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Ripping chain for a chainsaw mill

Started by Beefie, December 08, 2013, 10:20:02 PM

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Beefie

So while I await the arrival of my chainsaw mill. I need to get two chains setup for ripping. I am going to be using full comp stihl chisel chain. The question I have is I understand I need to cut the top plate at 90 but what do you set the other angle at? Tried to do a search but didn't find my answer.

Any one have any pictures?

Thanks again guys for your help.

Beefie

Brucer

The 0° top plate angle (at right angles to the bar) is correct. I've been told that a 5° angle works a little better. File is dead level (assuming the chainsaw is also level ;D).

I set the hook angle at 45°. Easy to do if you have a chain grinder. If you're hand filing, a couple of shims between the guide and the file will do -- you want to push the file down further from the top of the tooth. I think Wil used bits of matchbook or thick cardstock. I used to use a hand-held powered unit (similar to the Oregon one). It had a set of different shims for different stone diameters so I just inserted an extra one that brought the stone down to the proper depth.

The chain cut way better than conventional ripping chain.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Beefie

Okay 90 and 45. I have a chain grinder that I think I can get that out of. I thought I read something about removing or modifying the third tooth as well? any suggestions?

Beefie

Gasawyer

Beefie I use 10deg top angle and the hook angle on my grinder is fixed. And the chain cuts great, of course I started with ripping chain. Good luck with your new mill!
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

mmartone

Just wondering why you dont just buy a few ripping chains?
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

HaroldSiefke

Here are some pics and info on how to change .063 chisel bit chain to ripping chain... 

  

  

  

 
Harold

Brucer

Quote from: Beefie on December 09, 2013, 12:00:33 AM
.... I thought I read something about removing or modifying the third tooth as well? ...

The "original" ripping chain had two regular teeth followed by two teeth with no tops. I tried that when I first started CS milling. After reading Malloff's book, I reground a regular chain to conform to his suggestions (as I described above) and it was significantly faster.

There is a fundamental difference between crosscutting and ripping. When you're crosscutting, you are slicing through the fibres with the sides of the teeth. The top of the tooth just scrapes out the severed pieces. You need that 30° (+/-) to give the sides of the teeth a cutting edge.

When you are ripping, the top of the teeth is severing the fibres. The sides don't really contribute to the cutting action. That's why the 45° angle (which Malloff copied from circular mills).

The downside of grinding down a regular chain as I did is that you have to grind away a good deal of the tooth to get that "straight across" profile. These days you can buy "ripping chain" with a 5° angle across the top. You could probably use these  as-is, or regrind them to 0° without wasting a lot of tooth.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Brucer

I noticed that Amazon has copies of "the book". New & used, pricey but well worth it in my opinion.

"Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Malloff and Beth Erickson  (Aug 1982) 
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Beefie

Thanks guys for the info. Thank you Harold for posting those pages for me. That helps a lot. Brucer that book is going to be under the tree this year I hope. Way to much information not to have it on hand.

Someone had asked Why I don't just buy ripping chain. 2 reason's why I don't.
1. I have 6 or 7 chains for one of my bars, 2 chains are getting down to near the end but not used up. I have a chain grinder to modify the chains as described in this thread.

2. I really like how the stihl chain doesn't stretch as bad as other chains. Tried other brands and was just not happy with them. Just my feelings and what I have encountered. I don't think Stihl makes a ripping chain. Thus make my own, plus gives me a chance to warm up by the wood furnace while I grind.

3 Almost forgot "If Momma ain't happy nobody happy" I need to show her some lumber before I go buying more toys....... I mean more tools. She has said I spent enough for now lets see you use it. I did tell her its cheaper than if I bought a Band mill. I guess she didn't buy that one.

Thanks for the help guys still awaiting my notification that the mills have been shipped.

Beefie

Beefie

So if I have read this right. I can just go straight down my cutters and do left and right cutters with one setup? Un like if you are doing regular chain where you have to do all the rights than switch and do all the lefts?

Beefie

If I get this figured out I will post pictures of how I do it for others to see, we all learn from each other and are never to old to learn new things.

HaroldSiefke

On my chainsaw grinder you can only do one side at a time but mine is different then the one in the book. But I suppose if it is set at 90 degrees then on that type you should be able to do both sides. My grinder is a old simonton swing arm with a reversible motor. It is a great grinder for chisel bit chains. Good luck.   Hal
Harold

Beefie

My grinder is just a nock off of a Oregon 510 grinder. Works well for me. Some day I would like to own a silvey grinder. Not sure if that would be able to do the grind or not.

Beefie

losttheplot

If your current chains have a 35° top plate angle, you could try reducing the angle by 5° each time you sharpen the chain.
You may find you dont have to go down to 0°/90° to get satisfactory results.

Good luck.  :)

LTP.




DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Brucer

Quote from: Beefie on December 10, 2013, 09:15:15 AM
So if I have read this right. I can just go straight down my cutters and do left and right cutters with one setup?

That's right.  :)

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

fat olde elf

If you guys keep it up you will have all of Malloff's great book on line......I used Lost the plot's approach and reduced the angle in 5 degree increments with each sharpening. At one point I had 11 chains on the job.  I slowed down on chain saw mlling after I bought my Cooks MP32 band mill at age 65. CSM is still a great way to start milling but it helps to have a relatively young back.  My back is now 76 years old.....Say your prayers..............
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

terrifictimbersllc

One thing to keep in mind is that Malloff was mostly milling softwoods.    That 45 degree side angle is very aggressive and grabby. I wouldn't make up a lot of chain before finding out how well it works for you.   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Seaman

X  2  what terriffictembers said.
I learned the hard way and ruined a couple of chains. My advice would be buy a RIPPING CHAIN at 5 deg to start with, and make subtle changes as necessary.
I keep learning that it's hard to beat a man at his own game.
All my experience is on a Lucas slabber,  but I imagine the physics is the same.
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Beefie

Thanks guys for all your help and info.

So if I shouldn't set my hook angle at 45°, what should I set it at to start?

I have 4 chains that I am going to be changing over to ripping chain. 2 @ 20" and 2 @ 28" Maybe this weekend I can start on some of them. I have a pine log to practice on and make really good boards or really flat easy stacking firewood.

Beefie

DDobbs

I have both stock Stihl and Woodland Pro ripping chains
I run both 36" & 48" bars . I don't see that much difference.
Like was said earlier use them as they are and if you see the need start changing the angle.

Dave
EZ Boardwalk 40
Ez Boradwalk Jr.sold 11/7/2015
Stihl 650 Stihl 290

Beefie

DDobbs do you mean Stihl has a ripping chain or that you have used a stock Stihl Chain to rip with? If Stihl does have a ripping chain, which I do not know if they have, I can get it thru work.

Beefie

DDobbs

Quote from: Beefie on December 12, 2013, 07:46:29 PM
DDobbs do you mean Stihl has a ripping chain or that you have used a stock Stihl Chain to rip with? If Stihl does have a ripping chain, which I do not know if they have, I can get it thru work.

Beefie

No it is a stock yellow paint Stihl chain  114 drive links on my 36" they rip good.
EZ Boardwalk 40
Ez Boradwalk Jr.sold 11/7/2015
Stihl 650 Stihl 290

HolmenTree

Quote from: Brucer on December 09, 2013, 11:37:06 PM
I noticed that Amazon has copies of "the book". New & used, pricey but well worth it in my opinion.

"Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Malloff and Beth Erickson  (Aug 1982)
Brucer, I once had Malloff's book until someone borrowed it and the 2 disappeared. Good book with high quality photos of big timber.
What ever happened to Will Malloff? He used to have a website then he disappeared, I know he had health issues.  Seeing you 2 are both from B.C I thought you might know something about him.

Also I tried chisel bit .404  chain on my 090 -36" Alaskan once and found the square ground filed at 10° milled pretty good.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Brucer

I've checked in on Will's website from time to time. It was more out of curiosity than anything. He had a real passion for using chainsaws to mill wood and he was constantly inventing new devices to let you do more. I didn't stay involved with chainsaw milling because I saw an opportunity and bought a portable bandmill instead.

Will lived on the coast, while I'm several hundred kilometres (and several mountain ranges) inland. I know a woman in town who knew him at one time. She's the one who told me about his website. Next time I see her I'll ask if she's heard anything of him recently.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

5quarter

What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

HolmenTree

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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