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Eclassic 2300 air holes blocked

Started by firechief, November 23, 2013, 12:23:17 PM

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firechief

Hello All,

Just noticed at least my 2 front air holes nearest the door on both right and left sides have no air coming out.  Back holes must be doing ok because unit seems to be running smooth.  Have to wait until my wood burns down to completely check other holes. Have not yet done a search on the forum as I know this topic has been brought up before but thought I would throw the question out there.  I guess my fear is that if I try and clear out air holes with a screwdriver, etc. I may do further damage ??  This is my 5th year heating with this unit and have yet to have any blockage problems. Thanks and have a great weekend.
Looking at page 45 of my manual states "If the air outlets become plugged or the flow of air through the outlets is diminished, clean the outlets". No further explanation of how to do this.
Firechief

buckgrunt

Hello Firecheif,

I also have a 2300.  I started the season burning a lot of pine, so I got more than usual creostoe build up.    Every other day, I scrape the creosote build-up along the air holes in the fire box with a scraper that looks similar to a garden hoe.  In addition, I have an old ski pole with a slightly bent tip that I used to poke in and around in the air holes to make sure they are clear of creosote.  Hope this helps 

Roger2561

Fire chief - I don't have the 2300 but I do have the E-classic 1400.  I've been using a screw driver bent at not quite 90 degrees to clear all of the air holes in my 1400.  This is my 3rd season heating with it and I can't imagine that I'm doing any damage to the it.  The screw driver isn't that large in diameter but it's about 6 inches long.  If you don't want to wait 'til the fire burn down a bit, I simply put the unburned stuff in a safe (metal) container and the hot coals in another safe (metal) container.  I then can stuff my head inside the firebox to clear all of the holes.  When I'm satisfied that the holes are clear, I then take the hot coals and put them back in the firebox along with the unburned pieces of wood to get the fire going again.  Believe me, it won't take long to get the fire going again.  Also, in the back of you OWB where the primary and secondary solenoids are located, make the primary air intake is clear of creosote.  On the 1400's it is susceptible to clogging.  This may not work for you but it work great for me.     Good luck.  Roger
Roger

bobby s

Hey Firechief,
Old ski poles and a piece of 3/8" threaded rod are my favorite tools to clean out holes. I can't see how you would damage anything doing this.
As far as preventative maintenance goes, I like to have a big ole creasote fire every 4 or 5 days to burn off anything that's accumulated on the back shelf or is covering side air holes. This goes a long way in keeping holes clear.
Good luck.

JJ

Hi FireChief,
I also have the e-2300, installed in 08.
When I load wood in morning, when fire is as lowest, I scrape front of holes (both sides and back), and also scrape off the accumulated creosote from the shelf (where fire bricks were), putting the black gue onto the coals near the downdraft hole; pretty much moving the ash away from the holes.
For this, I only use square end spade, and standard fireplace poker (has point on end, and on hook).

If it is only few holes plugged, I would not be too concerned, as firebox is pressurized, so what is most important is downdraft being open.
I find with my unit, the smaller back corner holes on left and right, as well as the back factory holes are often plugged, sometimes making them hard to find.  I do not often see the holes in back I drilled (larger than the factory holes) as they are low and below the coals; but when I do, they are usually open.

        JJ

firechief

Thanks for the comments and suggestions.  Ive tried unplugging holes with screwdriver but with no luck, also looks like I have next 2 holes now are plugged.
Back holes must be doing double duty as the stove is burning well and running smooth.  I'll keep working on it. Think I may have an old ski pole in attic.

holder73

I've wondered the same thing firechief, by gouging the cresote around the holes I wonder if I am packing more into the holes than I am cleaning out.  I have the eclassic 1400 and when I cleaned it out at end of season last year and held the door spring thing closed, I could only feel air coming out the round holes in the back of the firebox, nothing coming out the sides and they were as clean as I could get them with a scredriver and small chisel.  I use a long metal rod to keep the round holes in the back clean and I have the tool that came fro CB to clean the oblong holes on the side while the fire is burning, still don't think I'm getting much air out the sides but the stove is functioning fine, love the cheap heat!

firechief

I've cleared out as much as I can with the screwdriver.
Next will be the ski pole and checking the solenoids this weekend.

Roger2561

Quote from: holder73 on November 26, 2013, 12:41:56 PM
I've wondered the same thing firechief, by gouging the cresote around the holes I wonder if I am packing more into the holes than I am cleaning out.  I have the eclassic 1400 and when I cleaned it out at end of season last year and held the door spring thing closed, I could only feel air coming out the round holes in the back of the firebox, nothing coming out the sides and they were as clean as I could get them with a scredriver and small chisel.  I use a long metal rod to keep the round holes in the back clean and I have the tool that came fro CB to clean the oblong holes on the side while the fire is burning, still don't think I'm getting much air out the sides but the stove is functioning fine, love the cheap heat!

Hello Holder, Like you, I too have the 1400.  The first year of operation was a steep learning curve for me.  This is my 3rd season with it.  Growing up we always had a wood stove in the living room but this beast is such a different animal altogether.  One very cold January morning, 1:30amish, the fire went out.  It had gone out a couple of times earlier during the day.  That should have been my clue something was up.  With the conventional wood stove in the living room, seldom did we have to worry about air holes.  On this cold January morning I finally figured out they were plugged tighter than drum.  It spent 3 hours using a bent screwdriver at not quite a 90 degree angle to clear every one of the dang things.  Once I did it operated just it did when I first fired her up the previous Oct.  Every other week, very early on a Saturday morning I remove all of the hot coals into an non combustible container (metal) to be re-used to rekindle the OWB once I have cleaned all of those holes.  You have to really get your head inside the firebox to get an idea just how plugged they can get.  It's dirty job.  And hot too.  No matter how cold the ambient temps are, it hotter than heck inside the firebox.  You will sweat.  Once I'm satisfied the holes are clear, I empty the reaction chamber.  Generally I can probably go another week before emptying it but what the heck, I'm there so... After that I check the primary air solenoid and elbow for creosote build up.  If not checked at least once a month, mine will clog.  Once that's done, I put the hot coals back inside the firebox, toss some 3 to 4 inch diameter pieces on it, keep the reaction chamber door open a bit to cause a nice up draft (this will help rekindle the wood).  Once the fire is going strong, I close the reaction chamber door, close the by-pass door and watch the temp rise in the water jacket.  All of this may seem it takes forever to do, but once have a system down, it won't take much longer than a 1/2 hour.  This may not work for you so good luck with whatever you do.  Roger  PS:  Ain't the free cheap nice?     
Roger

beenthere

The logrite hookaroon might just be the ticket for cleaning those holes..  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ohiowood

I had to clean out the area in the back corner where the air has to turn the corner to get to the side holes. Heavy bent coat hanger back and forth with a shop vac sucking up the crap that comes out. Work really good could not believe how much came out.

Roger2561

OhioWood - Those corners are the achilles heal on my 1400.  But, if you stay with it and run a piece of wire through the hole and around the corner, it's just a few minutes of time to keep them open.  Roger
Roger

holder73

Roger2561, can you describe to me where the primary air solenoid and elbow is at?  I am on my second season with my Eclassic 1400 and I have never cleaned this area, I figure it's in dire need after reading your posts, sorry for the ignorance on this, but like you said it is a steep learning curve, if it weren't for me finding this forum last winter I probably would've had a lot of problems, but happy to say I haven't, my fire only went out twice last year and once so far this year, all of those due to my own error of trying to put to much wood in and having to thick of coal/ash bed in firebox, blocking up airflow.  I have found that it really does work best to let your wood load burn down to coals and even let the coals burn down to keep the depth of the coals/ash at a good working level, before loading it up with wood.  I also try to keep my wood load small and in the center of the box on warm days.  I've been running my 1400 since the 3rd week of August to heat the domestic hot water, you really learn alot about its operation when you try running it when it's still hot outside, no heat load requirements from the furnace.
Thanks for all the great information here guys!

Ohiowood

Holder

How much have you burned so far and how much a year do you burn?

Thanks

Roger2561

Quote from: holder73 on November 27, 2013, 11:34:11 AM
Roger2561, can you describe to me where the primary air solenoid and elbow is at?  I am on my second season with my Eclassic 1400 and I have never cleaned this area, I figure it's in dire need after reading your posts, sorry for the ignorance on this, but like you said it is a steep learning curve, if it weren't for me finding this forum last winter I probably would've had a lot of problems, but happy to say I haven't, my fire only went out twice last year and once so far this year, all of those due to my own error of trying to put to much wood in and having to thick of coal/ash bed in firebox, blocking up airflow.  I have found that it really does work best to let your wood load burn down to coals and even let the coals burn down to keep the depth of the coals/ash at a good working level, before loading it up with wood.  I also try to keep my wood load small and in the center of the box on warm days.  I've been running my 1400 since the 3rd week of August to heat the domestic hot water, you really learn alot about its operation when you try running it when it's still hot outside, no heat load requirements from the furnace.
Thanks for all the great information here guys!

Holder, In the rear of the 1400 you'll see 2 panels that go from mid point to the bottom of the OWB.  Remove them.  Now, on the left you'll see the blower with the squirrel cage attached to it.  You'll see the blower attached the upright box.  Open that upright box.  Inside on the left is the primary air solenoid and elbow assembly.  The elbow and solenoid are attached to one another and connected to the nipple by a stainless hose clamp.  Before you remove the hose clamp, make sure you turn off the Firestar controller.  If you don't and you unplug the solenoid it could short.  Unplug the 2 leads going to the solenoid and loosen the hose clamp enough to remove the elbow assembly from the nipple.  Look inside the elbow and the nipple that's attached to the OWB.  You'll be surprised by the amount of creosote that collects in both items.  Do your best to remove the creosote from both places.  After you're satisfied that it's as clean as it'll go, put them back on the nipple, tighten the hose lamp and plug the solenoid back in.  The 2 other solenoids are for the secondary burn and I'd be surprised if you found any creosote in them.  It wouldn't to be on the safe side and check them out. 

The plate that's bolted to the solenoid, is it regular cold roll steel or stainless steel, plus the nut and bolt hold the plate to the solenoid.  About 2 weeks ago the creosote had eaten away the nut that was attached to the bolt causing the plate on the primary solenoid not to open.  It snuffed out the fire.  The house was chilly when I go home from work.  As quick fix, I replaced the nut, bolt and lock washer with stainless steel ones.  I'm waiting for the stainless steel plate from Metals Depot to arrive so I can cut out new plates to replace them with the stainless steel.  The one on the OWB is getting rather thin so I'm quite sure the mild steel is being eaten up the creosote.  You may want to check this on your OWB, especially the nut, lock washer and bolt.  Please post back your findings so others' can learn too.  Roger     
Roger

holder73

Ohiowood, I didn't get my 1400 up and going until mid Feb. last year and we also had a pretty mild winter in the NC mountains so I don't have a good feel on how much I burn a year yet.  I can tell you that I have a 6' x 10' trailer with 2' sides that I load rounded up in the center, tossed in not stacked, and I have burned 2 trailer loads since 3rd week in Aug., probably didn't start heating house til late Oct. but our Nov. has been more like January this year, lots of cold nights and days.  I grew up with and my dad still has the old large water stove, with no automatic drafts that eats wood like crazy and I am amazed at how efficient my 1400 is with the wood, I usually get 12 to 15 hour burn times on about 6 to 8 pieces of split dry oak with lows in 20's or teens and high in 40's, and the house is as warm as I want it to be and love the hot water with the wife and 3 kids and myself all taking showers.  I thinking no more than a cord of wood a month in the coldest months.

Roger, thanks for the information on the air solenoids, I'm scared to think what mine are gonna look like, but I plan to work on these asap, probably Friday after turkey day tomorrow.  Thanks for all the good information and recommendation, I will definitely report back what I find.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Ohiowood

Holder,

Thanks for the info, I'm probably at the same amount of wood. Cold also here in Ohio.


Roger2561

Holder & Ohiowood;  I'm using about the same amount of every 12 hours.  It's amazing how little wood these things use.  I used to heat with a wood stove in my living room (it's the only room that stayed warm) and would go through about the same amount of wood every 12 hours but by the time I got home from work about 10 to 11 hours later, the firewood was reduced to small coals and no heat in the house.  I hated coming home to a cold house.  Now, I put in about the same as you guys do every 12 hours so when I get home or get out of bed in morning the house is toasty warm and the oil furnace not running.  Believe it not, it took me a few days to get used to NOT hearing the oil furnace running.  It freaked me out.  Roger 
Roger

JJ

Another tip for clean out, when you take main solenoid boot off to unplug or end of season; is to shove the shop vac hose in on blow (instead of vac), and stand well clear of the crap that comes flying out.

         JJ

Roger2561

Thanks for the great tip, JJ.  I've got to remember that one.  Roger
Roger

holder73

Below are a series of pictures I made of my experience cleaning the primary and secondary air solenoids on my eclassic 1400 today, first is the inside of the solenoid box, then the primary solenoid elbow and nipple before cleaning, both after cleaning, the secondary elbow and nipple before cleaning, and last a picture of what came out of the primary nipple (part that elbow attaches to) on a piece of newspaper.



 


  

  

  

  

  

 

Thanks Roger for the good info. and directions on cleaning these, I had never cleaned these solenoid elbows and nipples out since I got my eclassic, I started it up middle of Jan. 2013 and ran through May, started it back up in mid Aug. and been running til present.  As you can see in the pics the primary solenoid elbow and nipple were really gunked up with cresote, owb was still functioning fine but as you can see by the elbow, it would've eventually stopped up completely, no air would equal no fire.  Again, valuable information gained here on this forum that prevented some major problems, enjoying a warm house tonight.

holder73

JJ I am asking for a new shop vac for Christmas, definitely will give the blowing into the primary solenoid a try, from alot of tips I've read here the shop vac will come in handy for cleaning the owb.

Roger I also am posting some pics of my primary solenoid plate and screws front and back, are these the ones you had to replace, mine look good, like new, if these are the ones you were talking about.

  

 

holder73

Roger2561, I went back and read your previous post and I think I figured out the bolt you were talking about was the one that goes through  the spring loaded lid that the solenoid open and closes to allow air to flow in to the firebox.  I did remove the spring and clean inside this lid and that bolt did look a little rough, I will have to take a closer look at it next time I'm cleaning the elbow and see about replacing it.

Roger2561

Holder73 - Great pics of before and after cleaning the primary elbow.  Your dirtiest one was actually clean compared to mine when I removed it.  I think there was a hole about 1/2" diameter for the air to pass through before I cleaned it.  Also, I'll take a pic of the plate that came with it on mine after I change it to the stainless steel.  I hope I can capture the amount of corrosion on it.  It is getting thin.  Regarding the secondary elbows on my E1400; they had minimal creosote buildup in them when I inspected them at the end of the heating season last year.  Generally, I will not have to touch those until I shut her down for the summer.  Roger 
Roger

firechief

Holder73 - Thanks for the great pictures.  For sure something to take a close look at.

firechief

Took apart both solenoids yesterday and after 4 full heating seasons they are clean as a whistle !


doctorb

Great pics guys.  I am with Roger...mine looked worse than yours. I clean once per year.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Roger2561

Quote from: firechief on December 03, 2013, 04:00:29 PM
Took apart both solenoids yesterday and after 4 full heating seasons they are clean as a whistle !

firechief - What are you burning for firewood?  Mine is a mix of hardwoods; maple, rock maple, beech, birch, smidgen of elm (worse dang stuff to split) oak and some ash.  Mine is well seasoned being dried for 3 seasons before burning and I still end up with the primary elbow and nipple stuffed with creosote.  But, good on you that they are clean.  They can be a pain in the keaster to clean.thoroughly.  Roger 
Roger

firechief

Roger,

I am about 90-95%red and white oak with a bit of cherry and maple.  A plentiful supply of oak in my area that I have access to, dried for 2 years.

DAP

I also have an Eclassic 2300 that I am having problems with.  I start a fire and when I shut the firebox door the fire will go down to only red coals in less than a minute.  The primary solenoid is open,  the primary solenoid tube area was blocked about 25% with creosote build up which I cleaned out.  The air holes in the firebox have been cleared.  The exhaust side of the system has been cleaned from the reaction chamber thru the tubes to the chimney.  Is it possible there is something else blocking the air flow from the primary solenoid to the air holes in the fire box or is there anything else that should be checked?  This is my 1st year running this 2300.

doctorb

Is your fan running?  CB upgraded the fans on early 2300's  What year was yours manufactured?  (See panel on back of OWB).
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

DAP

Eclassic 2300 was manufactured September 2009

DAP

I neglected to mention that the fan is running.  It seems to be blowing a good amount of air out the fan. 

stratford 50

Make sure the hole in the bottom of  the firebox leading into the reaction chamber is open.

doctorb

Here's how I would test your airflow.  Unload the unburnt wood/logs, leaving the coals.  Open the door and use something (Stick, 2x4) to depress the small pop-up switch on the face of the stove just below the left door hinge, turning the fans back on while the door is open.  Watch as the coals heat up.  If the coals are not completely out, and adequate airflow is entering the firebox, you should start to see glowing coals adjacent to each air hole on the side and back of the stove.  If you don't see that, but the fire slowly increases (usually the center of the coals), then you are not getting adequate airflow through the air chambers and into the firebox when the door is closed, and the only reason you're getting a fire at all is to have it increase with the airflow coming through the open door.

You fire sounds air starved.  It's not a matter of getting a raging blaze with the door open, it's a matter of getting enough airflow through the coal bed to keep the fire going and permit gasification when the door is closed.

Mine was manufactured in March of 200i9, so you should also have the upgraded fan.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

DAP

The hole to the reaction chamber is open.  Before I shut the firebox door I have flames climbing the walls and flowing across the ceiling.  I get smoke out the chimney.  After I shut the door to the firebox I watch the chimney and at 1st there is a lot of smoke coming out then the amount of smoke goes down considerably in less than a minute.  I open the door again and the fire is almost out and only red coals burning. 

DAP

doctorb and strateford50 thanks for your comments.

I will check the air flow as suggested.  I am also curious what the passages look like after the fresh air flows around the corner from the primary solenoid tube as it splits to flow around the firebox to the air holes.  I'll take a mirror and flash light and see if I can look around the corner.

thecfarm

There's a guy,I have no idea his name,on the other side of town that I wish would find all these threads. He has an Eclassic and just about everytime I drive by that thing is smoking. I know it's not right from what you guys are posting.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JJ

Hi DAP,
If you are just starting the woodstove, I would suggest burning for 1-2h with bypass door open, to build up a coal bed, and to warm up the water.
It sounds like stove is too cold, and not enough coals to keep it going.

         JJ

JJ

about the post from thecfarm,
If your neighbor is burning rotten or wet wood in the e-classic, it will make lots of smoke.

        JJ

Roger2561

Quote from: DAP on December 04, 2013, 10:54:47 AM
doctorb and strateford50 thanks for your comments.

I will check the air flow as suggested.  I am also curious what the passages look like after the fresh air flows around the corner from the primary solenoid tube as it splits to flow around the firebox to the air holes.  I'll take a mirror and flash light and see if I can look around the corner.

That's not a bad idea if you can get a mirror in there.  One thing I do is remove all of the coals, get head inside the firebox so I can reach those holes in far corners with a screwdriver that I bent.  I wouldn't be surprised if creosote has clogged and is restricting the air flow into the firebox.  As doctorb suggested, press the micro switch that would be between the door and shell to activate the blower.  See if air gets to those coals; they should begin to glow after a couple of seconds.  Roger
Roger

doctorb

I would like to echo JJ's comment.  Are you just starting up the stove for the year?  If so then you have no real coal bed and there's not enough inherent heat in your fire to keep it going.  So before I type out all the tips I have for getting a 2300 up to temperature, tell us whether you have been running it for awhile this year or whether you are just in start up mode.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

DAP

I'm in startup mode.   I went thru various conditions of door open, door shut, bypass vent open, closed to get water up to temp.  I also noticed that when the reaction chamber temperature reached 750 degrees that the high temp valve would open along with having the low temp valve open.  Is this valve setup to control the temp in the reaction chamber so it doesn't get to hot?  The main problem I have had is keeping the fire going and as a result have been cleaning and inspecting all air passages.
1. cleared air holes in fire box
2. Used a coat hanger to get into the air passages and make sure nothing was blocked between air holes.
3. Found air hole in back corners below the round air hole.  It looks like this slot helps direct air down into the coals or is possibly a clean out slot to get stuff out of the air passage.
4. Used shop vac to help clear out air passages.
5. Started a fire in the firebox however it would not keep going without opening fill door.
6. The air flow thru the holes did not seem enough to keep the fire going.
7. Remove valve that controls air flow to the air holes and inserted shop vac line into pipe to blow air into air holes with shop vac instead of fan on boiler.  This provided enough air that the boiler would heat up with the fill door shut.  I have checked out the box that the fan is mounted to and don't see any leak paths,  the door seal looks good.  Is it possible the valve does not open enough and restricts the air flow to the air holes?
8. After water was up to temp both the low and high temp valves shut and about a minute later the fan shut off.
9.  Now that the water temp is down it appears that there is not enough heat in the firebox to get the fire going again.


Any comments would be appreciated.

JJ

It seems like you have check all of the air intakes, so maybe no problem there.
Is there a cap on the chimney? 
How much smoke do you see coming out of chimney, with all the doors closed, and cover on the air box?
with the bypass door open, even with wet wood, you should have lots of smoke, and enough fire to heat up the water.

I would be cautious about using the shop vac to blow air on the fire.  To do this, the air box must be open, and I think fire can come back out the airbox, through the lower air intake.

Also, with the air box cover open, the blower will not be able to force any air into the stove.
Just a thought.

           JJ

DAP

I have also cleaned all the passages for the exhaust and the chimney did have a cap over it during the summer but I removed it before trying to start the boiler.  I only tried the shop vac to see if it was possible to get enough air into the firebox to keep the fire going with the fill door shut and the bypass closed.  It seems to me that with all air passages clear for fresh air and exhaust that I either need to do something different with the 1st fire I build in the boiler so there are more hot coals or I need to look more closely at the "fresh air fan box" for problems.  after trying the shop vac for fresh air I also tried running the boiler without the low temp valve installed.  This also worked well except it can not stay this way because when the fill door is open there is no way to close the passageway to the air holes in the firebox.  Without the valve the system came up to heat as it should.  Water at 190 degrees and the reaction chamber was at 750 degrees.

Smoke:  Lots of smoke while filling firebox with a fire already started.  Some smoke out the chimney however as the reaction chamber reached 750 degrees it appeared that the smoke was less.  When water was up to temp the smoke went down to almost none out the chimney when the valves closed and the fan shut off.


JJ

That sounds about right.  I think you are on your way.
I set my e-2300 at 190F.  Runs better and cleaner.
When loading, scrape along air holes daily and load new wood bark side down.
Don't over think it, and let it cycle.  I only open mine 2x daily to load new wood.

Every other week, clean out ash from reaction chamber, and once monthly, brush ream the heat exchange tubes, (where the turburlators are) and clean this area as well.

             JJ

JJ

One note, if very cold (<10F) increase freq of clean-outs.

            JJ

DAP

Filled firebox yesterday afternoon.  Checked this morning around 10 a.m. and the boiler had just cycled with water temp at 190 degrees and reaction chamber temp at 900 degrees.  Opened firebox and found 2 pieces of wood left in bottom.   Cleared area in center for air flow into reaction chamber.  Air holes looked clear.  Filled with wood and had a blazing fire before I could close the door.

Checked boiler 4 hours after filling and found water temp at 170 degrees and reaction chamber temp at 270 degrees.  Firebox full of wood, fan running and no fire?????  I thought I had it going after running for 16 hours however it seems that there is still something to be done.  I don't have the manual however it makes me wonder if I need to change the timer to keep the firebox warm or load wood differently.

Roger2561

Quote from: DAP on December 08, 2013, 11:37:41 PM
Filled firebox yesterday afternoon.  Checked this morning around 10 a.m. and the boiler had just cycled with water temp at 190 degrees and reaction chamber temp at 900 degrees.  Opened firebox and found 2 pieces of wood left in bottom.   Cleared area in center for air flow into reaction chamber.  Air holes looked clear.  Filled with wood and had a blazing fire before I could close the door.

Checked boiler 4 hours after filling and found water temp at 170 degrees and reaction chamber temp at 270 degrees.  Firebox full of wood, fan running and no fire?????  I thought I had it going after running for 16 hours however it seems that there is still something to be done.  I don't have the manual however it makes me wonder if I need to change the timer to keep the firebox warm or load wood differently.

I have never filled mine.  I always put in just enough wood to last 12 hours.  Roger
Roger

doctorb

I wish I could be of more help.

BTW - don't clear the area in the center part of the floor of the firebox of coals.  That's the area that the smoke from those hot coals gets blown down into the reaction chamber and burns the smoke for better efficiency and more heat.  So if you are "clearing the area" over the center of the firebox, you are inhibiting the desired process of downdraft gasification.  Leave the red hot coals on top of those transverse bars.  It will burn very poorly without those coals there.  The air will get through them, don't worry about that.   It's only when you have dense ash (almost like a heavy powder or sand) that you have to remove it.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

JJ

Hi DAP
When I load wood, I always make sure that the down draft is not blocked by a log, by kitty cornering few pieces of wood over the hole.
Also I concur with DrB, coal bed should cover the hole.
Also I only load enough wood for 12h, which is about a 1/3 load in fire box currently (one full wheelbarrow).
Too much wood, and it can bridge, leaving the wood out of contact with coal bed.
Takes a little experience, as it is not same as regular wood stove.  Hang in, I think you are getting there.

          JJ

stumper

It is vitally important to keep a good bed of coals.  If I let mine get down to just two peices of wood I have lost most of my coals and will have issues.  I always load enough wood to get me through the next 12 hours plus another 4 to 6 so I keep my coal bed.

DAP

Thanks for the comments.  This evening when I get home I will make sure holes are clear,  leave the coals in the center,  stack the wood a little differently and not as high.

holder73

DAP, I have a idea that may help you out, do you have the firestar electronic control panel?  My unit is a eclassic 1400 so I wasn't sure, but I think they are the same control panel, if so, what is your air pulse time set to?  This is the function that turns the fan on every so often to keep your coals/fire lit.  The factory default setting for this is to run for 60 sec. every 30 minutes.  My experience was that this was way too long in between pulses to keep the fire lit in my OWB.  One of the first things I did when I started it up last year (my first season) was change this setting, some valuable info. I learned on this forum after my fire went out the very first night.  I changed mine to run every 5 minutes for 50 seconds.  May sound like a lot, but the fire never goes out this way unless the coal/ash bed gets really thick and air flow is blocked into the reaction chamber.  I have ran it this way in August just heating domestic hot water, which has very little heat draw and it will still stay lit with loading it once every 24 hours with a few pieces of wood.  This may be over kill for heating season when there is more heat draw, which makes the fire burn more, but I don't want my fire going out in the middle of the night.    If you don't have the manual that tells you how to change this setting, let me know and I can walk you through it in detail.  Hope you get it working right!

DAP

holder73 thanks for the tip.  I don't have the manual so I am at a loss on making any changes.  I believe it does have the firestar controller.  The only thing I know for sure is the water temp is set at 190 degrees and that is only from watching the boiler kick off at 190 degrees.  It would be great if I could check the frequency and duration of having the fan on and valve open.

Roger2561

DAP - Holder may onto something here.  I too have the E-classic 1400 with the pulse set to run every 5 minutes for 50 seconds.  Running it this way ensures the coals are always hot.  As the winter progresses here in NH and it stays cold and load demand increases I'll change it to 8 or 9 minutes for 50 seconds.  If you get a copy of the manual from Central Boiler, I think you'll learn a lot of how these run.  Roger
Roger

holder73

DAP, here are the steps for making changes if you have the Firestar controller.  On the top left you will see the Menu button, hold down the Menu button for 10 seconds to enter setup mode, the display will change from the water temp. to display 1.  Press menu again and it will show the current setting for control variable 1. use the up or down arrows to make changes to this setting, then press menu again to return back to 1.  Once back to 1. pressing the up or down arrows will move you to through the other control variables.  There are 3 control variables you might want to change here in setup mode and they are numbered 1. 2. 3.) 
1. is the water temp. differential, factory default is 10 degrees, this defines the range from the water temp. setpoint in which the system can idle.  So if you are set at 190 then once you drop to 180 it will kick on and heat back up to 190.
2. is the idle "pulse" timeout, factory default is 30 minutes, this is the one I recommend changing to 5 minutes and see if it helps your problem.  This determines how often the fan turns on to keep the fire/coals lit while in idle.
3. is the idle "pulse" length, factory default is 50 seconds, this determines how long the fan runs when it turns on in the idle pulse, i recommend leaving it on 50

So to change your idle pulse time, simply hold down menu for 10 seconds or until 1. appears, then push the up arrow to get 2. on the display, push menu again and it will show your current idle pulse setting, push the down arrow to change it to 5, press menu again and up arrow to 3. press menu again to check that this setting is on 50.
Just a note not doing anything for 10 seconds will take you out of setup mode and water temp will display again.  To change the operating temperature of the OWB, press menu and it will show the current setting (190 in your case, maybe?) 185 is the factory default, hold down menu and press the up or down arrows to make changes to the water temp. setting.  The manual does not recommend operating below 185 to help reduce condensation in the firebox but it is adjustable from 170 to 195.
Hope these instructions are clear, its not as hard as it sounds once you get some hands own experience with it.  Let me know if you have questions or if this helps

firechief

Woke up yesterday morning, thought the house felt a little chilly.  Told the wife that something is wrong with the OWB. Sure enough, went outside to find my Taco 007 shot again. This is my 5th heating season and believe it or not, my 5th Taco pump (I'm beginning to see a pattern here).
Not really sure what the issue is, I'm past believing Taco had a bad bunch of pumps made.  Being they have a 3 year warranty, I've never had to buy a new one.  Problem now is my original dealer was booted by Central Boiler for not selling enough.  They were a 15 minute one way trip.  My new dealer is now a 1 hour one way trip.  So after 2 hours driving and a new Taco 007, I'm back in business. If it wouldn't have been for the warranty I would have never made the trip.  Seriously considering switching to a different brand pump and trashing the Taco brand.  I've heard of others here on the forum that have switched with success.  Not really sure what the issue is with these. I have an E Classic 2300.

That being said, I will put a plug in for my new dealer Topeka Seed and Feed in Topeka, Indiana.  Jody and Janet were very knowledgable and friendly, enjoyed my visit with them. Just wish they weren't so far away!

thecfarm

I run the same ones on my Heatmor,Taco 007. They have been on there at least 4 years. At one time I had 013. They was pushing the water too fast and when it came back to the pump it was pushing the fins. I don't know,sounds good. Bit as soon as I went to the 007's the problem went away. Sorry to hear of your problem.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

DAP

holder73 thanks for the instructions.  Its seems straight forward so I shouldn't have any problems changing the set point.  This morning the stove is still running however the water temp was down to 177 and the reaction chamber temp at approximately 220.  I loaded more wood in the firebox and before leaving for work noticed the water temp up to 187 degrees and the reaction chamber temp at 1,430 degrees.  I would think the reaction chamber temp is really low at 220 degrees and surprised that the fire started up again. 

Firechief,  I have been to Topeka at the store you are talking about.  There are some good people there.  Its about 45 minutes one way for me.

firechief

Hey DAP

Didn't see where you were from until now.  I'm just here in Mishawaka, run through your town quite often.

upsnake

Dap - I have a 1400.

Water temp of 177 and reaction of 220, depending on the time in the burn cycle seems completely normal to me.
The reaction chamber when not actively burning is going to cool down to about the same as the water temp.

The question is how fast does it start to climb once the fans come on.
If it climbing good then it is working perfectly normal. :)

Logging logginglogging

On my Eclassic 2300 I clear the air holes with a screwdriver, when I clean my stove and scrape my firebox every 3 weeks.
daily I use a garden how to clean off the shelves and the front of the air holes when I do this, I spread coals around near the freshly scraped holes, and it causes the goo to ignite, I use a shovel against my switch to keep the blower going, and it burns all that goo right out, looks like a blow tourch coming out of all the air holes.

DAP

firechief,  its good to see someone in the area using this forum. 

Thanks for the comments from everyone.  The last couple of days it looks like the 2300 is working as it should.


holder73

 I had a idea to get a propane torch to clean the air holes on my eclassic 1400 , found one one eBay and northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company in $30 range, 24 inch torch wand with 5 foot hose to hook to standard 20 pound propane tank, wondering if anyone has tried this, thought it might work good to burn out the creosote, what u guys think?

beenthere

Are you thinking the torch will get the creosote hot enough to burn it?

Let us know how it works..  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

I've got one of those. Works good to start brush fires and to get rid of ground hornets. I have no idea if it would work or not. I would think it would take 5-10 minutes.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

holder73

Yeah, I had thought it would just burn up the creosote, hadn't thought about how long it would take, just thought it might beat sticking my head in there with the screwdriver, I will give it a try over next couple weeks and let you know how it works, I maybe thinking too much again, could be dangerous!, ha

go green

Go to centralboiler.com and watch the refueling tips in the video and brochure section. 
Very important to use poker through the ash bed each day before reloading and keep reaction chamber cleaned out often enough, all the way to the back of the reaction chamber.  Be sure to read the owners manual and maintain the inhibitor level in the water jacket.

Yes if you do get it plugged up, a propane torch could be used to help clean out.  Best if water temp is 190 degrees.  Check the elbow in back.  Once you get it cleaned up it will not plug up again if you use the cleaning rod through the ash bed each day before you reload.  Ash will flow into reaction chamber and not be so deep they funnel creosote into air inlets.  Creosote will move down past the holes into ash bed when lower. 

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