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I want one that size, how about a vertical shaft 4 stroke?

Started by mmartone, November 27, 2013, 11:57:10 PM

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mmartone

I already ordered my mill from panthermills in brooksville fl... Now I need to buy a big saw, still looking, watching.



 
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

SawTroll

Information collector.

motard

166 would be more like it.

Of course you can't get parts for them.

Many old giants will pull a mill set-up, always make sure you have a back-up eh?

mmartone

I'm thinking 3120, for parts if needed.
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

motard

You could do a lot worse fo' sure!

I started with a 153 Sachs Dolmar, I now have 6 152/153s.

They are all runners with 4 2100s for back-up?

Bet if I did not have all these spares I wouldn't use 'em fer milling.

Milling has got to be the most torture a man can put a saw through!

motard

Quote from: mmartone on November 27, 2013, 11:57:10 PM
I already ordered my mill from panthermills in brooksville fl... Now I need to buy a big saw, still looking, watching.



 

That is one impressive log!

But that is NOT true milling, more giant cookie cutting.

Cutting against the grain takes far less power, ripping with the grain is a bunch tougher.

Ripping a hardwood log 1/3 that size would take ANY of the best 7 cube saws everto their knees.

Good Luck with your quest!

mo

JohnG28

Quote from: SawTroll on November 28, 2013, 01:12:50 AM
3120 or 880....?

Looks like an 880 or 660. Sticker on top looks like a Stihl, and the decomp on top.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Al_Smith

Quote from: motard on November 28, 2013, 09:20:37 AM


Milling has got to be the most torture a man can put a saw through!
Or vica versa .I've tried it with both a 125 Mac plus that old rascal Homelite  in my avatar which has plenty of guts .They all suck .It's one way to make lumber just not an easy way .

Al_Smith

Oops I don't have an avatar on this site :-[ .I forget where I'm at at times .Homie is a 2100S in reference .

motard

Yes Sir,

I gotta agree.

But making something you can NOT buy is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,PRICELESS!

shootingarts

I found a raker about six or eight inches long and weighing a few pounds. I'm still looking for the chain and saw it came off of. If I find them I'll let you know!  ;)

Hu

motard

Bet no one has another workbench like this!

motard


Al_Smith

Don't bet on it .I have a nice bench with a bunch of junk on it and a 2100 Huskie with a K and N filter with a v stack induction . ;D

Yeah sure I've got a bunch of old yeller saws and a few big red ones but they aren't the only horses in the stable .

motard

Ahh Yes,

but a milled log is like a snowflake.

Never two exactly alike.

I spend time over at AS, it amazes me some of them fellas with big collections of saws don't mill.

I'm just tryin' to get the O.P. psyched!

mmartone

That a 2100?
This oak workbench top is drying, then well will put it together and finish it.. yours looks nice!



 
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

Al_Smith

Get ya a big ole saw sometime and mill some 18-25" oak a little bit .You'll earn every bit of that lumber .

I suppose some like it but I prefer a bandsaw myself .For now I'll drop and slice and pay somebody else to mill them .

My bud Swampish up in the frozen north tundra of the maritime provinces of Canada buys firewood .I'll just pay a sawyer until I come up with my own .

mmartone

I have a few logs well over what my woodmizer can slab... The chainsaw mill wont be used alot, I dont think.
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

Al_Smith

I've got a red oak 4 footer 16 feet long I'll have to rip myself .I'd much rather quarter it than rip the whole mess though .Lawdy that would take me a month of Sundays ,big McCulloch ,Homelite or the 084 abiding in my shed with the rest of them .

motard

Ever seen that video of the skinny African dude making boards with an old 070 or 090?

He is freehanding it and it is a method more like noodling than ripping.

The ole boy was good and his boards were uniform as you could get.

Bet the saw and 50 inch bar weighed near as much as he did!

turnkey

Quote from: motard on November 28, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Ever seen that video of the skinny African dude making boards with an old 070 or 090?

He is freehanding it and it is a method more like noodling than ripping.

The ole boy was good and his boards were uniform as you could get.

Bet the saw and 50 inch bar weighed near as much as he did!

I had forgotten that one!  It was pure amazing.

Harry K

mmartone

Anybody build one with a vertical shaft four stroke? I'm wondering if theres more power to be had and how about a clutch?
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

mad murdock

Hilltop366 built one using a 10 or 12 hp vertical shaft engine from a lawn tractor. He may have some pics of it in his gallery. I think there is a thread about it on here. Check the forum search tool.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

motard


motard

My memory stinks,

Philippines, not Africa, and dat's not a 50" bar either.

But the old boy does have a steady hand eh?

Ianab

Quote from: mmartone on November 28, 2013, 04:27:05 PM
Anybody build one with a vertical shaft four stroke? I'm wondering if theres more power to be had and how about a clutch?

Bit more engineering involved as you aren't going to hand hold a big 4 stroke like you can a chainsaw mill. So the whole things needs proper rails and height adjustment like any other mill.

But there are a couple of commercial versions of what you are talking about.
http://petersonsawmills.com/products/dws/
http://www.lucasmill.com/OurProducts/SlabbingMills/DedicatedSlabbingMill/tabid/274/Default.aspx

So yeah, the idea is practical, and you can buy a commercial mill like it, or fabricate your own.

They just run a centrifugal clutch on the engine shaft, then belt drive to an idler shaft with the chain  sprocket. This lets you gear the chain speed correctly, and takes the stress and vibration of the chain away from the engine's crank bearings.

Then you can fit your 16 - 20 - 24 hp engine to a 4 or 5 ft bar, and go crazy  :D

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

motard

The beauty of an Alaskan type is you take it to the tree!

And dang Al, I'm no spring chicken meself, but it is really not that horrid as you speak.

How do you mill a 30"+ White Oak?

Right where it falls.



Here's a 4 foot HackBerry, only had 28" capacity then.

Got 45" now!

mad murdock

To go along with your sentiment motard, the best thing I did to really make a difference milling with a CSM was to retrofit with stihl's 63PMX ripping chain.  Well worth the switchover, IMO. The other thing that really helped me in increasing production was to build a homemade version of the mini-mill.  That way I can open a log, edge and start ripping boards without needing to turn a log. Way less monkey motion. The Timberjigg is a lot speedier as well on the smaller diameter logs also.  I really like it a lot!!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Ianab

QuoteThe beauty of an Alaskan type is you take it to the tree!

Well that's true for the Peterson & Lucas mills too.

Of course they cost 10X as much  :-\

That's the beauty of an Alaskan. It's relatively cheap, especially if you already have a heavy duty chainsaw. And yes they do work if set up right etc.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

motard

Quote from: Ianab on November 29, 2013, 12:21:58 AM
QuoteThe beauty of an Alaskan type is you take it to the tree!

Well that's true for the Peterson & Lucas mills too.

Of course they cost 10X as much  :-\

That's the beauty of an Alaskan. It's relatively cheap, especially if you already have a heavy duty chainsaw. And yes they do work if set up right etc.

Ian

Ok Ian,

I get your point, but the Alaskan you can carry to places no woodmizer or other trailer contraption will go.

It is true Guerilla milling at it's finest.


mmartone

I dont want another trailer mounted mill (csm), I guess my question was not specific. Has anyone built a csm like an alaskan with a 4 stroke on it? Maybe mounted in the center instead of out at the end like a chainsaw. Belt and clutch drive? Yes you would need 2 men to set it on the log. I bought this in 54" figuring a 60" bar on an 075/76 or 3120.
Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

sawguy21

The big limitations are weight and speed. Most air cooled four strokes are governed to 3600 rpm or less, the chain could be over driven but torque would be sacrificed. The 2 stroke remains king here.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

motard

YUP!

Horsepower to weight, the 2 stroke can not be beat.

I made my own Alaskan with aluminum extrusion, can change the chain with the mill attached.

Can even drop start it (33" bar) with the milling attachment!

There is no bandmill in existance (I've seen) that is truly portable?

Ianab

QuoteThere is no bandmill in existance (I've seen) that is truly portable?

Try this one.  ;)

http://www.ripsaw.com/ripsaw.html

OK it's going to have some limitations, but you can pick it up and carry it  ;D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

turnkey

It actually looks like it would be easier to use and faster than  ripping with a chain saw.  For sure easier on the power head.  Don't think I would put anything less than a 660 on it though.

Harry K

qbilder

My bandmill will slab out 31" wide. I milled several white oak slabs, 25-28" wide, this past summer. Took a whopping 30 minutes for the entire log. Anything bigger than that gets the 084.   
God bless our troops

Ianab

Quote from: mmartone on November 29, 2013, 09:24:57 AM
I dont want another trailer mounted mill (csm), I guess my question was not specific. Has anyone built a csm like an alaskan with a 4 stroke on it? Maybe mounted in the center instead of out at the end like a chainsaw. Belt and clutch drive? Yes you would need 2 men to set it on the log. I bought this in 54" figuring a 60" bar on an 075/76 or 3120.

I'd think the issue would be the weight and how you actually use the mill. The heavier 4 stroke wouldn't be "hand held" like a chainsaw mill can be. So you would probably need rails. Now you are starting to get close to the commercial chain slabbing mills.

Certainly possible to build a 4 stroke powered chain mill, just not sure how "portable" you could make it?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

shootingarts

Quote from: motard on November 28, 2013, 04:55:29 PM
Guess it was in the Philippines, not Africa,

I could do that! Well I could if, well no not in a hunnert years. I suspect part of it is the PPE he is wearing. You have to get good fast, there just ain't much room for mistakes.

Lost a friend in the Philippines a few years ago now. He made pool cues the match of anyone's, better than most, fancy inlays and all the trimmings. Did it almost all by hand and by eye, using cast off hacksaw blades and such bent and ground to make his tools. Amazing what people can do when they don't have much choice. Also great to see hand craftsmanship still exists some places. Here in the US too but it is certainly getting rarer all the time as we buy tools, fixtures, and jigs to make everything with minimum skills involved. I'm guilty of the same thing and more likely to make a jig or fixture than to try to make a finished product without one.

Awesome video, thanks for posting!

Hu

motard

You crack me up HU,

Yes Sir,

Man is a crafty one, bet a determined Man could take out a Giant Redwood with a mini mac!

It is really amazing how them fellas back in the day did it with no more than axes and brute strength.

And very few were built like Paul Bunyon, most were scrawny little fellas. Pound for pound they had to be some of the strongest men ever to walk Gods Green Earth!

shootingarts

Quote from: motard on December 01, 2013, 05:17:10 AM
You crack me up HU,

Yes Sir,

Man is a crafty one, bet a determined Man could take out a Giant Redwood with a mini mac!

It is really amazing how them fellas back in the day did it with no more than axes and brute strength.

And very few were built like Paul Bunyon, most were scrawny little fellas. Pound for pound they had to be some of the strongest men ever to walk Gods Green Earth!

The guys way back probably didn't go over a buck-fifty, maybe only a buck twenty-five. When I was in the fifth or sixth grade I saw Pizarro's armor in the old state capital building. He was described as a big burly explorer but I couldn't have fit in that armor by the time I was ten years old!

One thing those men understood was economy of effort. They used their own strength and their tools to best advantage. With all the power equipment we have now we often just give a half minute of thought to decide what will work instead of trying to figure out the best way to do something. Taking a few minutes to weigh various options would save a ton of work sometimes. Almost always better to work smart than to work hard.

Hu

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