Will diesel lube cause wear and tear?

[reswire]

I've heard a lot of people say they use diesel fuel to lubricate their bands when milling.  My mill has belts around it's band wheels, and I was curious if the fuel will cause those belts to deteriorate early.  I know what oil or gas can do to plastic and some other surfaces, but didn't know about the belts.  Any worries or problems with yours?

[sawguy21]

I wouldn't use a petroleum product.

[Alyeska Pete]

I'm one of the people who do use diesel fuel to lubricate their bands when milling. My mill has crowned 26" steel wheels that carry and drive (pull) the band.  If you use belted wheels, the diesel fuel will probably not extend the useful life of the belts.  Having said that, it may be worth trying just to find out how much of a problem it may or may not cause. If it's not shortening the life of the belts by much, the benefits may be worth it.  My bands and wheels never gum up, never rust, and the cold winters here never freeze the lube.
However my results are with the aforementioned steel wheels and with Cook's double drip and wick system which uses less than a few ounces of diesel in an entire day of sawing. A flood system typically used with water systems would be out of the question as you would use gallons instead of ounces which would be an ecological and fire hazard besides being a mess. It would keep the mosquitoes away though.

[HaroldSiefke]

I use a diesel , bar oil  mix about 50/50 in my woodland mill and it has belts. I have only good things to say about it. I apply it also with a wick system that i made, I think there is a pitcher of it in my gallery. My belts seem to last good. I have been sawing some really pitchy pine and my blade always stays nice and clean. I use to use water and murphys oil soap and it seemed like I was always putting more in or having to worry about it freezing and breaking my tank and it never kept my blade clean like it is now and now it seems to last forever, and no worries ever. Good luck and happy sawing. Hal

[5quarter]

Depends on the belts I suppose. Not all belts are created equal. I use belts made by Goodyear (USA made) and on the occasions I use diesel to clean the band, I have seen no ill effects, and I inspect my bandwheel belts frequently.

[hackberry jake]

All I use is a diesel bar oil mix. I have tried both diesel and water based mixes and I will never go back. I have over three years and prolly about 10,000 boardfoot on my band wheels. People like magicman saw a lot more than I do in a year and they use water based mixes. I suppose it depends on a lot of things but I am a diesel man. I only use it when my band needs it. I dont use a "drip" system. More like a "squirt it when its built up" system.

[stavebuyer]

I run 1 1/2" .055 blades. My belts usually get dissected by a broken blade before they wear out. I haven't tried the diesel on this mill but used it with great results on my previous crowned steel wheel mill. If I was cutting pine or hickory I wouldn't hesitate to try it especially with a wick type set up.

[47sawdust]

I've used a diesel fuel /bar oil mix for 6 years with good results.I use winter weight bar oil as it mixes easier.I like not having to worry about a water solution in sub-freezing conditions.No ill effect on belts.

[ladylake]

 
I use water in the summer and diesel in the winter, no ill effects on the belts.  If the belts are rounded over after using water all summer the blade can come off when switching to diesel, new belts cure that.    Steve

[diesel pap]

i use diesel also. thats what the mfg of my mill (ezboardwalk) said to use.

[thecfarm]

This is almost as bad as the The Great Oil War.  :D
I only saw a little bit,and have used half bar and chain and diesel. Had my mill for 10 years now. But that is only a very SLOW drip. Not like it's coming out at steady stream. A gallon will last me a long time.I have two shut offs,one to adjust the flow and one to shut off when not in use. I have sawed some cedar for the wife's woman cave and it looks good. The whole cave was sawed out using the above lube.

[rmack]

think I'm going to start keeping a can of wd40 handy for pitch pockets etc. 

dont see why I couldn't just spray it right on the blade as it is cutting

[AnthonyW]

I just received two new belts from WM made by Goodyear. They appear to be made like automotive belts. If they are then I would suspect the Goodyear and NAPA (reference to and from another thread) should be fairly resistant to diesel, gasoline, and similar petroleum products. It also appears that Suffolk Machinery/Timberwolf makes replacement belts for some bandmills. But those belts are made from urethane. The urethane belts and vinyl feed tubing from the lube tank will react with diesel, gasoline, and the like. They will dry, harden, and crack. I suspect one of the previous owners of my mill (as I am owner #3) used diesel. The lube tubing was so hard I was able to break it after bending it twice. One wheel belt flew apart under full pressure before reaching full RPM, the other belt broke when I tried to remove it. The old belts are in the trash in no less than ten pieces.

FYI. Tygon tubing does not react with gasoline, etc. and thus never hardens. But is 4-5x more expensive than vinyl.

[chickenchaser]

think I'm going to start keeping a can of wd40 handy for pitch pockets etc. 

dont see why I couldn't just spray it right on the blade as it is cutting

rmack,

I have used WD40. I have also used PB Blaster penetrating catyalyst. It sprays a stream without having to use the "straw". I now use the 50/50 diesel/bar oil mix in the plastic quart-sized household sprayer with the adjustable nozzle. Next will be a one gallon garden sprayer with a brass wand. I only spray when needed (pitch starting to build up) and when I am going to change blades. A clean blade is really nice when it's time to sharpen.

Having said that - a wick would be wick-ed...

CC

[Cypress Sam]

I have used diesel and transmission oil when cutting bull pine{heavy pitch}.  It will swell your belts after prolonged use but that is cheaper than cleaning blades all day.

[kensfarm]

I kept looking at this thread and kept thinking up questions I had..  I've only used water mix.. been sawing for over a year now.  Def. willing to try it.. was thinking of trying the squirt bottle approach first.

If you changed from water to diesel/oil.. what drip system changes did you do? Different tank?
Do you see less sawdust buildup around the guides, belts, output?
Do you ever have a problem w/ staining on the wood?
If you use diesal/oil.. have you tried ATF..  anyone compare?

[Migal]

 ;) Oh boy what a question! I use on/off road diesel meaning which is abundant. I buy off road but do accept free any road .
       My mill is a LogMaster LM2 with a Cat. Ive used diesel from the get go with only one time pitch build up when I was greener and was thinking that drip was a lot. I left my Lube on one night and used a whole quart while not sawing Okay a drip is still a drip. I have no idea of changing it. Hay it works, My belts drive the Band Wheel they seem to be just fine two years coming up soon. The diesel seems to lube more than just the band to me the V track that the Head rig runs on and its wheels also stay un rusted to my dismay I do use wd40 in a squirt can but not on the blade on the chrome rods and anything shinny lol. My manufacture recommends diesel and that is what I use the wood that I have produced has not shown any ill defects from it. I would recommend it unless the owners manual says NO.

[Dave VH]

I don't get to saw a whole lot, but I use diesel.  It works great for me.  Ofcourse up to now i've only gotten to work with hardwoods.  I've got about 40 pine logs in the side yard that is about to change my experience,  we'll see if the diesel still does the trick.

[ohsoloco]

I tried it for a short time on my Lumbermate that uses belts.  I wanted to try it because I was having trouble with build up when milling pine, spruce, and ash (these are the worst culprits).  I just used the squirt method whenever it needed it since I didn't want to convert my lube system over without trying it first.  I would also give it a little shot at the end of the day, or before changing blades to keep the blades from rusting. 

It wasn't long before I had trouble with blades popping off during a cut even when they were sharp.  Then got so bad I would put a blade on, and when the blade came up to speed it would immediately pop off.  Maybe I just used too much of the stuff, but once I got diesel or any kind of oil on the belts I couldn't keep the blades on.  It's water all the way for me, with a shot of dish soap or pine sol if things get too pitchy.

[HaroldSiefke]

Osoloco I am curious if you have flat topped belts or ones with a crown? I found on my mill I have to use crowned belts or my blade would pop off to. I noticed that since I bought my woodland mill they have change to selling there mill with flat top belts. When I bought my mill from them it came with crowned belts. Good luck.

[5quarter]

Ohsoloco...I've never heard of that happening before. perhaps, your tension was too low, or the bandwheels  may not be properly aligned, or even the belts themselves may be damaged . diesel on the belts may aggravate some other trouble that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. just something to think about. 

[ohsoloco]

I've been getting my "B" belts from the local NAPA store.  Not really sure if they're crowned or now, but I don't think so.  Blade tracks just fine, and I have the tension as far as I can get it set.  Cuts fine when using water (and sometimes) soap, or windshield washer fluid in the winter, so I'm sticking with what works for me 

[Wellmud]

Does anyone have a picture of their diesel drip or wick system? I looked through a couple peoples galleries but there is potentially hundreds of pictures to look through. When using the diesel mix, do you end up with a grime film on your mill from the petroluem and dust?

[thecfarm]

Mine is just a piece of copper pipe,about 6-8 inches long that will fit inside of clear tubing.It's bent to allow the drip to go on top of the blade.That is why the you need a length of hard pipe,copper bends easy too. I have 2 shut offs,one to adjust the flow and one to turn off and on as needed. On that side of the mill there is some film from the diesel,but if someone kept up on it there would be none.

[5quarter]

Wellmud...Member KelLog Has numerous pics of his system in his gallery.

[HaroldSiefke]

Go to search and type in, anatomy of my double 2- sided blade oiler . Then click on the topic and that will show you the post about it. Hal

[Wellmud]

Thanks guys, I found the post. Did'nt mean to hijack Reswire's post just wanted to expand on it. I like the sound of clean blades and no rust, I was sawing ash using water and getting some buildup (not bad), but then again I'm just learning to saw and not a real sawyer ;D

[thecfarm]

Wellmud,I see you are new here. Have you seen this thread?
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,70033.msg1051353.html

There are many more too. I went to the search bar,upper right of this page,put in blade lube cascade and click on to the arrow beside this topic and change to this board,since you are in the Sawmill board all ready.Press search.

And what kind of sawmill you got? manual,hyd? hp? What's the plan for all of the lumber?

[Wellmud]

thecfarm, I have a Woodmizer LT35manual. I own a property in West Virginia that I had a lot of storm blowdown on, oak, cherry, hickory, poplar, I just could'nt stand the thought of leaving it lay and rot. I was going to buy one of the LT28s that were on sale, but I found a used LT35 with a total of 15 minutes run time on it and I could'nt pass up the price. I have a camp on the property I intend expand and some day hope to build a house, but for right now the plan is to just get the logs off the ground and sawed up.

[Mountain Guardian]

I am running a Hudson bandmill and they say to avoid any petroleum based lube on them to avoid excess wear on the belt drive and the idler wheel rubber.  I have not tried to use any petroleum product, I don't know about the rubber they use on the idler wheel but I do know that the vbelt that drives my blade on the other wheel will react poorly to petroleum based products.

I have worn out one belt right at about the 1 year mark, though I have done a lot of cutting in that time, if petroleum shortened the life span any it would not be worth using it for me.

[47sawdust]

I've run diesel/winter weight bar oil for 8  years with no ill effect.Jugs never freeze.1st mill was a Kasco current mill Lt30.
I'm stationary except when I'm moving.

[backwoods sawyer]

I run the belts on the Woodmizer, I like to start off a new saw with a drizzle of diesel, and use it to clean the saw and belts when build up occurs, when I get build up under the belts I remove it with a screw driver and give it a squirt of PB blaster. I get good life out of the belts at about 50,000 bft but they are noticeably "softer" when changed. A set is less than $30 not unlike the $175 for the wide drive belt that I just changed after 200,000 bft.
I feel that if it improves the mills performance, then use it as needed, belts need changed every so often anyway.

[hamish]

I would never use diesel as a lubricant on my mill, I have respect for the land my mill sits on.

[tmarch]

I use used oil (2/3) and off road diesel (1/3) in a hand sprayer for my chipper when I leave it for any time and overnite if it's humid.  WD40 would work I suppose, but a LOT more expensive.  I do use it to remove the pitch when I change blades and so on.

[dail_h]

My first experience with the water  vs diesel / kerosene was sawing reclaimed heartpine beams.Was running a WM,,,and couldnt flow enough water on the bands to keep the pitch off.AGAINST THE ADVICE OF wm,,WE TRIED DIESEL FIRST,,THEN SWITCHED TO KEROSENE.fINALY SETTLED ON ABOUT ONE DROP EVERY COUPLA SECONDS, UNLESS BEAMS WERE EXCESSIVIELY PITCHY.oooopsguess hit the cap locks,,not yelling .I still use kerosene, as the smell is less disagreeable.
On my Lumbermate, everytime I've used water,,I've had trouble with the roller bearings freezing up,,,think the water is somehow getting in them,,causing rust. Just a guess,,but I only use kerosene or diesel.My belts are crowned,, bought localy,,,but always get cut by a broken blade before I notice any petroeum damage.My idler belt is the one that came with the mill in '04, have a new one to put on when it goes bad, lol.

Oso, check the alignment on your belt tensioner wheel. Mine got out of alignment ,,and about made me nuts before Norwood techs helped me out. Was only out a tiny bit,, but was enough to kick drive belt off/ Wrecked 5 or 6 new belts before found it

[CalebL]

I would never use diesel as a lubricant on my mill, I have respect for the land my mill sits on.

You still using a 2 man saw to buck your logs?

[hackberry jake]

I would never use diesel as a lubricant on my mill, I have respect for the land my mill sits on.

You still using a 2 man saw to buck your logs?

smiley_clapping smiley_chop

[Billbob]

Wellmud, here is a pic of the lube wick system I pieced together for my Woodland last week.  It works excellent.  Thin film of lube on both sides of the blade.  Use less lube now which is a diesel/ATF mix.  The blade is always clean.  I started putting together another wick system today which will be the final product.  I'll post some pics when I'm done.
Bill

 

[Migal]

I would never use diesel as a lubricant on my mill, I have respect for the land my mill sits on.

You still using a 2 man saw to buck your logs?

  8)
I use off road Diesel. Sawmill Manufacturer recommended. Have noticed no harm to Machine or Lumber and the cat is still alive  8) So probably Fair to Midland for the environment needed for Farming with say Tractor's that's been around before Me and thinking be here Long after I'm gone.