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WM Onan engine starter problem/questions?

Started by Jim_Rogers, November 23, 2013, 01:35:25 PM

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Jim_Rogers

I have been having some problems getting the engine started. I figured it was a low battery.
I tested it and it said "weak battery".
So I bought a new one, as the tag on the battery I had said Aug 2010. I figured if I got three years out of it plus a month or two it was good.
I found the slip in my parts book and it verified that I did by it in Aug of 2010 and it cost me $132.
I just bought one earlier this week and it was $164. For the exact same battery. Wow, was a shocked about how much they had gone up in three years.

I put it in and it started right up the first thing in the morning the next day, like normal, like it should.

I was sawing away like normal starting and stopping the engine to move logs or lumber normal like I would, and then I went to start it and it wouldn't start.

I got out the battery charger again, and hooked it up and after charging for a few minutes, like 5, it started right up and I sawed until it was dark and I almost ran it out of gas.

Today, I got out there late morning and it wouldn't start. The engine would barely turn over, just like it did before the new battery as if the battery was weak or dead.

So I put the charge on it for 5 minutes as I had before. Still won't turn over fast enough to start the engine.

I know from calling electrical tech support that they said to test the amount of volts at the batter post, then the next connection; on and on up to the starter and if you find a voltage drop of more than point 2 volts at any one connection point you have a corrosion problem there. Take it apart and clean the connection and it should be good to go.

Well I tested at the battery and I got a very good reading. I tested at the starter and got the same reading, no voltage drop at all. Which, I think, tells me that I don't have a corrosion problem at any of the connections. But it still won't turn over fast enough to start the engine.

I also moved the ground clip of the voltage tested to the engine to see if it still read the same to test to see if the ground was bad. It still read the same. Again I think that my ground connection is ok.

This all leads me to believe that this starter is gone.

This engine is an 2002 so the starter is 11 years old. I would think that it is possible that this starter is gone.

I have the original Onan engine here that came on the mill, which is a 94 and that makes that starter 20 years old but it was only on the mill for 8 or 9 years.

I wrestled the old engine out of the storage shed to a place where I could get at it and I figured out how to get the starter off the block. It wasn't that hard only two 1/2" bolts behind the oil dip stick tube.

I tested this old starter on the bench with my battery charger and it did spin over.

I was thinking that I would try and swap starters.

My first question is have any of you every swapped a starter?

I think I have to remove the alternator in order to get enough room to slide it out.

Is this true? Do you have to remove the alternator?

I figure if I have to take it out to be rebuilt at my local rebuild shop in the next town over, I might as well try this other starter while this one is out.

What do you think?

Any comments or advice would be accepted.

I did a search and I couldn't seem to find any threads about removing a starter. But if there is one please post the link or PM me.

Thanks

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

pineywoods

Probably just a brush worn down to where it doesn't make contact. Most starters have 4 brushes. When just one wears down, the starter will still run, but will only have 1/2 the torque. The other 3 will likely be about gone also. If you have trouble finding new brushes, I can point you to a place that will have them..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tom the Sawyer

Jim,

I had a somewhat similar issue with my forklift.  Plenty of voltage at the battery and at the starter, weak or no start.  Took the starter off and had it rebuilt although they said it appeared to work fine.  Put it back on and same no start issues.   My problem was a broken battery cable clamp.  It would show the proper voltage but could not carry the amperage needed to start the engine.   smiley_confused

Even if the voltage appears to be OK you might consider cleaning and tightening your connections.  When I loosened the battery cable, it came apart in my hand.  Replaced the clamp and no more problems.   smiley_thumbsup
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Holmes

Similar to Tom the Sawyer  I changed a starter and still had  starting problems. Turned out the 2nd ground cable was poorly attached to the frame.  Checking the grounds can save some money sometimes
Think like a farmer.

Jim_Rogers

Thanks for your advice.

Update.

After posting the question(s) I went out and tried to start it again. Same thing, it would barely turn over.

So, I figured I would have to either wait until Monday, call WM electrical techs and discuss it, and have them tell me most likely the starter is gone and you'll have to pull it. So I went ahead and pulled the old starter out.

It was a bit of a challenge, but I didn't have to remove the alternator just swivel it down out of the way after removing the belt.

I got the old one all loosened up but couldn't get it to drop out. The main front wind guard was holding it in. I had to loosen up some bolts and remove a few to get the guard to shift just enough for the starter to drop out.

I thought it was going to be a bear to get the other one back in. Especially with these two long bolts that go through the block housing and into the starter. But when you get it where it needs to be they seemed to line right up.

I had to loosen up and move a lot of things out of the way. And maybe some of them didn't need to be moved but I got it out, the other one in and everything back on. No extra parts left over.

During doing all this I kept the battery charger on the battery just to bring it back up to full charge, if it wasn't already.

After putting everything on and moving away all the tools, I turned the key and it spun over regular and started right up.

I let it run a second and checked the voltage output again and it was the same at the starter and at the battery so I know my alternator is working alright as well.

I shut it of and it fired right back up again, regular.

I sawed one log making an 8x8x10' oak post for the barn I'm working on. And again I shut it down and it started right back up again regular.

I will most likely take this starter over to the rebuild shop and see what it will cost to have them do it for me.

It would be nice to have one all rebuilt on hand should I need it.

Thanks for all your comments and advice about the ground and amperage.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Chuck White

When I swapped out the engine pivot bushings a few years ago, I had the starter and the alternator both gone over at the "auto electric shop".

If I remember right they replaced the brushes and the bushings in the starter and pretty-much the same on the alternator.  Cost then (about 4 yrs ago) was around $100.00
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Chuck White

My Onan hasn't been running right for some time now!

It's gotten back into "searching" doesn't run good at high idle (engaged), up, down, up, down, until it's under load, and then it's gotten to where it uses a little more gas than it had been!

One consensus is a leaking intake gasket!

Done sawing for the Winter, so we'll have to see what needs to be done before Spring.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

woodmills1

have you seen the old posts on junk in the carb on the onan?
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

beenthere

Have you tried any Sea Foam in the fuel?

I heard the great claims for Sea Foam here on the forum. I bought some but didn't use it.
Then after a year of putting up with a B&S 8hp on the log splitter running rough and always "searching", unable to fine tune the jets to help, adding a carb kit, and yet still getting the job done running the pump, I settled down to just letting it sputter and search.
A couple weeks ago I decided to try the Sea Foam. Thought I could notice a little difference right away.
But now after 4 tanks of fuel with Sea Foam added, this last tank of fuel has it running smooth as ever.

Have to blame that on the Sea Foam, and now am converted that it must be doing some good.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

bandmiller2

Jim, sounds like your bushings are worn and the armature is dragging on the field poles. Should be a reasonably cheap fix as long an nothing overheated and burned. Good form to have a spare starter. My standard procedure with a defunct starter is to open it up, if it smells burned turn it in for a rebuilt, if not a few cheap parts will usally fix it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Jim_Rogers

I took my starter over to my local rebuild shop that I have used for many years. They tested it and you were right, Frank. They said the bushings were gone and it was rubbing the field.
They estimated between $95 and $125 to rebuild it.

I brought it home with me as I don't have that money right now.

I will most likely have them do it some time later on.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jim_Rogers

I was thinking of calling my Onan parts dealer and seeing what a new one would cost. That would most likely be a big Ouch.....

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

I missed something Jim.  Do you have a spare starter on the engine now?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jim_Rogers

MM: Yes spare starter is on the engine now. I was so busy with lots of other stuff yesterday that I didn't even get a chance to mill a thing.
going out now to see if equipment will start. kind of cold up here this morning.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

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