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why does my blade dive when entering the log?

Started by JB Griffin, November 11, 2013, 10:37:49 PM

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JB Griffin

Almost every cut I notice when I pull the slab off the cut low for the first 2-6in then levels out and is dead flat.
Tried 4-5 resharpened but not set blades with same result finally broke down and bought 5 new simmonds blades
and it helped alot but not quite there yet. All logs are 2 years old in varying states of decay. My mill is a Keener Built
full hyd with a 25 hp Koler. Also slowed down to a crawl at start for first 8-12in then sped up a little.
Could it be the dry hard logs, red oak, hickory, spalted sycamore, and cedar. Twice so far the last board board
has started full thickness and tapered down noticeably half way down to 1/4 in or so.
Very Frustrated?? ??? ??? ???   
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Chuck White

There are so many things that can cause your problem.

Blades would be my first guess, alignment would be second!

By the way, welcome to the Forestry Forum.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

drobertson

I would have to ask, was this doing this all along?  are you on the big end of the log, mainly the butt end? and in either case check your alignment.  A little can do allot to diving.  If it starts to dive, My main thought is the guides are angled down.  But, butt cuts will do close to the same thing if the cut starts on the big end.  At least on my mill.  I always try to start the cut on the small end, regardless of travel time through the log.  It has made a big difference for my quality.    david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

JB Griffin

I have been puttin logs on the mill just as they lay but have noticed if  they are butt first I have more trouble. It has been doin this since I bought the mill been thinkin something worked loose on the way home but I cant find anything
as of yet. The guides on this mill are all on top and on the sides of the rail over head. Bearings in the guide rollers are
a bit loose but not bad, at least not by my standards.   
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

drobertson

Many folks run logs as they lay,  And if the alignment is spot on, there should be no real issues.  I have just found that I saw better lumber with the small end first, regardless of alignment.  It is a bit of a chore, but one chore worth my time, switching ends when need be.   Just my humble opinion.  Still yet, really give the alignment a good looking over,  chances are it is a touch out,   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

JB Griffin

Thanks David and btw I found a couple places buying 4/4 lumber one is flooring i'll look that thing over real good again
when I git a chance.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

drobertson

griff, if its diving consistently, don't wait too long,  it should be a simple (relatively) speaking fix.  Take care,
david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

JB Griffin

What should I be lookin for you reckon. I have a little experance with a woodmizer lt 28 but my Keener ain't nothin like a Mizer. ???
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

swampbuggy

I had that happen to me too. I went back through my set up and noticed that I had a slight vertical ( top to bottom of the band wheels) tilt while sawing. There were times I could hear it in the blade too. I ended up securing the shafts so that they had a slight downward tilt. I guess you could say I made sure the blade stayed level through the cut.This stopped the blade from wanting to rise and I can tell you that it has made all the difference. I saw mostly SYP or Slash Pine and my lumber is looking great. Even going through knots. I haven't heard the blade sound any different through the cut either.
Is your Keener one that hangs from the top? I always though that was a clever idea. Dan
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

JB Griffin

Yes mine hangs from the top. So you adjusted your guide rollers so the teeth point slightly down?
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

swampbuggy

No, I made sure the band wheels didn't move so the blade stayed level. There was not a lot of movement before but there was some and while doing my checks the blade was level but I could move a wheel and it would rise slightly. It has seemed to work for me on my mill. Dan
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

swampbuggy

my blade guides are ceramic pucks so it is important that the blade stays level between them.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

ladylake


Most of us have trouble with the blade rising the first few inches, when I went to a 4° hook that problem has pretty much gone away until the blade gets dull. As mentioned keep the blade level with the deck, proper set and sharp and it should cut straight.  One other thing with the saw head hanging from above is it possible that there is some play in the head causing it to tilt back some when the blade hits the log which  would point the blade down a little.  Steve



Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

slider

JB woodmizer sells a nifty little clip on strait edge for checking your band on the mill.I use mine every time i do an alignment.
al glenn

thecfarm

JB Griffin,welcome to the forum. Keener Built,that is a new mill for me. I have never seen an overhead track before. I would call the company too. I bet others have had trouble before too.
How long you been sawing?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

JB Griffin

I called the company and Old man Keener died back in august I was lookin for a manual, no luck the guy I talked to said they wanted to put them on cd later but were covered up dealing with liquidating the company. I am going to call back and see if he can tell me anything about adjusting the mill.
I've helped a friend saw 2-3k bft on his lt 28 manual, just started 2 wks ago with my Keener.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Doug Wis

  I bought the smaller keenerbilt mill several years ago. Was wondering if Frank was still going but I guess not. It was 25hp with the same saw head as the overhead one. One thing I noticed was that when you throttled up the whole head would twist abit. But it was running seemed to saw ok. But that might be something to check on. Might be moving differently being hung from above. Also had to do some adjusting on the guides. For those of you who have never heard of keenerbilt Frank keener was a tinkerer who went into production with his mill. Was based out of central ILL.  Think he had 4 employees when I bought mine several years ago. Was the cheapest mill I could find that had power feed and power up and down. Also included a sharpener to sharpen right on the mill. 12 volt motor with a stone on the shaft and a bracket that you laid on the blade. Never worked out very well for me.
A man who says he can do everything at 65 that he did at 25 sure wasn't doing much at 25.

JB Griffin

Doug what did you adjust on your Keener, mine has 8 bearings on top 4 on top 4 on the inner sides 1 top bearing has a bolt and spring on it I assume to put down pressure on it and 2 of the side bearings are on levers with springs on them for side pressure.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

5quarter

JB...Try zinging the ends off one of those old logs. The style of blade your using may not do well in dry wood. Also, sawmill bands are designed to cut wood green. Dry wood will magnify any small trouble that you might otherwise not notice. Also, try speeding up your blade entry a little. creeping into a log will sometimes cause some heat which will cause a loss of blade tension, which is always trouble.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

JB Griffin

I may try speeding up some I have been just crawling into the log.
Been hauling logs have more to haul, had 500+bft of pine give to me along with some blight killed red oak.
Thanks everyone :)
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Sixacresand

As mentioned below, I saw an inch off each end of logs that have been sitting for a while.  As the log sits, the ends dry and get hard and crusty.  If nothing else, it dulls the blade less.  I always enter the log slowly, so as not to cause the blade to "bump" and tilt upward or downward.  I am probably too cautious.  And also mentioned below about entering the small of the log, it works.     
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Magicman

I touch the log end (to stabilize the blade) and then accelerate fairly rapidly.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

JB Griffin

Thanks all, tried a new blade this evening and cured most of the diving but not all.
With a level on the cant the first 4-5" is about 1/16" lower than the rest. Sawed some mostly green pine.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

Doug Wis

  JB.   My mind is getting abit fuzzy memory wise. As I think back it was fine on throttle up, it would twist abit as you started to feed because  the feed drive chain was only on one side. As far as adjustments, I had to adjust the guide rollers and the band wheels to fine tune the tracking. When I picked mine up Frank showed me one of the overhead hyd mills that was nearly completed, but I never looked close at how it carried on the track nor  the feed drive system. Mine rode on 4 wheels on the track and one of those was spring loaded . I remember it was very sensitive to having a sharp blade. I'm not much of an expert on saw adjustment. Just had to jump in cause hardly ever see the  keenerbilt mentioned here. Got a little cash ahead and upgraded to a TK16oo. Sold the keener to a fellow 30 miles up the road . Hope you get it figured out. Nothing more frustrating than doing a crappy job of sawing.
A man who says he can do everything at 65 that he did at 25 sure wasn't doing much at 25.

JB Griffin

My mill does jerk some when I kick it in gear and swing side to side about a 1/4" when you start, drive chain is on one side on mine too.
I second that on being sensitive to a sharp blade mine is cutting alot better with a new one now almost perfect, but not quite yet. ;D
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

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