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Bar oil thinning

Started by d.mccarty, December 01, 2013, 06:46:38 PM

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d.mccarty

In Michigan when the temp. drops below 20 degrees I have experienced problems with my Husky 346XP bar oiler.  Normally I top off the oil tank with every tank of gas but when the temp. is below 20 degrees it uses almost no bar oil.  The Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual refers to thinning normal (not winter grade) bar oil with Kerosene. The question is how much Kerosene per gallon?  I know several manufactures make winter grade oil which is thinner but it is very hard to find in SE Mich. ( we are not exactly known for logging).
I also have Husky 357XP and an old 041 saws with the same issue to a lesser degree, so second question: Is it likely I have a problem with the oil pump on the 346XP?
D. McCarty

thecfarm

Anyway to keep that oil a little warm? I take it you must be running a skidder too at them temps? In the woods all day? I have a OWB and keep a gallon on the shelf. But at below 20 I don't think it would help out for long.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Firewoodjoe

I've been using vegtiable oil. It's 10 w and 7.99 a gallon. Mix it with summer grade (30 w and 6.99 a gallon) till I think it's good for the temp.

bandmiller2

D.Mc, never heard of proportions I'd just dump a half pint or so of diesel fuel in the bar and chain oil and shake it up[gallon jug].When its real cold I usually don't cut but when I do I put ATF in the oiler. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

67L36Driver

In some of my old magnesium saws (Remingtons and Lombards in particular) I have to thin the 30 weight bar oil from Wally World.  Five or six parts bar oil to one part kerosene.  They use the pressurized tank system.
Over 40 old magnesium runners.  Plei Trapp Valley Duck!!! Club.

Andyshine77

How does it oil when the saws all warmed up? When it's that cold It's always best to let the saw to idle a minute or so, that will warm the saw up, and thin out the oil. This works best with mag case saws.
Andre.

Caloren

The Remington we used in the '70's and 80's said to use a 50/50 mix of 30wt motor oil and kerosene for bar lube. No mention in the manual of using it in cold weather. My Father-in-law used this mix from then on all his saws, no matter the brand or recommendation of the particular manufacturer.  ::)

Loren
Stihl MS 170, Stihl MS 310, Stihl 028 AV Super, and half a dozen other no-accounts! Cat D4 D.

M_S_S

Bar oil is like rollerchain oil, it is sticky so it doesn't readly sling off the bar, rollerchain, etc. Years ago ( maybe 20 lol) the fallers in the Sierras used junk oil mixed with bar oil. Junk oil is what we called oil drained from 55 gal barrels at the oil and fuel distributers. Most of it was 10-30, 15-40. We mixed it about half and half in the winter. Ed

A lot of hydraulic oil in junk oil too. I forgot that. Ed
2- 562xp 24"bar
         576xp 28"bar
         385xp 28" and 32" bars
         25 ton Speeco
         6600 Ford
         02 Dodge diesel
         73 Ford 250

Philbert

I have seen it recommended as a 50/50 mix of regular bar oil and kerosene for cold weather use.  Make sure to open up your oiler, if it is adjustable, to compensate for the thinner oil.

Philbert

DDDfarmer

Why not just use the winter oil?  Rather than trying to thin summer/heavy oil.
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Philbert

Quote from: DDDfarmer on December 02, 2013, 01:11:18 PMWhy not just use the winter oil?

Sometimes hard to find south of you.  Mixing is also a way to get a small amount if you only do occasional cold weather cutting.

Philbert

DDDfarmer

Never thought it would be hard to get down south.  Most hardware stores around here have it, I buy it by the case from the local fuel dealer.  But my saw is used as much in winter as summer.

Learn something new every day.
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

d.mccarty

To clarify as I was not real clear in the original Post.  As a golf course we have accounts at local outdoor equipment outlets that do not necessarily specialize in chainsaw and logging equipment.  I have to buy through these outlets and they don't have winter grade oil very often.  We buy our bar oil by the case so I have a large quantity of normal grade oil on hand.
Golf courses are normally fairly open but ours has large tracts of spruce and pine planted 60 years ago by the Jesuits (the property is owned by the Church and we lease it for the golf course).  The only time I have need of a skidder is when I need to fell any of those pines or spruces.  They are so close together that they will not fall on their own. I use a New Holland T55N tractor and 150' of 3/4" bull rope and lots of pulleys and snatch blocks. The rest of the course is very steeply hilled glacial moraine covered with Red and White Oak and some Black Locust. I can't keep the tractor on those slopes so I have to cut small enough to carry.
Thanks everyone for your help.
D. McCarty

d.mccarty

2nd clarification;  We do all of our cutting in the winter due to Oak Wilt issues and of course there are fewer golfers when the ground is frozen. (That's fewer not none)
D. McCarty

Philbert

Frozen ground probably helps keep you from tearing up the turf too!

Could your OPE dealers order a few cases of winter weight oil if you planned ahead?  Should not charge you freight if it is part of their normal order.

Might be off the topic a little, but we were cutting last week at 10 - 22*F and a lot of guys forget to change the 'summer / winter shutters' in the saws that have those to heat the carbs.

Philbert

CTYank

I've a Chilton's compendium of saw manuals- all sorts of brands.

Std spec for all, for winter b&c: up to 1/4 kerosene mixed with SAE 30 b&c oil.
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

Terry Syd

Something I've never figured out was why not use gas/petrol for a thinning agent. If I spray a chain lube on a motorcycle chain the lube has a thinning agent that rapidly evaporates and leaves the thick chain lube on the chain.

It seems to me that we are trying to thin the lube through the PUMP not on the chain. If we thin the lube with kerosene or ATF, we are thinning the lube that the bar and chain use.

If gas/petrol thinned the lube through the pump and then evaporated on the chain it would leave a thicker lube on the chain.

Has anybody used a bit of gas/petrol to thin their lube to get it through the pump and had success?

DDDfarmer

Using gas as a thinning agent could get interesting IMO.  I think we have all seen the amount of sparks that are created around the bar and chain.  Also you have the exhaust blowing around in that area. 

Gas fumes... sparks.... say_what ???

If you try it could you please take a video and post it here? :D


I wouldn't try it.
Treefarmer C5C with cancar 20 (gearmatic 119) winch, Husky 562xp 576xp chainsaws

Terry Syd

I'll give it a try next winter and take my fire extinguisher just in case. A small amount of petrol mixed in to the small amount of bar oil going on the bar probably wouldn't emit a large fume build up over such a large area and with that much air flow, but I take your point.

I was using ATF, but then realised it was used in wet clutch applications and may not have enough lubricity. I did a bit of research and found that type F has a lower lubricity than the Dextron III.

One thing I did to improve the flow was to increase the pre-load (shim) on the spring for the piston. The extra pre-load helps to push the pump piston back out. The pumps may be positive displacement, but that is only for the oil that is in the pump. If the pump piston doesn't suck in the oil, it can't be pumped out.


John R

Quote from: d.mccarty on December 01, 2013, 06:46:38 PM
In Michigan when the temp. drops below 20 degrees I have experienced problems with my Husky 346XP bar oiler.  Normally I top off the oil tank with every tank of gas but when the temp. is below 20 degrees it uses almost no bar oil.  The Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual refers to thinning normal (not winter grade) bar oil with Kerosene. The question is how much Kerosene per gallon?  I know several manufactures make winter grade oil which is thinner but it is very hard to find in SE Mich. ( we are not exactly known for logging).
I also have Husky 357XP and an old 041 saws with the same issue to a lesser degree, so second question: Is it likely I have a problem with the oil pump on the 346XP?


I'm also in Michigan, a ways north of you.
I use a pint of fuel oil to 1 gallon of bar oil.
Not a lot, but it does help when the temp gets cold.
John


Sthil MS 361 20" Bar
Sthil MS 260 PRO 16" Bar
Oregon 511 AX Chain Grinder

Philbert

I wouldn't use gas.

Maybe the amount of kerosene you add varies with the temp?

Philbert

Little Al

The logging company I service saws for have to [in France] use Bio  bar oil when cutting on Gov or specified areas, but winter use on private land the oil is thined with cheap mineral 2 stroke mix oil usually 1/4-1/3 to3/4-2/3 bar oil oiler adjustment opened 1/8- 1/4 turn. I have been servicing their saws for the last 5 winters & not come across any problems relating to bars, chains,that is out of the ordinary

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