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Chainsaw concept

Started by Tom Leese, November 11, 2013, 06:44:50 AM

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Tom Leese

Hi this is my first post on this forum. I am a product design student at Staffordshire University (united kingdom) and for my final year project i am looking to design a new chainsaw concept. i would like to ask a couple of questions that would help me with the design process.

What are the needs and requirements that you want out of your chainsaw?

What brand of chainsaw do you use?

Is there anything that need to be changed/improved with current chainsaws?

Thanks

Tom Leese 

bandmiller2

Welcome Tom, chainsaws like most of our complex machinery, evolve. But its not pure evolution its tainted by the bean counters. It will be a tall order to improve the saw much without running into monitary constraints and likely safety concerns. Probibly the best opertunity is alternate power such as electric. Have at it mate we need young innovators. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

JohnG28

You might want to start by taking a look at some of the latest saw technology out now. There is a thread below on Stihl introducing fuel injection, which is not on any chainsaws yet but looks to be in the near future. Also AutoTune from Husqvarna has been out for a few years, and is becoming more prevalent across both Husky and Stihl lines. IMO these technologies are going to likely take saws to their next level. Good place to start brainstorming at least. And welcome to the forum.  ;D
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

lowpolyjoe

I'm a chainsaw novice, but from what I read around here it sounds like Stihl and Husqvarna are the most popular brands for serious workers.  I have a Husqvarna myself.

One thing that I hear people often mention in chainsaw threads is power-to-weight ratio.  Probably more vague than you were looking for, but I imagine anything you can do to improve that will be a win. 

How about some sort of auto-chain sharpener built in  :)    I know there is a model chain that can be sharpened by sticking the nose of the saw into a little box and running it, but I think I heard it's garbage? 

nmurph

At least 5 hp.
No more than 11lbs.
Starts on the first pull everytime regardless of how long the fuel has been sitting in it.
No need to add oil to the gasoline.
No need to sharpen the chain.
No need to add bar oil.

Philbert

Tom,

You need to start by focusing you inquiry more.

Do you want to improve one aspect of modern chainsaws or are you looking for another way to cut wood?  Are you looking at the cutting chain, the power head, safety, efficiency, convenience, durability, etc.?

There are, or have have been, battery, corded electric, diesel, pneumatic, and hydraulic powered chainsaws. Saws with rotary engines. Chainsaws that work under water and chain saws that cut concrete. Wikapeadia shows a medical/bone chainsaw.

Most guys on this forum have different chainsaws for different tasks, so you might want to pick one of those tasks: trimming, limbing, bucking, felling, milling, carving, etc.

Or you might want to look at a specific risk: kickback, vibration, etc.

Philbert

Philbert

Quote from: lowpolyjoe on November 11, 2013, 10:13:58 AMHow about some sort of auto-chain sharpener built in  . . . I know there is a model chain that can be sharpened by sticking the nose of the saw into a little box and running it, but I think I heard it's garbage?

The current Oregon 40 volt battery saw has a built-in chain sharpener, as did a number of saws about 25-30 years ago.

I have used the 'self-sharpening' PowerSharp chain on several saws and like it. It is actually a fairly aggressive, chisel tooth chain.

Philbert

sablatnic

Maybe, like Bandmiller suggested, electric, with lithium a battery and outrunner motor. The full package, with the whole array of chargers, powered by solar cells, thermo elements, wind turbine.

The solar cells maybe integrated as thin film in a tent or on the roof of a camper, the thermo element to use the heat from a camp fire, and the turbine to use the wind up on the ridge.

I don't know, but it sounds interesting!

AdkStihl

Quote from: nmurph on November 11, 2013, 11:37:28 AM
At least 5 hp.
No more than 11lbs.
Starts on the first pull everytime regardless of how long the fuel has been sitting in it.
No need to add oil to the gasoline.
No need to sharpen the chain.
No need to add bar oil.

smiley_clapping
J.Miller Photography

Philbert

I am always amazed at the things people have already tried with chainsaws (not counting the ones I never heard of):

- B&D's Alligator shears are a creative approach for brush, even if executed in a light duty package;

- Chain with replaceable teeth (slide on cutters with dove-tailed slots) was a recent item discussed in chainsaw patents in another thread (maybe in another forum?);

- I think (?) I saw a photo of a prototype chainsaw that climbed tree trunks, removing limbs on the way up.

Maybe a laser guided, climbing saw that keeps people out of trees?

Would be interested to hear what you dream up!

Philbert

redfin

The only thing that really comes to mind is a propane injected saw. But then of course you have to deal with the lubrication and the whole turning the liquid into a gas thing.

I'm building a propane turbo injected buggy.  110 octane and never having to worry my fuel will go bad is why I'm building it that way. Well also, it would run upside down if it wasn't for the oiling issue.

RCBS

Needs:  Reliability, lightweight, power/chain speed, ease of maintenance.

Saws I own:  Echo, Husqvarna, Jonsered.

Improvements needed: see 1st answer.

Good luck to you!
Echo CS-3400, 550xp, Jonsered 2166, L3130 Kubota, '78 JD 300 backhoe, Kubota RTV900, JD2305, lots of sharp stuff and several firearms

shootingarts

Been years but I have worked in R&D. The advice to start with a narrow focus is very good and also when you find an area of interest the first thing to make sure of is that you aren't trying to reinvent something that already exists. Electric saws have already ran from tiny underpowered toys to 440V three phase generator saws that have an over thirty inch bar. The narrow focus may expand as the project evolves but starting narrow and expanding is usually far easier than setting out to reinvent the wheel to begin with.

The best hope might be to find other areas of new development that haven't been tied to chainsaws yet. Weight and balance are very critical for chainsaws so that is always an issue. If a lightweight oil injection system could be added to a saw so premixing fuel wasn't required I think it would be very well received. Might have to be a four stroke but if the weight could be kept down propane is interesting. Diesel engines are two stroke to begin with and an issue in the past, availability of highly refined diesel, is no longer an issue. In 1990 we were trying to design a diesel engine to pull a 1/3 to 1/2 cubic inch Freon compressor. We didn't but another company did design a similar engine and model airplane diesel engines were around back then too. Fox had them. The bar and chain hasn't evolved substantially in pretty much forever. Might try to develop ideas in that area. other cutting method besides chain? perhaps a different path for chain to take? A reverse gear on a chainsaw might be an interesting feature for some cuts.

I'm sure you already know but the steps of design involve first brainstorming, almost anything is on the table, then start refining the more promising ideas. One issue with trying to develop new ideas related to chainsaws is that there are already huge R&D budgets at work on saws. Not impossible but tough to find something they haven't already considered that has a practical application. However sometimes an outside source like yourself does bring fresh ideas to the table.

Good luck in your efforts, I'm another that will be waiting to hear the outcome!

Hu

Lanternguy

i got to try the Li-On Battery saw from Oregon recently seems to have lots of feature like auto chain sharpener, battery gauge and very quite, if you could make something like that but lighter, more powerful, longer lasting and charges faster i think it could be something the average home owner could actually buy to replace a standard saw. 

Funny the demo rep said when the big ice storm hits its always ready to go you don't need to store gas anymore, but somebody said how do you charge it if the power is down... he thought for a second and said off a generator and laughed... lol
Echo CS3000, Stihl MS180, Echo 450P, Stihl MS361, Stihl HS46C-E, Stihl Magnum BR600, Echo SRM225, Stihl FS 56, Echo TC-210 Tiller, Stihl BG56 C-E,  Black and Decker Alligator, Poulin Pro Blower

Ward Barnes

Quote from: redfin on November 11, 2013, 03:40:42 PM
The only thing that really comes to mind is a propane injected saw. But then of course you have to deal with the lubrication and the whole turning the liquid into a gas thing.

I'm building a propane turbo injected buggy.  110 octane and never having to worry my fuel will go bad is why I'm building it that way. Well also, it would run upside down if it wasn't for the oiling issue.

As an aside to the propane turbo buggy, have you seen the propane powered outboard engines produced by Lehr?  Screw in a standard size propane bottle and it will take you as far as one gallon of gasoline.  golehr.com.  Can a propane chainsaw be far behind?
7 year old Stihl MS 390.  New Stihl trim saw MS 250.  Kubota BX 2200 tractor.  2005 F150 4X4.
Dull chains cause accidents.  Accidents cause shorter life spans.
You don't sharpen a chain when it gets dull.  You sharpen a chain to keep it from getting dull.

Philbert

Quote from: Lanternguy on November 12, 2013, 05:00:02 PM. . . but somebody said how do you charge it if the power is down. . .

I have an extra battery for mine, and an inverter to charge it from my car.

Philbert

john_bud

I've read where nano-tech created molecular chainsaw that is;

Powered by hydrogen
Stores (folded) in a pocketable form
Weighs just a few oz
Unfolds to have a bar up to 5 ft long
Total power could be hundred hp or more
Millions of molecular engines distributed across the blade
Millions of diamond cutters on atomic bearings that spin at billions of rpms and never wear

Sounds like pure fantasy,  but that is one prediction for common tools made with nanotech in 50 years or less.

Recall it was 50 years from discovering radiation to the first nuke bomb.  50 years from horseless carriages on dirt paths to the high speed interstate freeway system. And 50 years from the first computers able to do hundreds of calculations per second to today where trillions are done per second.

Fyi- there are examples of atomic sized diamond cutters, billion rpm atomic bearings and atomic hydrogen powered engines in existence today...
280 acres of tree farm

John Vander

Tom, welcome to the forum. As far as design goes, you need to be more specific about what area you want to work in. For sure there are some good tech. developments in our days, but some of them take the masculinity out of the game. Our generation is bent on developing stuff that makes things easier and effortless, resulting in lazier and less skilled people. I can't respect an arborist who has a chainsaw that climbs the tree for him and does the job, but a guy who gets up there in the dizzy heights of a huge cedar surely has balls and earns the respect of others. We invent a lot of stuff for comfort, but inventing stuff that's really useful is a different ball game all together. If you invent something that can catch the eye of a pro, then that's good going. If a pro says, "now that I can use."..that's it. The motto today in design is "less skill required". This is sad since the border line between amateur and pro is becoming harder to define. Going out into the woods with a pro will be a great help in seeing what actually happens out there where real time decisions are made. Improvements that save time and money while adding to the safety of the worker etc. is real time stuff. Too much investment is wasted on trying to make "easy to use" stuff that end up on a trash heap 2 years later. You can also consider things that surround the saw. A while ago I designed a leather sleeve that slides over the bar cover. The sleeve has pockets that contain tools and other needed stuff, taking some weight off the belt of the faller. Inventions that reduce fatigue (which is a major cause of working accidents) would make way I'm sure.
Tree and saw accidents nullify years of forestry experience.

shootingarts

Quote from: Tom Leese on November 11, 2013, 06:44:50 AM
Hi this is my first post on this forum. I am a product design student at Staffordshire University (united kingdom) and for my final year project i am looking to design a new chainsaw concept. i would like to ask a couple of questions that would help me with the design process.

What are the needs and requirements that you want out of your chainsaw?

What brand of chainsaw do you use?

Is there anything that need to be changed/improved with current chainsaws?

Thanks

Tom Leese

Tom,

I just had a thought. Some experience in R&D as I think I mentioned earlier and this is an improvement that I think would be very attractive. More importantly I think it would be feasible and marketable.

Please shoot me an e-mail at husa-at-live,dot,com if you are still looking for ideas. Put chainsaw in the title as I generally ignore e-mails I don't recognize.

Hu

HolmenTree

Quote from: Tom Leese on November 11, 2013, 06:44:50 AM
Hi this is my first post on this forum. I am a product design student at Staffordshire University (united kingdom) and for my final year project i am looking to design a new chainsaw concept. i would like to ask a couple of questions that would help me with the design process.

What are the needs and requirements that you want out of your chainsaw?

What brand of chainsaw do you use?

Is there anything that need to be changed/improved with current chainsaws?

Thanks

Tom Leese
I just found this interesting read from Dec. 1979 of another student from the United Kingdom who engineered a chainsaw.
Too bad the OP Tom here only posted once and never answered his own thread he started.
These 2 students from eras 34 years apart had something in common :)


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Philbert

Nice find. Looks like a Homelite?

Would be interesting to know how many of his innovations were truly unique, or how many are commonplace today.

Philbert

ancjr

As civilization has moved further into what was once wilderness, and the concerns of residents with chainsaw use nearby that go along with it: noise, air quality, water/soil quality.

Not to step on anyones toes, and admiting a lot of recent laws in the power equipment industry are wrongheaded (how about those new gas cans?) ... There's plenty of room in making better tools for those interested in good stewardship.

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