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Stihl Break-In

Started by brettl, December 06, 2013, 04:55:03 PM

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brettl

This may be a subject that has been beat to death but I couldn't find in a search so here goes. My dad just bought a 180 and I have a 441 with less than 10 tanks. When I bought the 441 I was told there was no break-in period or method of operation required. I saw a post here that mentioned a saw is not broke in until 20 tanks or so. I've not used my 441 very hard yet. Should I continue this until I've used it a certain amount of tanks? Any information on my 441 and the new 180 will be much appreciated.

turnkey

Chainsaws and most 2-cycle yard/garden tools are meant to be run full throttle except for some exceptions.  An example would be finishing a cut on a log laying on the ground where one should "baby" the saw through the last little bit so the chain is barely turning when (if) it touches dirt.

Break-in does make a saw run better but there is no 'procedure' to follow other than running it as it should be, i.e. full throttle.   The MS310 was famous for being rather disappointing out of the box but turned into a fabulous non-pro saw after several tanks.

Harry K

H 2 H

The last two new Stihl I bought took about 15 tanks

But I modded them after just a few tanks  ;D

The 70 cc saw took longer to break in because I couldn't us it as much as the 50 cc saw

Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

brettl

What kind of mods did you do and how did they effect the break in period?

H 2 H

Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

pwheel

Never run the saw wide open throttle out of wood, i.e., without load.
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

Higgins

Quote from: pwheel on December 06, 2013, 08:52:33 PM
Never run the saw wide open throttle out of wood, i.e., without load.

+1

This is generally the rule I follow, also.  Otherwise, have fun!

CTYank

Good idea to not run a new saw long & hard. Periodic "breathers" @ idle for short cool-down seem to help it. Sustained abuse comes later.
A bit richer for first couple of hours of runtime also a good idea. Tweak it later for optimum 2-/4-stroking later.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

brettl

I appreciated the feedback. CTYank, I've wondered about the richening process. We always do this on our rc airplane motors, whether nitro or larger gasoline engines(I have a 102" P-51 with a Quadra 100cc), understanding full well that we'll foul plugs. Most of us burn 32:1 as well and that engine is on the front of an airplane traveling 0 to 100+mph with the propeller acting as a cooling fan. Pretty easy life compared to our saw engines that have a leaner mixture and  so much less cooling, which is why it goes against the grain when some tell me not to richen it a bit for break-in.

It's hard to be well-informed when listening to a select group in one city. Really great to hear from you all nationwide and hear what's worked for you. Think I'll richen the new 180 a bit for the first several tanks. Thanks

7sleeper

Run in procedure for me is

run WOT from the beginning, but only short burts getting always longer as I reach 15-20 refills. So that when cutting a trunk I don't go through in one session but depending on diametre I may let the saw idle shortly on 1/3 to 1/2 of the way. Or use the saw for the first few refills as a limbing saw.

There has been discussion if modern fullsynthetic oils will make run in time longer or good or possible at all, compared to dino oil. Don't know the answer to that one and I only buy full syn oil and I'm not fooling around.

7

John R

Quote from: pwheel on December 06, 2013, 08:52:33 PM
Never run the saw wide open throttle out of wood, i.e., without load.
This makes sense, but every saw I've ever got from the Stihl dealer was run WOT right out of the box by him before I even got to try it out.
John


Sthil MS 361 20" Bar
Sthil MS 260 PRO 16" Bar
Oregon 511 AX Chain Grinder

plt

  If this is the case I'd better let my saw man know. He told me wide open is wide open. It doesn't matter. But not to let it idle for a long time. That will run it hot. I think a lot of us equate all engines in one lump sum.

  My wife Malibu's had instructions to "break it in". My Dodge diesel, I was told to drive it like I stole it.
Duty, the the sublimest word in our language.

Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less.
Robert E Lee.

Ianab

General consensus with modern engines seem to be, run them in the same way you intend to use them.

With a car, that might be 1/2 throttle @ 60 mph out on the open road, as that's where it's going to spend most of it's life.

With as chainsaw, that's wide open, with a normal cutting load, where it's going to spend most of it's working life.

Giving it a quick run wide open will let the dealer know if it's tuned right. If he doesn't do that, he's not checked it properly. Running in on those engines is more about the engine freeing up, and then maybe needing a re-tune once it settles down. I'm sure we have all noticed they run slightly better after a couple of days use, so something is changing inside the engine.

Also, chainsaw carbs are pretty basic, they are designed for 2 states. Idle or Wide Open. In between, yeah, hopefully they work, but they aren't designed to handle that. Mixture may not be perfect. So don't
"Baby" then on 1/2 throttle thinking you are helping the saw.  A car carb (or fuel injection) is designed to run best at part throttle, as that's where a car spends 99% of it's time. Chainsaw, it's designed to run at full revs and cut.  ;Di

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

thecfarm

The saws that I have always brought are tuned by the dealer wide open,under no load. It's only for about 30 seconds,a minute? but each time I hear it like that, it seems a LONG time.
I have heard of only 2 speeds on a chainsaw too. Wide open,under a load and idle.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Oliver1655

During the first 10 tanks or so while the rings are settling in even though you cut at WOT, let the saw cut it's way in to the wood & do not add more than a moderate pressure.  If you feel it takes more pressure to get it to cut, it is time to sharpen the chain/adjust the rakers/depth stop.
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

Ianab

Quote from: Oliver1655 on December 11, 2013, 11:08:51 AM
During the first 10 tanks or so while the rings are settling in even though you cut at WOT, let the saw cut it's way in to the wood & do not add more than a moderate pressure.  If you feel it takes more pressure to get it to cut, it is time to sharpen the chain/adjust the rakers/depth stop.

100% true, but it's also the case the rest of the saw's life too. When it's not cutting properly, time to sharpen. Which goes back to "run the saw in under the same conditions that you will be using it under"
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

CTYank

Quote from: plt on December 10, 2013, 03:29:31 PM
  If this is the case I'd better let my saw man know. He told me wide open is wide open. It doesn't matter. But not to let it idle for a long time. That will run it hot. I think a lot of us equate all engines in one lump sum.

  My wife Malibu's had instructions to "break it in". My Dodge diesel, I was told to drive it like I stole it.

Actually, 2-strokes run COLD at idle. Back in the day, a co-worker said that his 850 cc SAAB would never get near operating temp @idle. Simply would not warm up doing that.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

CTYank

Quote from: thecfarm on December 10, 2013, 03:53:48 PM
The saws that I have always brought are tuned by the dealer wide open,under no load. It's only for about 30 seconds,a minute? but each time I hear it like that, it seems a LONG time.
I have heard of only 2 speeds on a chainsaw too. Wide open,under a load and idle.

Some dealer types insist on adjusting high-speed mixture so that engine speed @WOT meets some spec. An indicator of incompetence, IMHO. No-load @WOT is abusive. Like with auto-tune, mixture should be set for max speed UNDER LOAD. One easy test @WOT if it's right: 2-stroking under load, light 4-stroking when you lift.

Two dealer monkeys insisted on the WOT unloaded speed thing. EPA would have busted them- the engine ran STINKY rich. When I could adjust the carb, 1/2+ turn in got it dead-on. 2-stroking, then, and the 4-stroking transition. It now sings. Beware of dealer "geniuses"- the deaf ones.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

Andyshine77

Andre.

Andyshine77

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 15, 2013, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: CTYank on December 15, 2013, 09:54:50 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on December 10, 2013, 03:53:48 PM
The saws that I have always brought are tuned by the dealer wide open,under no load. It's only for about 30 seconds,a minute? but each time I hear it like that, it seems a LONG time.
I have heard of only 2 speeds on a chainsaw too. Wide open,under a load and idle.

Some dealer types insist on adjusting high-speed mixture so that engine speed @WOT meets some spec. An indicator of incompetence, IMHO. No-load @WOT is abusive. Like with auto-tune, mixture should be set for max speed UNDER LOAD. One easy test @WOT if it's right: 2-stroking under load, light 4-stroking when you lift.

Two dealer monkeys insisted on the WOT unloaded speed thing. EPA would have busted them- the engine ran STINKY rich. When I could adjust the carb, 1/2+ turn in got it dead-on. 2-stroking, then, and the 4-stroking transition. It now sings. Beware of dealer "geniuses"- the deaf ones.

It's completely acceptable and the norm to tune a chainsaw at WOT without load, in fact it's the best method for non rev limited models. However running the saw at WOT for 30 seconds or more, is not advisable, 5 seconds is more than enough. Tuning with a tachometer also requires you to run the saw at WOT without load. Tuning in the wood is fine if you have experience. 

As far as I know, no dealer has been busted buy the EPA for tuning a carb rich for the first few tanks, that's what I do and everyone I know who works on or ports chainsaws. Again rev limited saws are a different story, but you can still set the RPM's just under the limiter, this still requires a WOT run and a tach. One also has to have a good feel of how a saw behaves during testing, some like more fuel than others, some less.

http://youtu.be/ulY5sU4axFQ
Andre.

AKDoug

Guess what... That new Stihl you just bought was run at WOT at the factory before it was shipped.

Al_Smith

Quote from: thecfarm on December 10, 2013, 03:53:48 PM
.
I have heard of only 2 speeds on a chainsaw too. Wide open,under a load and idle.
That's my thoughts .Mine spend very little time at idle .If they don't restart in  one or two tugs I find out why .

I've only owned two new saws in my lifetime,both Poulans but I've rebuilt dozens .What I do is run them a tad rich for a few tanks then lean them down and run them like I stole them . Come or bleed, if she blows she blows .Once the piston rings get fully seated then it sings a new tune  .

thecfarm

Al did you mean, come, skin or bleed. My Father would say that.
On the WOT while tuning it,probably 5 seconds is right,as I said,it seems like a long time.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

Oh I was mentored by tough old hard drinking hard working WW2 vets .Tough as nails but they had a heart as big as Texas .You never knew what they are going to say .I find myself just about like them now of days .I never know myself .It just comes out verbally or slowly typing with one finger at a time . ;D

H 2 H

Anyone seen how they brake in new motors cycle engine for mini sprints ?

They run a different oil in them a brake them in

Then they change the oil to a synthetic oil

Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Andyshine77

Quote from: H 2 H on December 16, 2013, 03:47:13 PM
Anyone seen how they brake in new motors cycle engine for mini sprints ?

They run a different oil in them a brake them in

Then they change the oil to a synthetic oil

I could be wrong, but from what I know, the break in oil you're talking about has a thermally unstable compound in it. This aids in seating everything rapidly, it has nothing to do with oils being synthetic or not. Most think syn oil is slicker than non syn oil, so break in takes longer. This is a misconception, syn oil for the most part is simply more stable and cleaner. This applies to both 4 and 2 cycle oils.       
Andre.

H 2 H

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 16, 2013, 04:26:17 PM
Quote from: H 2 H on December 16, 2013, 03:47:13 PM
Anyone seen how they brake in new motors cycle engine for mini sprints ?

They run a different oil in them a brake them in

Then they change the oil to a synthetic oil

I could be wrong, but from what I know, the break in oil you're talking about has a thermally unstable compound in it. This aids in seating everything rapidly, it has nothing to to with oils being synthetic or not. Most think syn oil is slicker than non syn oil, so break in takes longer. This is a misconception, syn oil for the most part is simply more stable and cleaner. This applies to both 4 and 2 cycle oils.     


That's my point it takes longer to brake in a motor with synthetic oil
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Andyshine77

No it does not. Again syn oil is simply more stable, it's not slicker.

They use break in oil because they don't have time to do so, break in oil works extremely fast. The thermally unstable compound is a fine abrasive that breaks down at a specific temperature, so they don't have to flush the engine over and over.   
Andre.

Al_Smith

Well I work in an automobile engine plant and actually when they used "break in oil " it was oil with a tacking agent .I have no point to prove and no reason to BS anybody.

Now of days new engines because of the tighter tollerences are shipped with 5w20 semi synthetic . When I go back to work this Wed. I can even get you the tox number and who makes it .

H 2 H

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 16, 2013, 04:54:49 PM
No it does not. Again syn oil is simply more stable, it's not slicker.

They use break in oil because the don't have time to do so, break in oil works extremely fast. The thermally unstable compound is a fine abrasive that breaks down at a specific temperature, so they don't have to flush the engine over and over.

So your saying synthetic oil breaks in a motor faster than break in oil ?

They will run those motors on the dyno to break them in with break in oil in them

Been at this game (mini sprint) for many years and seen them building motors; how many years do you have at building motors ?


Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Al_Smith

 :D To fuel the fire let me say something .When I rebuild an engine ,chainsaw,lawnmower ,tractor whatever ,I put enough  oil on the cylinders it smokes for 5 minutes .Chainsaws I use 30 WT motor oil .4 cycles I use STP .So there lah te dah  8)

thecfarm

Al why not use just use synthetic oil. fire_smiley
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

Why not use KY jelly ,it's synthetic  in a manner of speaking< --right under the wire again good ole Al hit a home run again ;D 

H 2 H

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 16, 2013, 08:51:20 PM
:D To fuel the fire let me say something .When I rebuild an engine ,chainsaw,lawnmower ,tractor whatever ,I put enough  oil on the cylinders it smokes for 5 minutes .Chainsaws I use 30 WT motor oil .4 cycles I use STP .So there lah te dah  8)

Me to  ;D
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

ZeroJunk

I have used synthetic for the last twenty years in everything, even lawn mowers, pressure washers, etc. As far as multi viscosity motor oils I think the big thing is that they maintain there multi viscosity longer. As far as two cycle oil I think the big thing is that it burns cleaner leaving less carbon residue. I don't go through any break- in process on a chainsaw. It is a little like break-in on a rifle barrel. You can believe whatever you want, but it is hard to prove anything.

Al_Smith

Well what the hey a guy who's  been around race cars for decades and a nutty ex sub sailor a half a bubble out of plumb .Why argue .--my wife asks me why I act this way--it's not an act . ;)

H 2 H

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 16, 2013, 09:12:22 PM
Well what the hey a guy who's  been around race cars for decades and a nutty ex sub sailor a half a bubble out of plumb .Why argue .--my wife asks me why I act this way--it's not an act . ;)

I've been around racing since 68 been really in to sprint cars (full size and mini sprints) 25 plus years been on teams doing just about everything there is to do with them. Worked on some healthy motors (sprint cars and mini sprints) helped put motors together and then running them on dyno to the wee hours of the morning 
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Andyshine77

Quote from: H 2 H on December 16, 2013, 08:36:08 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 16, 2013, 04:54:49 PM
No it does not. Again syn oil is simply more stable, it's not slicker.

They use break in oil because the don't have time to do so, break in oil works extremely fast. The thermally unstable compound is a fine abrasive that breaks down at a specific temperature, so they don't have to flush the engine over and over.

So your saying synthetic oil breaks in a motor faster than break in oil ?

They will run those motors on the dyno to break them in with break in oil in them

Been at this game (mini sprint) for many years and seen them building motors; how many years do you have at building motors ?

I specifically said break in oil works better and or faster. However there is no difference between syn or non syn oil during normal break in when time isn't an issue. Maybe I can't explain myself clearly, but I thought I did fairly well.
Andre.

Andyshine77

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 16, 2013, 09:12:22 PM
Well what the hey a guy who's  been around race cars for decades and a nutty ex sub sailor a half a bubble out of plumb .Why argue .--my wife asks me why I act this way--it's not an act . ;)

And how many times have I beat you in cant racing? I now have quite a few runners out there and you know it, you've ran them.

Sorry Al, not trying to be mean, but you know I've been around the block a few times myself, and you know that as fact old friend. :)
Andre.

Al_Smith

On the cants--never ,when did that happen? I don't remember anybody using a stop watch in several years other than playing around and never one on one since I ran at Chardon.Fact I don't remember even cutting any cants for several years in a compeatative situation.Maybe just playing around a little .

Now Andy this is not implying you don't have some runners .Most likely you did have faster times than I but it was never heads up one on one .Never the less what's all that got to do with oil in the first place ?

H 2 H

Andy you just wanted to argue about it

I feel really bad im not a cant racer

"And how many times have I beat you in cant racing? I now have quite a few runners out there and you know it, you've ran them.

Sorry Al, not trying to be mean, but you know I've been around the block a few times myself, and you know that as fact old friend."


Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

Al_Smith

Well what the hey I'm not a cant racer either .I build high torque work saws and restore antiques .

3/10ths of a second faster on an 8 inch square chunk of green poplar means very little other than it cuts square wood faster .It's fun but in the real world it means very little in a day in the woods with wood with bark still on it .

Al_Smith

Moving right along and attempting to keep on target back to Stihl break in .
I've only owned two new saws but I've ran a bunch that belong to tree service companies as I help out with two of them with their equipment .

Generally speaking after a few tanks of fuel they perk right up .Keep in mind though everything is nice and round and within factory tollerances so it doesn't take long to "wear in " .

Now comes a rebuilt with a used cylinder and piston with new rings .Things appear to be round and without taper in the cylinder but it really isn't .They will come in as good as new but it takes a lot longer to break in .In other words it's wearing in as it's wearing out ,kind of .

ZeroJunk

I just started rebuilding saws last week. Don't need one, just like to cut cookies. I didn't do any special break in on this one and it is still running. Got about 1/2 a tank through it.

Andyshine77

Quote from: H 2 H on December 17, 2013, 07:26:31 AM
Andy you just wanted to argue about it

I feel really bad im not a cant racer

"And how many times have I beat you in cant racing? I now have quite a few runners out there and you know it, you've ran them.

Sorry Al, not trying to be mean, but you know I've been around the block a few times myself, and you know that as fact old friend."

No argument intended, I think you may have simply misunderstood the context in some of my posts.

Marry Christmas.
Andre.

Al_Smith

Oil has gotten better .Things are built to tighter more accurate fits etc .Not too long ago new automobiles were indeed shipped with break in oil .You kept the speed below 65 say and changed the break in  to regular oil and put the hammer down after about 500 miles .

Now of days you just get in it and go .Change the oil after 3000 miles and go again .After say 10,000 it goes to 5,000 miles between oil changes .

They might talk about the "good old days " but quite frankly these are the good old days by comparrison .

Andyshine77

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 17, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
.Never the less what's all that got to do with oil in the first place ?

You and H2H were asking about my experience in an attempt to discredit what I was "trying" to say, I answered.

I've done countless hours of research on the subject at hand, and some testing of my own, but nothing scientific obviously. When talking about breaking in a saw, as others have already said, simply run the saw, any approved oil will do just fine.
Andre.

Andyshine77

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 17, 2013, 04:50:33 PM
Oil has gotten better .Things are built to tighter more accurate fits etc .Not too long ago new automobiles were indeed shipped with break in oil .You kept the speed below 65 say and changed the break in  to regular oil and put the hammer down after about 500 miles .

Now of days you just get in it and go .Change the oil after 3000 miles and go again .After say 10,000 it goes to 5,000 miles between oil changes .

They might talk about the "good old days " but quite frankly these are the good old days by comparrison .

Sounds about right to me.  :P
Andre.

Al_Smith

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 17, 2013, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Al_Smith on December 17, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
.Never the less what's all that got to do with oil in the first place ?

You and H2H were asking about my experience in an attempt to discredit what I was "trying" to say, I answered.

   
Andy Andy Andy .I think you are getting a little thin skinned in your old age .Tell me this though since you brought it up what does cutting cants have anything to do with oil or breaking in a saw ? For the record also I might add I've been outcut my somebody else running my saws .I can build them I never said I could run them . ;)

Andyshine77

Al I'm not going to go ten rounds, have a good one.
Andre.

Al_Smith

Okay Andy .It was fun,have a nice Christmas  ;D

H 2 H

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 17, 2013, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Al_Smith on December 17, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
.Never the less what's all that got to do with oil in the first place ?

You and H2H were asking about my experience in an attempt to discredit what I was "trying" to say, I answered.

I've done countless hours of research on the subject at hand, and some testing of my own, but nothing scientific obviously. When talking about breaking in a saw, as others have already said, simply run the saw, any approved oil will do just fine.

My research is hands on - working with motors  ;D
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

turnkey

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 17, 2013, 04:55:53 PM
Quote from: Al_Smith on December 17, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
.Never the less what's all that got to do with oil in the first place ?

You and H2H were asking about my experience in an attempt to discredit what I was "trying" to say, I answered.

I've done countless hours of research on the subject at hand, and some testing of my own, but nothing scientific obviously. When talking about breaking in a saw, as others have already said, simply run the saw, any approved oil will do just fine.

Yep, and a quart of oil/1000miles was considered good back then.  Now?  No add between changes.

Harry K

Al_Smith

Ya know a discussion of simpley breaking in a saw soon escalates to what type of oil and you get then a thousand opinions .That's cool .It might as it has further transform into modified engines .That's cool too but of the chainsaw owners in this country that might be less than 10 percent probabley closer to less than 5 percent .

They are neat no matter who built the engine .However it comes down to pride of ownership and bragging rights .If you didn't do at least a portion of the mods you simpley have no bragging rights .Anybody with enough money can have someone else do the work .That's just the way I feel and make no aplologies for that fact .

martyinmi

I bought a new VW Jetta TDI (it's a diesel) back in October.
They put a special "Break in Oil" in it that they tell you NOT to have changed until 10,000 miles, and the oil change interval there after is every 10,000 miles.
The service manager told me that the best break-in procedure was not to baby it, so I don't!
6100 miles on it tonight and the oil level has not went down at all on the dip stick.
The Jetta TDI has kind of a cult following with multiple owners reporting well over 500k miles with little or no oil consumption.
I know a VW is not a chainsaw, but they recommend that you not baby them if you want longevity.
I've always heard nearly the opposite when breaking in an internal combustion engine. ???
Kinda funny growing up in my neighborhood. My dad babied every vehicle he ever owned and always got 150-200k miles out of them before the bodies rusted away. My dads neighbor beat the crap out of every vehicle he ever owned and they always ran fine until their bodies fell apart. They both religiously changed oil and filter every 3000 miles. Neither ever had a serious engine issue that I can remember.

So which is it-baby engines at break in wheeliechair or run 'em like ya stole 'em? move_it

Or does routine maintenance dictate longevity and performance? smiley_idea 

No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

Al_Smith

Obviously you have to change the oil every so often .

On a chainsaw nobody is going to agree on which is best .My theory is on the oil mix ratio and correct tuning.

ehp

I just did my new 461 arctic and I just went to work falling with the saw like any normal day , I make sure saw is not set to lean out of the box and put her to work making me money

H 2 H

Quote from: Al_Smith on December 20, 2013, 05:54:59 AM
Obviously you have to change the oil every so often .

On a chainsaw nobody is going to agree on which is best .My theory is on the oil mix ratio and correct tuning.

I agree


Wait a minute  agreed with Al :)
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

ZeroJunk

What happens is that you have one guy who does it a certain way and has no problems so he says that is the way it needs to be done. Another guy does it differently and has no problems so he says that is the way it needs to be done.

I cut for a few minutes to get the saw up to temperature, tune it 500 RPM on the low side, and send it out the door. And, that is really in case the RPM creeps up which it has a tendency to do. Never had one come back, knock on wood.

I know that some guys can tune by ear, but I will always be way low. Too cautious maybe.

H 2 H

Friday I went and bought a new blower at the local saw shop and the retired machinist was in and rebuilding and new saw break in just happened to be talked about. New saw they didn't really matter because of warranty they said but there was sure alot of difference between the older generation and the younger generation
machinist on rebuilt saws ;D
 
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

ehp

I help out the stihl dealer down the road when they need it and the only real thing we do is make sure the new saw is not set to lean and 99.9% of them from the factory are set way to lean , the only saw they really watch is the 660 stihl and will not sell 1 without putting 1 tank of fuel threw it first cause of so many engine failures as most guys run 36 inch bars on them , high test gas and at 40-1 and happy days

Al_Smith

Quote from: H 2 H on December 21, 2013, 11:00:21 PM
My theory is on the oil mix ratio and correct tuning.

I agree


Wait a minute  agreed with Al :)
[/quote] Well I'm right some of the time .Then again as they say even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and again . ;D

CTYank

Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 15, 2013, 11:28:57 PM
Quote from: Andyshine77 on December 15, 2013, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: CTYank on December 15, 2013, 09:54:50 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on December 10, 2013, 03:53:48 PM
The saws that I have always brought are tuned by the dealer wide open,under no load. It's only for about 30 seconds,a minute? but each time I hear it like that, it seems a LONG time.
I have heard of only 2 speeds on a chainsaw too. Wide open,under a load and idle.

Some dealer types insist on adjusting high-speed mixture so that engine speed @WOT meets some spec. An indicator of incompetence, IMHO. No-load @WOT is abusive. Like with auto-tune, mixture should be set for max speed UNDER LOAD. One easy test @WOT if it's right: 2-stroking under load, light 4-stroking when you lift.

Two dealer monkeys insisted on the WOT unloaded speed thing. EPA would have busted them- the engine ran STINKY rich. When I could adjust the carb, 1/2+ turn in got it dead-on. 2-stroking, then, and the 4-stroking transition. It now sings. Beware of dealer "geniuses"- the deaf ones.

It's completely acceptable and the norm to tune a chainsaw at WOT without load, in fact it's the best method for non rev limited models. However running the saw at WOT for 30 seconds or more, is not advisable, 5 seconds is more than enough. Tuning with a tachometer also requires you to run the saw at WOT without load. Tuning in the wood is fine if you have experience. 

As far as I know, no dealer has been busted buy the EPA for tuning a carb rich for the first few tanks, that's what I do and everyone I know who works on or ports chainsaws. Again rev limited saws are a different story, but you can still set the RPM's just under the limiter, this still requires a WOT run and a tach. One also has to have a good feel of how a saw behaves during testing, some like more fuel than others, some less.


It appears you didn't read what I said. The dealer self-appointed-geniuses insisted on setting high-speed mixture solely by tach, and set that mixture STINKY-RICH. Should I say that again? Obvious that they weren't near close. (About 3/4 turn in later, and that 40cc RedMax is again amazing, like when received; 2- to 4-stroking nicely.) EPA would have s*at all over these idiots.

Ironically, they said that I couldn't be empowered to adjust my carb. Total (Admin Edit) arrogance.

Like "auto-tune" you set H mixture for best performance UNDER LOAD, or you should find a job you understand. Setting for proper transition from 2- to 4-stroking is something an average 6th grader could handle. Anyone who's not learning is dead. R.I.P.

If the exhaust brings tears to your eyes, doh- something you did is wrong- make it right.

You do NOT adjust my saws unloaded @WOT. Got that? No alibis, no bs.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

ZeroJunk

Well, I have been tuning 2 cycles since West Bend Super Bees and I can tune them where they will operate just fine.

But, I am not as good as a tachometer.

JohnG28

CTYank, are you a saw manufacturer, builder, and mechanic? Just curious because your over opinionated responses don't seem all that productive to me. Not saying you don't know how to tune or whatever, but as opposed to being helpful you seem to blast your thoughts off and offer the rest an insult of intelligence or competence, often when the others are just as or more correct than you. But hey, JMHO.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

AKDoug

I don't know how anyone can find out if it 4 strokes at WOT, without running it at WOT ??

ZeroJunk

Quote from: AKDoug on December 29, 2013, 10:20:19 PM
I don't know how anyone can find out if it 4 strokes at WOT, without running it at WOT ??

Or, what is supposed to happen if you do. They are rev limited by the amount of fuel that you are adjusting. I can't imagine anybody starting out lean.

Al_Smith

 :D Well JohnG don't let CTY yank your chain ,he's harmless and really a lot of fun.He's endeavored to teach me proper punctuation but some how failed.Probabley not entirely his fault as I'm a tad bit obstinate or so they say.  ;D

In his defense I don't think he's attempting to come off in general as a know it all .Just on 40 cc Redmax's which almost nobody owns so how would anyone else know? So as to honor his great vast knowledge he should be declaired guru of Redmax until somebody else claims the title .See I'm a nice guy after all . 8)

JohnG28

 :D :D :D :D Think that's about spot on Al! Nothing being yanked over here anyway, just figured I'd air out my opinion.  Al, maybe those Redmax should become your area of study for a while, could become interesting! :P :-X
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Al_Smith

I can't ever remember even seeing one.I've actually heard good reports on them though.

You know 40 cc's it's a small firewooder which is okay but I doubt it's all that much in terms of a power house Paul Bunyan type of saw.

I've got an 024 Stihl myself which I actually used this afternoon a little bit.It is what it is,a small firewooder.Does fine but isn't an oak slayer by any means .. < two periods  :D  just can't help myself at times.

brettl

That Redmax must be a great saw. After 5 winters of cutting hedge, I've just recently found out that this Craftsman 40cc I use for the mid sized stuff is a re-badged Redmax! Who would of thunk it? I believe it is the only one they've done for Sears. The Zenoah engines they use are great engines and have been used in a Ryobi and a Mcculloch as well and now the Earthquakes and a few others. Of course there's been some deviation with strato and non-strato but I've been running Zenoah engines on rc planes for over 15 years and love 'em so if strato is better then I want to try a Redmax! :new_year:

JohnG28

Speaking of Ryobi, I had seen one a while back that I swore was a rebadged Echo top handle. Then again it may have been a Hitachi. Had the same 5 year warranty as Echo.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

gary courtney

run my saws out of box wide open using non-ethanol 40:1 with ethanol shield for good measure never had problem in timber starting to slow down though as evident i am on this forum instead of the woods!

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