn't start the greatest. Won't start in winter without a preheater. 5 degrees and under. Have to give it some respect though as it is probably over 20000 hrs. (Changed hour meters)

Mountain_d · December 17, 2013, 11:00:02 PM

Ok, thanks for the info on the Perkins. Some good fuel burn info.

loggah · December 18, 2013, 08:17:01 AM

Most of the older Perkins had a glow plug in the intake manifold that ignited a fuel spray to preheat the combustion air. If this is working the generally start right up.Don

Stefcarse · December 13, 2020, 08:13:22 PM

How much should i offer for a 1978 230 Eaton in good shape with perkins motor, 4 ice chains but poor tires (2 are done)

Thank you!

Mountain_d · December 13, 2020, 08:40:10 PM

In my area (Ottawa Canada) you would see something like that asking 15000 Canadian. Assuming average mechanical condition for the age. That is assuming the tires hold air and will last. You see lots of skidders with bald tires and good chains that get around fine. If tires will need to be replaced, be sure to price out the tires. They are not cheap. I think 2 new forestry tires would be in the area of $4000 Canadian. So, that will affect the price for sure.

Glenn · December 14, 2020, 08:28:51 AM

I live in basically the same area as you and have been around many timber jacks. I have never seen a perkins in one !

bushmechanic · December 14, 2020, 10:09:51 AM

The engine itself is a good engine, in a skidder in my area they never lasted. My opinion is that the hills were too steep for the oil sump and they would starve for oil. Most every one around here threw a rod and busted a hole in the block. I personally have replaced three with 353's all went the same way. They were all in Timberjack 217D models, all came with 4.236 Perkins from the factory.

Satamax · December 15, 2020, 04:39:59 PM

Quote from: bushmechanic on December 14, 2020, 10:09:51 AM
The engine itself is a good engine, in a skidder in my area they never lasted. My opinion is that the hills were too steep for the oil sump and they would starve for oil. Most every one around here threw a rod and busted a hole in the block. I personally have replaced three with 353's all went the same way. They were all in Timberjack 217D models, all came with 4.236 Perkins from the factory.

That's good to know. I have two perkins!
Usual problems, priming pump getting dirty, and the return line sucks air! Cracked thermostart line. Sucks air in. Often starter motors are a pain to change.
The very usual problem with CAV DPA pumps, the pump cover leaks when hot and it starts to stutter, and sends air back to the filter, via the return line. Then, when fuel filter is full of air, it stops!
All of mine start with ether in the winter.
For the rest, i quite like those.

Andries · December 15, 2020, 05:03:42 PM

Quote from: Satamax on December 15, 2020, 04:39:59 PM. . . . Cracked thermostart line. Sucks air in. . . .

@Satamax and @loggah, my two loaders have the Perkins engines with the Thermostart manifold heater in them.
.
From Don (loggah): "Most of the older Perkins had a glow plug in the intake manifold that ignited a fuel spray to preheat the combustion air. If this is working the generally start right up.Don"
.
I'm not too eager to use ether, there's just too many stories of that resulting in chipped piston heads. I've got good block heaters in them, but often wondered if it would be worth the effort when I have to leave the machine where it can't be plugged in.
.
In your opinion, is it worth the trouble to trouble shoot the Thermostat, and bring them back to working order? The answer may help the OP out as well, as skidders usually work far from electrical outlets.

Satamax · December 15, 2020, 05:50:19 PM

I will bleed the one in the AT 6.354. And see if it gets better, but my climate is similar to canuckland.

The AT 4.236 isn't fixable IMHO.

One good trick, would be to have the thermostart onto a little mechanical timer. Like, you turn the knob, and thermostart preheats for 2 minutes. Before you start the engine. No holding the key, and counting.

I have something similar on the heated windscreen of the Brimont. Having something like a little diesel hairdryer, or hot air gun, would be fantastic! :D

mike_belben · December 15, 2020, 07:43:16 PM

Ether is not so bad if its wiffed in while cranking. But most people by themselves are soaking a filter then jumpin in and thats when it takes the ring lands off one hole.

My international has a port on the dash with a cap and nylon tubing to the intake so that in an emergency i can squirt it from the drive seat while cranking. Just go easy. Press pause press pause press pause. Dont drown it.

Ed_K · December 16, 2020, 06:22:35 AM

Before I had my 4-53 rebuilt I found that if I put the can of ether on the defroster in the truck on the way to work it would spray a finer mist when starting the engine. Now that it been rebuilt it starts down to 10°, but I have a 750 watt thermostat an genny so at 30° I plug it in, no ether.

mudfarmer · December 16, 2020, 08:19:43 PM

Mike I had a deere backhoe here for a while with the same setup. The can of ether went in the cab, tube routed to intake and you pushed a button. The engineers wanted you to do it if you had to, but wanted you to do it right ;D That thing always started fine in the cold anyway though with beefed up batteries, fresh larger cables etc.

Belarus tractor has a disconnect for the hydraulic pump so you aren't trying to turn cold hydraulic fluid on startup. Shut off hydraulics, start engine wait for it to warm up, shut down engine, re-engage hydraulics start back up and go to work.

@bushmechanic Did you ever have the oil pan off one? Wondering if you think the oil pickup could be modified to handle steeper angles without worries? Or if you had to maybe a dry-sump? Skin the cat however you can type deal

Mountain_d · December 19, 2020, 08:08:56 AM

Quote from: Glenn on December 14, 2020, 08:28:51 AM
I live in basically the same area as you and have been around many timber jacks. I have never seen a perkins in one !

Glen, the one I am thinking of was a 217 for sale near me about 7 years ago. By the time I called the guy it was sold. It was a 4-236 Perkins.
Mountain

bushmechanic · December 20, 2020, 08:59:49 AM

mudfarmer I never even pulled the oil pan on most of those damaged Perkins for at that time there were lots of 353's kicking around and they worked well and easy to swap over. I've rebuilt quite a few 4.236 over the years and in certain applications they are wonderful engines. Farm tractors, excavators, fork lifts etc no issues.

Satamax · December 20, 2020, 01:27:55 PM

Quote from: Satamax on December 15, 2020, 05:50:19 PM
I will bleed the one in the AT 6.354. And see if it gets better, but my climate is similar to canuckland.

Tried to bleed the thermostart, and it bled OK. But Even the thermostart gets hot. Starting is no better! At -7c°

HOW THE FLAME HEATER WORKS ON A PERKINS DIESEL - YouTube

Mountain_d · December 24, 2020, 07:06:10 AM

Thanks for the video. That is one serious pre-heater! You think with that and some good synthetic 0-40 engine oil it should start down pretty cold.
Mountain