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scouting ?? a meal

Started by red oaks lumber, November 12, 2013, 06:16:30 PM

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red oaks lumber

today at the shop i went out back to check the wood stove. i suppose i should explain the shop layout, it sits in about 80 acres of open pastures. any way when i stepped outside and could see one of my herd of  beef that pasture fairly close were running all towards one direction. i moved to were i could see the patures better, sure enough about 250 yrds away up on a knowl a big timber wolf was walking slowley and then stopped.
after standing and looking for maybe 30 seconds he sits down then lays down, like  dogs do when they watch over everything. i went in the shop and got my binocs , he was a very big impressive male! by this time the cattle have gotten within 50 yrds of the wolf without anyone getting spooked. he watched for maybe 20 minutes and then stood up and slowly walked away.
my guess is he was scouting out the herd to see if there were any weak ones they could sort out for a kill. come morning i'll count cattle and see what happened, i suspect they will try for a kill tonight. ;)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

OneWithWood

One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

drobertson

Not sure I would like to see this, are you opposed to snuffing him out?  is it legal to do?   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

chevytaHOE5674

That's why you always have to have the rifle handy.....

SPIKER

Lots of them critters have collars for tracking on them, not sure in your area however.   I know at one point if you can prove relocated wolf killed your cattle Gov will pay you for the loss cost.

One of the other threads about the logging TV Shows I posted about ALASKA Kiltchers TV show (forget the name) they have cattle and show this week they took out Grizzly & week prior a Big Wolf on one of the other shows.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

justallan1

I'm not totally sure of the specifics of the law, but in Montana if it's harassing the livestock I believe it's free game.

Allan

Peter Drouin

It's like that in NH play with my livestock and your done   ;)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

red oaks lumber

went out this morning, did a head count all accounted for. :) then i realized that i was missing a goat. not just any goat, this ol girl came from an abusive farm,its front leg was deformed from getting it broken years ago,and was raised with cattle.
when we brought her home she would not stay with my wifes goats, instead make her way out to the pasture where cows were. so thats where she called home.
sadly i found her partially eaten body on the edge of a grassy fenceline. :(
yesterday the position of the wolf, there was no safe shooting lane. so add this to another chapter of the farmer trying to co exsist with the wolf .and the battle lives on.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Chuck White

Same here in New York!  As others have said, if a coyote, wolf, bear, domestic dog, whatever the animal, if it's messing with someones livestock, anyone witnessing the event can legally shoot to kill even if they have no connection with the livestock or the owner!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

luvmexfood

I would check with the US Fish and Wildlife about replacement cost for your "best prized goat".
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

WDH

Steve,

Sorry to hear about your goat. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

red oaks lumber

the thing i have learned about the state wildlife agency if, you have problem wolves or other animals and  you report the problems to the athorities, you suddenly become under servalence. they acutally will try to catch you killing problem animals and will try connecting you to any activity within about 20 miles. this is a fact, ive been harrassed and also my niebors.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

ND rancher

There are certain things that you do when you have problems with predators, and state agency's aren't one of them.The practice of the three S's is most used :rifle: I'm digging a hole smiley_lipsrsealed   
TimberKing B-20.  Have been bitten by the bug! Loving life !

gunman63


red oaks lumber

we should be able to use the defense of "stand your ground" :D
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

beenthere

And worse than just the state agency will be the Feds (USFWS).

Fellow I met had a wolf tag for northern WI and got one. First had to go through the hoops with the State DNR, and then come to find out, had to go through more hoops with the USFWS which couldn't be done without traveling at a later date back to northern WI to claim/retrieve the hide. Something about the carcass couldn't be separated from the hide (completely) until the USFWS did their thing with the carcass. Everyone needs to be in on the action... maybe even the Indian tribes.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

red oaks lumber

the  native americans get half of the wolf tags. since they veiw the wolf as a brother those tags wont be filled ;)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

beenthere

red oaks
How do they figure in those tags when the managers are closing the zones when they get close to or over the zone quota?

If the native tribes hold on to their tags, then seems they would not close any zones.  Puzzling...
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

chevytaHOE5674

I've "heard" from people who know some people who know a guy someplace that the way to deal with them is shoot them in the hindend so that they don't die on the spot they will run away and die someplace else and nobody will know who shot it.....

This is all just a story I heard from a guy at the local watering hole though.

coxy

Quote from: Chuck White on November 13, 2013, 06:09:21 PM
Same here in New York!  As others have said, if a coyote, wolf, bear, domestic dog, whatever the animal, if it's messing with someones livestock, anyone witnessing the event can legally shoot to kill even if they have no connection with the livestock or the owner!
me  shot first ask permission  later  ;D ;D

coxy

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 14, 2013, 06:26:53 PM
I've "heard" from people who know some people who know a guy someplace that the way to deal with them is shoot them in the hindend so that they don't die on the spot they will run away and die someplace else and nobody will know who shot it.....

This is all just a story I heard from a guy at the local watering hole though.
sounds good to me :)

Magicman

If it is wearing a tracking collar, I guess that you would also need a big hammer.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

red oaks lumber

its not wearing a collar, i was looking at it this morning thru my scope :) not saying my scope is connected to my rifle tho :D
he showed up to the same grassy knowl as he did the other day, the weird part was i walked 200yds sorta towards him in the wide open pasture and he never got spooked or even concerned .
beenthere
why is that puzzling? if the "managers" have a harvest goal, knowing the indians get half, raise your tag numbers to reflect that.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

red oaks lumber

this morning like most sunday mornings my wife and myself walked down to the farm with our small dogs with us.the walk is about 3/8 of a mile thru the open pasture, just after we got into the pasture i noticed a wolf slowly trotting from my left to right at maybe 75 yrds. he kept trotting when my smallest dog started chasing the wolf, i took running after whistling at my dog.the wolf stopped looking back at us, im still whistling and running towards my dog.the wolf starts trotting again and went in the edge of the grassy fenceline, i finally catch my dog and noticed at about 30 yrds the wolf was standing in the taller grass of the fenceline just watching us.
with the absence of deer in our area , im afraid this might be a long and costly winter. we worked cattle yesterday, and the total number of calves born in the spring to the number we counted yesterday we were 3 short. did they get sick and just die? sure anything is possible but, weve been doing this for over fourty yrs. and whenever we have shortages we always have a increased sightings of wolves.
they drew first blood! let the war begin :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

LAZERDAN

It's been said here before:  A few candy coated doughnuts and your life will get alot better.  We always have coons in the sweet corn, some times you need to be quietly proactive.           Lazerdan

beenthere

red oaks..
Might be the time to start some training on the small dog..  get him/her to listen to you.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

chevytaHOE5674

Do you have any donkeys running with your cattle?

I have a couple miniature donkeys running with the cows and that has really helped with predators.

red oaks lumber

getting a smell she's never smelt, no amount of training is holding that back :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

customsawyer

Hate to hear of your troubles but feel confident you will figure it out. ;)
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Magicman

It also sounds like it has no fear of you.  I agree with Jake above.   ;)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

goose63

 :rifle: :rifle: That's all I got to say it's what we do here
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

JohnM

I'm guessing this is the one and only post where we won't ask for pics. ;) :) :-X
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

Gunny 1992

Heck No!  Pic's are fine by me.  You may not want to do that though?  Good Luck with the hunt, oh, FIXING the problem!
Few saws, few axes, few exes, less money!

Gunny

Clark

Steve - I'd say you're in a tough situation with trying to remove that animal and have it done without losing more animals. Any APHIS trappers available?

Quote from: coxy on November 14, 2013, 11:13:19 PM
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 14, 2013, 06:26:53 PM
I've "heard" from people who know some people who know a guy someplace that the way to deal with them is shoot them in the hindend so that they don't die on the spot they will run away and die someplace else and nobody will know who shot it.....

This is all just a story I heard from a guy at the local watering hole though.
sounds good to me :)

I heard a guy last weekend say about wolves, "just shoot 'em in the guts".  This sort of behavior disgusts me.  It's one thing to break the law and quite frankly, I don't care if you choose to do that, it's your choice.  What does bother me is that others have the gall to kill an animal in the most marginally lethal manner. 

If you want them dead, kill them like any man would. 

If you want tip-toe around the law and act like the insolent brat that you are, then shoot them in the guts.  Let them run around for a while before they die. Show the lack of respect that will ultimately lead to anti-hunters gaining ground with the non-hunting population.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

red oaks lumber

clark
earlier today i was thinking about the trapping route also, i would prefer someone more skilled with wolves to handle the problems.
i'm with you, if i'm pulling the trigger its for a clean kill no matter the animal.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: Clark on November 18, 2013, 04:46:32 PM
I heard a guy last weekend say about wolves, "just shoot 'em in the guts".  This sort of behavior disgusts me.

What disgusts me is when a cow goes down to calf and then the wolves eat her hind end as she is giving birth (still alive but unable to get up), they then get full and walk away leaving her to die there a slow death. Then the Gov't comes out and tells you sorry for the loss here is a check for $207 dollars, when the animal is worth at least 10x that amount.

Then when asked what you can do to control the problem they say you can't shoot a wolf until you witness it injuring or killing your stock (in their words "it has to draw blood first"). If you shoot before then you can/will be faced with fines and jail time.

So what is a guy to do? Leave his animals/paycheck out there as bait and wait for them to get attacked to do things legally?

Roxie

Is it feasible to put a mule or two out with the pregnant cows? 
Say when

chevytaHOE5674

I have a few donkeys out with the cows and it helps. But if you get a pack of wolves that are hungry there is only so much they can do before they become dinner themselves...

red oaks lumber

i have llamas in with my cow/calf herd, since doing that 7-8 yrs ago the fatality rate has gone way down. i have been thinking about donkeys as protection.
the thing i notice about grazing cattle is, they spread out all over the pasture making it all the more difficult for a llama or donkey to protect every area.
my daughter came home sunday evening(after i went to bed) as she was pulling into our yard she said a wolf was just standing in the yard real close to the house ;)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

ND rancher

There must be a way to protect the livestock from them.Seems like the officials are giving you the run around. I would not let them do that. Just my .02$.  Just heard of 2 cows that were attacked by mt. lion,20 miles away from me.It hasn't died yet but it will.2 wks. ago one was shot 3 miles from me in a residential area. Still 2 more that were spotted in the area, worst year yet. 
TimberKing B-20.  Have been bitten by the bug! Loving life !

stumpjumper83

Do you own a backhoe by chance? 

trapper

Is the wolf season still open in your area?  If so can you find someone with a permit? 
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

red oaks lumber

yes the season is still open, with the eve of deere season the dnr says "their to busy" to assist with finding a trapper in our area
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

JohnM

Quote from: red oaks lumber on November 19, 2013, 12:53:02 PM
yes the season is still open, with the eve of deere season the dnr says "their to busy" to assist with finding a trapper in our area
GREEN LIGHT!! ;) ;D
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: JohnM on November 19, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
GREEN LIGHT!! ;) ;D

Just remember that plenty of the wolves in the upper great lakes are collared or micro-chipped and they emit a mortality signal when they die. So the Gov't knows when and where they die....

JohnM

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 19, 2013, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: JohnM on November 19, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
GREEN LIGHT!! ;) ;D

Just remember that plenty of the wolves in the upper great lakes are collared or micro-chipped and they emit a mortality signal when they die. So the Gov't knows when and where they die....
Yellow light? ??? :-[
Lucas 830 w/ slabber; Kubota L3710; Wallenstein logging winch; Split-fire splitter; Stihl 036; Jonsered 2150

BobInMN

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 19, 2013, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: JohnM on November 19, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
GREEN LIGHT!! ;) ;D

Just remember that plenty of the wolves in the upper great lakes are collared or micro-chipped and they emit a mortality signal when they die. So the Gov't knows when and where they die....


What's the range on one of those chips?
Retired US Army, Retired Civil Engineering Technician, Retired State Employee, most of all just plain tired.

Chuck White

Quote from: JohnM on November 19, 2013, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on November 19, 2013, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: JohnM on November 19, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
GREEN LIGHT!! ;) ;D

Just remember that plenty of the wolves in the upper great lakes are collared or micro-chipped and they emit a mortality signal when they die. So the Gov't knows when and where they die....
Yellow light? ??? :-[


I'd bet those signals (if there are any) would not be detected if the one with the collar or microchip was underground, the depth that a backhoe can reach!  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Axe Handle Hound

Quote from: red oaks lumber on November 19, 2013, 12:53:02 PM
yes the season is still open, with the eve of deere season the dnr says "their to busy" to assist with finding a trapper in our area

Did you try calling USDA APHIS in Rhinelander?  They deal with the nuisance animal concerns and nearly everyone there is a trapper. 


beenthere

Axe
See red oaks post #11 in this thread. Might tend to agree with him... as it makes you be in their spotlight.

Now he is only in our spotlight...   ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

trapper

I just sent an e-mail to president and vice president of wi trappers to see if they can get us connected with someone with a permit.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Axe Handle Hound

Quote from: beenthere on November 19, 2013, 07:34:59 PM
Axe
See red oaks post #11 in this thread. Might tend to agree with him... as it makes you be in their spotlight.

Now he is only in our spotlight...   ;D

I did read that post, but I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that this open internet forum is out of the agency spotlight.  How do we know some of our members aren't wildlife officers?  Also consider that the more nuisance complaints received the more likely it is that additional harvest tags will be issued.   

beenthere

Axe

I hear ya and do agree, and meant "in our spotlight" to include members or just readers who could well be  wildlife officers and/or supporters. Red oaks has likely considered that as well.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

red oaks lumber

heres alittle story...
somewhere around 10 yrs ago we really had predation problems, we lost 5 calfs and were nursing a calf that had a good part of it hindend eaten off tail included upto the spot where it attaches to the spine..
my dad called the "wolf" experts over in parkfalls wi. he gave them addresses phone # name everything. did they come over to look around? yes but, not to see about the problems only to snoop and spy on us.we started seeing the same vehicles around our area watching our movements, also had neibors tell us the dnr has been poking around asking questions about us killing wolves.
by starting this thread i knew very easy "guests" of the forum might have ties with consevation wardens so, talking about it here dosent bother me because of the fact we have been "watched" for yrs. as for the more complaints the more kill tags? i dont believe the state can connect the dots to come up with more kill tags.
edit: i'm not trying to make this a warden bashing, just pointing out some of the behavior we've seen.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

BobInMN

Don't Craig & Kyle Cable do some trapping up there, that is if you know them?
Retired US Army, Retired Civil Engineering Technician, Retired State Employee, most of all just plain tired.

red oaks lumber

i know who kyle is, i'll have to find out if he can trap. thanks!
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

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