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353 detroit not starting after changing fuel filters?

Started by logman81, November 13, 2013, 06:20:05 PM

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logman81

So my skidder started running rough a couple days ago of and on. It isn't smoking at all so I figured it might be the fuel filters so I changed them today. I filled them with fuel and put the new filters back on. I got it to start and it ran for about a minute them died. Tried to re start it a few times but couldn't get it to run again. I checked the filters and both are full of fuel so I know the pump it fine. To me it seems I'm not getting fuel to the injectors? What should I do?
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cutter88

put a 4bt cummins in it...lol      I would start by cracking the injector lines to make sure its getting fuel
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Morewood

check the fuel return line coming from a fitting on the end of the head first , this fitting is a orifice that makes the pressure . You should have fuel coming out of the return line while cranking the engine with the starter. (pumps don't make pressure they make flow / restriction to flow makes pressure )
Frank
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logman81

Ok looks like I'll have to play mechanic again and pull the valve cover off and check the injectors for fuel thanks.
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Maine logger88

I had the same issue with my tj225 with a 353 try blowing compressed air back through the line till you hear fuel bubbling in the tank then fill the filters and try again. It worked for me may work for you
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snowstorm

Quote from: logman81 on November 13, 2013, 07:19:50 PM
Ok looks like I'll have to play mechanic again and pull the valve cover off and check the injectors for fuel thanks.
dont take the cover off. the fuel pump is a gear pump so it will not lift if it dosent have fuel in the pump. the fitting in the head is a resstricton fitting unlikely any trouble there. running it should have 65psi fuel pressure at wot 10 at idle. the easy way to get it started. take the fuel cap off put air  hose in just enought to put a little pressure in the tank it forces fuel to the pump .when changing filters fill them put em on then take the plug out on the filter base and put some more in till it runs out. that way most of the air is out

bushmechanic

Get a can of fuel and a length of 3/8 fuel line then put the can above the engine. Get the fuel flowing down then pull off the machines fuel line on the primary filter and install the other line on the filter housing, now start up the engine. When it gets running good take off the temporary line and install the machines own line. Keep the rpm's up as you will likely get air in the line but she should smooth out shortly or it may shut off in which case just try and start it again. By doing this it is the quickest way to get a 353 going and it also will tell you if your fuel pump is working.If it runs on the can and won't run on the machines own line then you either have a restriction in the line or the fuel pump has trouble (most cases the drive coupling is stripped). Good luck.   

ga jones

As snowstorm said stick a hose from an air compressor or an air tank into the fuel tank rap a rag around the hose and pressurize the fuel tank then crank it over.
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logman81

All good things to try thanks. I don't think it is the fuel pump because it was running fine just sputtering once in awhile. I'm wondering if their could be a little water in fuel and that was causing it to run a little off.
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ga jones

If it was sputtering a little before. It's most likely the fuel pump. The shaft wears and the seal sucks air.detroits are very sensitive to air. Put a clear fuel hose on between the pump and the head. Throttle it up and let of u may see air bubbles in the fuel.if you got running again of course.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

timberlinetree

Had a fuel pump go bad and gave me the same type of problem..also check for a collapsed or pinched fuel line. Good luck.
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logman81

Thanks I really don't think it's the fuel pump it was running perfect a few days ago.
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thenorthman

could be as simple as when you changed filters you got a bit of air in the line, causing the infection pump to skip a few beats.  May need to just reprime the whole system.

Or worst case the filters where not the original problem and the pump was.  They can fail without much warning.
well that didn't work

snowstorm

Quote from: thenorthman on November 15, 2013, 02:55:22 PM
could be as simple as when you changed filters you got a bit of air in the line, causing the infection pump to skip a few beats.  May need to just reprime the whole system.

Or worst case the filters where not the original problem and the pump was.  They can fail without much warning.
detroits do not have an injection pump

logman81

I think it's air in the system and just needs re priming, yes no injection pump.
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ga jones

Did u get it running yet? If its running and not straightening out right away it's sucking air.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

ga jones

A detroit will run the air out of the system in a couple of minutes once its running.If u got it running and it's spitting and sputtering the same way as before u changed the filters it's sucking air. There are 4 main ways to suck air. Bad fuel line,bad filter base, bad fuel pump, cracked jumper lines on the injectors.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

OntarioAl

logman81
Sounds like an air locked fuel  pump. Follow Snowstorm's instructions and you will get the air out of the pump. Any trapped air  and the little pump just whirls away but no fuel moves between the two  filters.
The filters remain just as full as when you filled them because the pump being air locked will not pull fuel through the primary filter and push it through the secondary filter.
I learned this the hard way many years ago when I first started playing around with Detroit Diesels.
Hope this helps
Al
Al Raman

David-L

Logman, been through this before and it was air that was the culprit. It does straighten up once you get it running, if not well like everyone has said ( air is getting in to the system). Do you have spin on filters or cartridge type. make sure the gaskets are good.

                                                 David

RI engine in Narraganset has mobil 1630 straight motor oil (low ash content for that motor in stock )
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

thenorthman


[/quote] detroits do not have an injection pump
[/quote]

D'oh... should probably spell check myself a little better...  thought I had deleted that?
well that didn't work

John Woodworth

One trick to keep up your sleeve, I always carry a electric fuel pump in the truck for priming when necessary, the bigger Detroits sometimes need a little help and it's easier than using a bladder bag, just undo the line from the tank and plumb it into the filter with rubber hose, let it run for a minute, start the machine then re-hook up the fuel line.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

logman81

Thanks for all your help, it's up and running like a chap again it was just air in the pump. I followed snowstorms advice and it worked as he said it would. Problem solved!
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beenthere

That is good to hear. FF does it again.  8)

Good on ya snowstorm.
south central Wisconsin
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logman81

Yes thanks to every one who helped out. Now I can move it to a nice saw log lot.
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Stephen Alford

   Glad to hear your up and running again Logman81.  Thought I might add a pic if you don't mind, for someone new to the 353 Detroit who might happen along to this thread.


 


 
These are the plugs to take out to top off the filter after a change.  I find these mix syringes handy to have in the go to box.

 
This is the block heater port. The element has a 90 degree bend.


 
Find these "ford batteries" pretty decent. They are about 20 inches long and do not fit in most cars and trucks.  I always get a chuckle to see were a night visitor has looked but turned their nose up. "knock on wood"

I have only ever had the one skidder  so not an expert , I am just so impressed by folks on here willing to share their expertise wanted to give what I had.  Look forward to pics of the new site.   :)
logon

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