General lack of respect for the Dead, in my town.

[Larro Darro]

We have a family graveyard, and have had some trouble with people parking there to drink and smoke. But since I built less than a quarter mile away, they changed their location.

Being from Florida, where all fenced land in posted, it is strange that people can hunt on your land. Here you have to have written permission on your person if you are hunting on private property. And to trespass with a firearm is a felony. We used to have problems with dog hunters, including having a couple of cows shot. But since that has been outlawed, we rarely have hunter problems. But then I never go on most of my land, so there may be folks using it and I just don't know it.

Years ago my wife was friends with a couple that had a group who went to graveyards and recorded the writing on every stone. Then it was posted online. She helped them do several of the local graveyards. When they were doing one big graveyard near Altha, she had borrowed three or four folding chairs, as several of the folks were older. They didn't finish the first day, so she left the chairs. The next morning they were all gone. We had to buy new ones to replace them. Some people.....

Larro

[RCBS]

I would be furious.  I have had some posted signs torn down in the past.  I took a step ladder with me the next time I posted and haven't had any trouble since.  I know you don't have funding, but may i suggest a sign on a post such as a 4x4" up high enough so that it can't be reached/torn down without some effort?

Good luck to you Jim.  Lack of respect indeed.

[Jim_Rogers]

Thanks for your advice.

So far no further vandalism.

And I have considered higher signs but we need to get the message to the "lower class" of people first  :D ;D

Lots of cemeteries around my area have "ground rules" and these rules are posted at the entrance to the cemetery. The one I visited to see what kind of "Plot" sign they had showing the locations of the grave sites, gives out booklets. These booklets have all the rules and regulations of the cemetery.

We don't have any booklets, and further more, we don't even have any "ground rules" to post.

I have drawn up a set and will be pushing the committee to adopt them. But the next scheduled meeting isn't until May.

Jim Rogers

[sandhills]

 I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's sad that a cemetery should have to have "ground rules"?  I hope things get better for you Jim.

[Jim_Rogers]

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's sad that a cemetery should have to have "ground rules"? 

Should I post them for your review and comment?

Jim Rogers

[sandhills]

I hope you didn't take that the wrong way Jim, I meant nothing against you having to do it, just the fact that you should have to do it.

[Jim_Rogers]

No offense taken. I completely understand. I shouldn't have to do it but some people just don't understand and take advantage of other people's land.

Kids these days don't seem to get taught how to respect someone. I don't let my daughter get away with talking back to her mother, at all.

When my step kids lived at home and I was there, they knew what they could say and what they couldn't say to their mother.

Maybe I'm just too old school, but that's the way I was brought up.

Jim Rogers

[Jim_Rogers]

Our letter to the editor came out in one of the newspapers today.

Here is a link to the online version:

http://www.newburyportnews.com/opinion/x1442600297/Cemetery-is-private-property-not-open-to-all

Jim Rogers

[LAZERDAN]

Jim       Please post your rules.  I would like  to see them.  I spend alot of time in a cemetary, I've seen it all and it's to bad a couple of bad apples turned this post kinda sour.  I ve had all the trouble you can imagine, even the dead can cause trouble.  I have a lot of responsible dog walkers, they watch for vandals  , I make it a point to wave and say hi if possible, they don't want any hoodlums making them warry.  I know exactly where your comming from,  and your investing alot of time and personal energy.  we have rules and have not had to enforce them in my 30 years.  Sometimes I feel like throwing the book at them but usually cool off and try to think of what a santuary it is (it may be different for many people) for people,war vets and widows, Moms,Babys that lost thier parents, Husband Wives, Broken hearted,  ones that die shortly after of a broken heart, Moms that loose a child very young, that cannot make a recovery(broken hearted)  They have more on thier mind than my cemetary rules.  Sometimes I cannot look them in the eye or we,ll both be blubbering.  I try and say have a nice day..  Read the stones they all have a story to tell, snap your fingers and life goes by quick.  I have NO dog poop !!  You are right thier is no room for DISRESPECT.  Like I said, "We have rules , just haven"t found a need to enforce them yet.    I love the way your attacking this venture head on, it will be wonderful when your done.  I've been at thoes meetings where nobody shows up but 2 of you, but that shows what your made of.  Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.   Lazerdan

[WmFritz]

Jim, I applaude you for devoting your time for a worthy endeaver. I liked the article. I think it's fitting that there is an advertisement for a tree service on the same page.   :D :D

[WildDog]

I admire anyone that volunteers their time for a community cause andhave have never really thought of the work that goes into looking after smaller cemeteries on a tight budget. At work we occasionally 1080 bait rabbits in the town cemeteries free of charge, the pests love digging around graves.  (1080 poison signs would keep dog walkers away  ;))

Jim as Beenthere mentioned a more professional looking sign would be better. I'd approach the committee for funds to put a quality type "Ghost Buster" sign at the entrance depicting unauthorised activities with the universal cross through them. Your next meeting isn't until May which gives time to get prices, examples etc to present to the committee.

Personally and please take it as no disrespect to your cause or the dead but when I am six foot under I'd be happy for a dog to pay me a visit

[Jim_Rogers]

For review and comment, here are the rules that I am going to suggest to the committee to adopt:

1.   The cemetery is open daily from sun up to sun down, except when conditions within the cemetery become hazardous including ice and snow.
2.   No extra large stretch limousines or buses are allowed because of many narrow driveways.
3.   No Dogs Allowed
4.   No horse back riding is allowed
5.   Persons are not to walk on grass, to trespass upon the lots or ground or commit any nuisance.
6.   Persons are not to pluck or take flowers, either wild or cultivated from the ground or from other person's lots.
7.   The discharge of firearms is strictly forbidden except at military funeral or parades.
8.   No hunting by any means.
9.   No stone rubbing is allowed on any slate or sandstone monuments. Others maybe rubbed only with the approval of the Cemetery Committee.
10.   No bicycle riding is allowed unless the Cemetery Committee has given special permission.
11.   No peddling of flowers or plants or soliciting the sale of any commodity is allowed.
12.   Proprietors and lot owners are to put trash, dead flowers, etc. in receptacles that have been conveniently located throughout the cemetery. They are not to be thrown indiscriminately on the ground or adjacent property.
13.   The use of snowmobiles, 4 wheel drive trucks (unless authorized) or any other RV or recreational vehicle is not allowed.
14.   Skiing, sliding, sledding, tobogganing or picnicking is strictly forbidden.
15.   Vehicles must observe a speed limit of no more than a walk. And must drive only on approved driveways.
16.   No persons except the Proprietors of the lots, with their families, or strangers accompanied by them, shall be admitted into the Cemetery.
17.   All persons are prohibited from climbing over, writing upon, or defacing or injuring any monument, gravestone, rustic seat, or other structure belonging in the Cemetery.

Some of these are in our bylaws that each owner should have gotten when they bought a lot. But I'm not totally sure that they do get them. We may produce a booklet like the other cemetery does.
Most of them I got from the other cemetery's booklet.

I don't know if these are excessive or standard.
We'll have to see how the committee like them.

Jim Rogers

[Magicman]

People doing genealogy work might be encumbered with #16.  Of course, they should only need to get permission which they should already do.

[SPIKER]

Might be issues with 5, 9 and 16 as walking over to grace stone is usually all grass, keeping people from rubbing on the headstones would be difficult to enforce as well and really should cause no harm, no real way to stop someone that is coming in looking for past generations or relatives of different maternal names or even if they no longer live in area.

Imagine going looking for great grandmaw's parents would be 4rd different generation of names from the maternal side.   the paternal side sure with same sir names.

Mark

[coxy]

jim  i think the rules are great   people will under stand and some people wont     you have to start some place   keep up the good work

[Jim_Rogers]

About the rubbing.
I have rubbed a few stone to clean off the names and dates to read and record. I used a brush under the instructions of a monument company owner. No chemicals, no acids, no soaps or bleach, if anything he said to use just plain water.
Some of these stones wobbled as I was rubbing them. They almost fell over, so now I check to see how secure they actually are before I rub off the moss to be able to read and record them.

Others, might not check first and therefore accidently push one over. This could break a sandstone, slate, or marble stone. Not all stones here are granite. Some are even home made cement stones. This is one reason why we wouldn't want to allow rubbing without first inspecting the "target" stone to make sure it's safe to rub. Some old ones do have beautiful carvings.

We have a lot of stones that are down, right now, some maybe able to be repaired and stood up again. Some will never be able to be stood up. We may just record them and leave them down as flush stones. We have considered inspecting the bottom side to see if there is information there that we need to record. But we haven't turned one over yet. This will have to be carefully done, if we attempt it.

The fellow who mows the grass said he tried to stand one up as it had his name one it from some distant relative he could have been named after. And the more he tried the more it broke. He stopped trying and left it flat.

Jim Rogers

[SwampDonkey]

I realize some troubles that can present themselves with cemetery property. So action must be taken to minimize the troubles. One thing that caught my eye was around stone maintenance. I always understood that the family was responsible for stone maintenance, like if it were leaning or broken. Most cemeteries in rural NB have barely enough to keep up the grounds let alone fixing stones. It's great that you can do it, but people come to expect what isn't part of the care taking. And now it's free to them.

[Ianab]

As time goes by you will get more and more graves that are untended. No surviving family, or they have moved away, or they don't care about great-great-granddad...  So some graves are going to look neglected, and that gives the whole cemetery a neglected look, even if 75% of the graves are well tended. So I can see why the caretakers would do basic maintenance on graves that might otherwise be totally neglected.

As for the "rules"?

Seems like a lot of fine print for a sign at a cemetery gate? 

What about?

XXXX Cemetary
Please treat this area with respect
Enquiries, please contact xxx xxxxx

And some Red Circle graphics for
No Dogs, No shooting, No motorbike, 5 mph speed limit etc

I take it you aren't trying to keep legit visitors and respectful visitors out, just the dog poop, grass digging up, graffiti spraying element?

Ian

[Jim_Rogers]

We do expect the owners of the stones to repair them. But as mentioned they maybe gone and we have no way of notifying them that the family stone is down.

We do at times get money from the town to use for veterans. I was hoping that when we have identified all veterans grave sites and stones we can use this money to repair any veteran's stones that are down. That seems like the right thing to do, with the veteran's money.

Yes, only family visitors not neighborhood dog walkers.

Some of them maybe strict, and the main committee may not adopt them. Only time will tell.

Jim Rogers

PS. thanks for all your kind comments and advice.

[js2743]

Check your state laws on if someone can visit. I know in the state of virginia you can not keep people from visiting a grave no matter if they are family or not. Even if its a family one, others have the right to visit if they desire.

[SwampDonkey]

Here in New Brunswick we have the 'Cemetery Companies Act' and it states,

7 (1)Where a cemetery is situated in a municipality or rural community, the municipality or rural community, as the case may be, may make by-laws with respect to the enclosure of cemeteries by walls or fences.
7 (2)Where a cemetery is situated outside a municipality or rural community, the Minister may make regulations respecting the enclosure of cemeteries by walls or fences.

30 (3)If a cemetery company
(a)passes a by-law prohibiting any person except a person authorized by the company, to be in the cemetery during certain hours at night, and
(b)posts a notice of the prohibition at each and every entrance to the cemetery,
any person violating the by-law is guilty of an offence and liable to the same penalty as is provided under subsection (1).

Cemeteries are like companies here, with directors and shareholders. You can enclose the place and post closing hours for night, but otherwise you can't keep anyone out.

Here's the whole deal.

http://www.canlii.org/en/nb/laws/stat/rsnb-1973-c-c-1/latest/rsnb-1973-c-c-1.html

[Axe Handle Hound]

Jim- I am with you 100% in wanted to create an environment of respect and peace for the deceased, but in my experience the banning of a thing almost always invites that very thing to happen. I've seen countless No Hunting signs with bullet holes in them.  Personally, I think signs that encourage people to take ownership and responsibility over a place are more helpful and useful.  Something like, "This is a cemetary where people just like you have buried their family and friends.  The stones you see represent real people who lived life just as you are right now.  Please treat them and these grounds as you would expect others to treat your family's final resting place.  Be respectful and clean up after yourself, your pets and if necessary, others who fail at this simple request.  If you fnd these rules unacceptable please do not visit these grounds." 

Just my thoughts on it and you may have already tried that approach, but I agree with you whole-heartedly that disrespect for the deceased is unacceptable. 

[Larro Darro]

I too think that list of rules would make for a big sign. Something simple with a request for good behavior might work better. And old gravestones can fall over. My cousin broke his leg when he was a kid by climbing on one. He learned not to climb on gravestones though.

Larro

[Jim_Rogers]

Last Sunday we did another walk around recording names and dates off of stones in one of the oldest section of the cemetery. Most likely the last one until the snow is gone.

We found a stone erected by Mrs. Dresser, in honor of her son Sargent John S Ogden who besides being a civil war veteran was killed June 26, 1876 at Little Big Horn with General Custer. He was a member of Company E of the 7th Calvary. He was 27 years and 8 months old.

Being that he was in the 7th Calvary is was a little weird that his grave stone marker was in lot #77.

Part of the reason why we are doing this, recording every stone's information, is so that the local veteran's association can put flags on all the veteran's grave sites.

I said to my other committee member that we have to make sure that they know about this site for next year to make sure he gets a flag on it.

Jim Rogers

[Magicman]

You are taking the correct steps to insure that all veterans are honored.  Good for you.