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General lack of respect for the Dead, in my town.

Started by Jim_Rogers, November 02, 2013, 06:55:17 PM

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Jim_Rogers

This is a bit of a rant, but also to let you know what's going on.

For a while I have been volunteering as a member of the cemetery committee for the cemetery where my father is buried. His parents, my aunts which are both my father's sisters, and most likely more relatives that I don't know about.

My mother was on the committee up until a few years ago, and when she stepped down, she asked me if I'd take her place.

I said sure.

What it means is that I go to one or two meeting, (that last about an hour) once or twice a year and listen to the reports and see what's going on and normally nothing special is going on.

Then the lady, whom I've known since grade school, and she works for the church as the church secretary, came to the meeting, and said that with this interest in things like Ancestry dot com there were a lot of people coming to the church or calling the church to try and find "grandpa or grandma" or great, great, grammy or whomever.
And she had no idea where if even if they were buried in the cemetery right across the street from the church.

So the directors, whom I am one of, decided that they should form a "Records Committee" and get all the records into a computer format so that they can be searched and find "grammy" when someone calls or stops by.

Sounds easy enough.

So I joined that committee and we had about 8 people on it when we started.

At the first meeting we decided to enter all the names into an excel spreadsheet as it was easy to do and we all had that program on our computers. And most everyone knows how to use it. There was basically no cost as this program is normally fairly standard to be in the computer.

The records that the clerk had were all on 3x5 file cards. So we decided that we'd test the format of the excel spreadsheet and then divide up the card and everyone take 100 cards and start entering them into the computer. Then merge the file and have a grand list with everyone's name and dates.

At the second meeting of the records committee when we were going to divide up the cards, myself, the clerk who can barely read and write and who doesn't even own a computer or have email, and one other widow lady showed up. All the other five seemed to be busy and couldn't help.

We got a box of 3x5 file cards from the clerk, and some other things like the plot plan of the cemetery grounds. This plot plan showed the numbers of the grave sites, but it was many years old and not up to date at all.

The lady took the 3x5 cards and being that she's a widow, her husband is buried there, and has a lot of free time on her hands, would enter the info into the spreadsheet.
I volunteered to use my cad program and recreate a new plot plan showing all the grave sites and get it all up to date. And interesting project and for me somewhat fun, as well as a challenge.

After entering all the cards into the spreadsheet and at another meeting, where the clerk, the lady and myself were the only ones present, the clerk informed us that he has some documents known as burial permits for everyone buried there. He told us he had boxes full of them and most likely hundreds and hundreds of them, possibly even thousands.

We were a little shocked that he hadn't mentioned that before. And we requested that he bring them to us so we could enter the information of these documents into the program.
This is the stuff that people want to know when they call the church secretary as well as where grammy is.

The widow lady and I have been working on sorting out the burial permits and getting them entered into the spreadsheet, in a different color font then the 3x5 cards so that we know where the info came from by just looking at the color.

Next, we have names of who bought the grave site, but not always who is buried there. So it was decided that we "walk around" the grave yard and read off the info from the head stones.
This info tells names and dates. We decided to enter this info into the program in the color blue for the stones. So now we have black for the 3x5 cards, red for the permits and now blue for the stones. This system is working good and we have entered lots and lots of info into the spreadsheet. The first box of permits had 460 in it. The second box had 90. And he said he had at least two more briefcases full of them, which we haven't seen yet.

During one of our many "one hour" walk arounds we observed a pedestrian walking his dog in the cemetery. I informed him that "dogs were not allowed" in the cemetery whether or not if he picked up after it or not. This is not a public place for walking a dog.

Our cemetery rules state that unless you own a plot or have a direct relative buried there then you are not allowed in. It is private property. If you are a guest then you have to be accompanied by a direct relative of a person buried there.

I was told by the clerk that he had posted "no dogs allowed" signs before and that they were pulled down in less than a week.

Knowing this I decided to not spend any money on signs, as I wasn't authorized by the committee to spend any money on anything at all.

I printed up some "no dogs allowed" signs and put it in a clear plastic sleeve and stapled it onto a 1x12 and attached the 1x12 to a piece of plastic pipe I had laying around. I found some old metal and pounded that into the ground and bolted the pipe to the metal. I made three of them for the three main entrances to the cemetery. I installed them the other day.

Here is a shot of one of them:



 

I was hoping that these would last a while.

This morning on my way in, I drove by the cemetery like I do everyday, and I noticed this:



 

Someone had between 7pm last night and 7:45am this morning taken a knife and cut the sign out of the backboard.

I have replaced the sign and it is now covered with plexiglas so that they can't just cut it out again.

Last week I wrote a letter to the editor of our local newspaper telling them about our rules about who can enter the cemetery and about our rule of "no dogs allowed".

Now, I'm not a dog hater, I don't own a dog, but I don't hate them. It just that a cemetery is not the place to walk your dog, and let him/her go to the bathroom there whether or not if you pick it up.

I haven't seen my letter to the editor as the paper only comes out once a week, and it due out this coming Thursday. I also send it to another editor for a another paper for the town next over from us, that the cemetery is on the town line with. And they will be publishing it also, but I haven't seen that yet.

In one of my daily "drive bys" I saw our police department car in the very driveway where the sign was vandalized. And I stopped and talked to this officer and told him about our policy of no dogs allowed. I asked him if he could tell anyone he sees walking their dog in our cemetery to not enter. And he said he couldn't do anything until it was posted.

The committee president, a nice little old lady, said to notify the police after I posted it. So I did. I emailed the chief.
And I emailed the chief, again, and told him we already have been vandalized. The signs were there less than two days.
He wants me to file an official report so that he can prepare proper orders for his officers.

I am considering getting a "trailcam" and putting it up in a tree nearby the sign if it happens again.

My rant is that these people in the neighborhood of the cemetery, most I believe don't have relatives there, believe this is public property and they can enter and do whatever they want there. And they have no respect for the dead.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Dave Shepard

Perhaps the police department should be notified. They may be able to tell you the proper way to post the property. Once it's posted, they should be obligated to keep people out, they are trespassing on private property after all.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Chuck White

Lots of disrespect around cemetaries Jim!

Quite a few around here have visiting hours and closed hours posted!   ;)

I do like your sign though, makes a lot of sence too, when someone is walking their dog in the cemetary, and he has to go, guess where he'll cock his leg up!  :o

Most likely, the owner would just stand there and let the dog do his business!  :-\

EDIT: Locally, here a few days before Halloween some vandalism was done to one of the cemetaries in Canton.  Some headstones were turned, some were tipped over and some were broken.  No clues at this time!

I mean C'MON, at least have some respect for the dead!  :'(
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

jamesamd

You'r,a better Man than anyone,KNOWS,Jim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God BLESS Ya.
Love Ya!!!


Jim
All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

thecfarm

Lot of help from the police.  ::)  By the book.  ::) Keep at it Jim. I have a dog. I feel I do a good job where I walk her when I am away from home. I had a male dog and I taught him don't even sniff at a car tire.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jim_Rogers

Dave:
I'll go up to the police office and get the paperwork tomorrow and fill out a report about the vandalism and hopefully it will help.

I was thinking that since it has already been vandalized that I would contact a reporter and have them do a story about "Lack of Respect" and see if she'd meet me at the cemetery and do an interview and photo.

The public needs to be educated about this.

Jim Rogers

PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

cfarm:

I know most dog owners now take care of their dog's stuff.

But the guy who mows the lawns down there says that not all dog owners pick up after them, at our cemetery.

I don't have a dog, my mother wouldn't let us have one when we were kids but I don't hate dogs I just don't want them going in the cemetery out of respect for the dead.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

thecfarm

Jim,I would NEVER walk my dog at a cemetery. I have brought my dog to my parents grave,but he was in my arms. I did not want him doing anything.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

samandothers

You are a good person and doing the right thing.  Too bad people have no respect.

chain

Yep, same thing here. A little widowed lady who lives very near the local cemetery brings her two dogs [small type] over to the corner each day and allows them to pee & doo around the gravestones. She never thinks a thing about it, no one else does much care either. In fact, the rules are fairly lax, the cemetery is beginning to look like a carnival, hardly any rules to limit types of decor around the gravestones.

Appears some are competing to draw attention..it is quite a mess....and the flags...while only one Old Glory should stand over the cemetery, I've had to call attention to the keeper to attend and replace the tattered or wind-strewn banner. I won't tell about the other flags.

Jim_Rogers

One of the tasks assigned to the "records committee" was to identify each veteran's grave so that the local veteran's association can put flags on each one.

Recently we were given a copy of a drawing made in 1940 showing all known veterans at that time. This drawing was created under a WPA project and it showed lots of grave sites that the newer plans did not show. This helped me a lot to find some unknown locations of grave sites. We had the grave site number but not it's location in the grave yard.

As it was done in the late 30's and the page says printed in July of 1940. As of that time we hadn't entered into the second world war. So the list only shows, "Rev" for revolutionary war, "Civil" for the Civil war and "World" which was for world war 1. But at that time there was no world war 2 so it was know as the "world war" and I think it was also called the "World War to end all wars".

Soon we will have a great list to give to the VFW to use to place flags. I don't know how many right now but there will be a lot, if they didn't have the civil war vets listed, because we added a lot of them.

Jim Rogers

PS. signs were all standing this morning, no damage.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

thecfarm

I posted some of my land when I first had the house built here. Just a way to let the hunters know that something is up. I was talking to one of the locals and mentioned that to him. He got all worked up,and said we have been hunting there for years and will keeping doing it.  ::)  I just said go ahead and I'll post all 170 acres and call the game wardens and walked away. Now with that situation I can kinda understand where he was coming from. But still did not agree with his reasoning.  ;D But a cemetery???  ???
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

red oaks lumber

 why do we as a soceity feel it nessasary to post signs every where? i have 300 acres with about 100 acres woods. my back fenceline is 3/4 mile long butting up to county land(all woods) the whole distance. in the 40 yrs we lived here never have we put up signs. with no problems either.
my thinking is people see signs as its personally directed at them. weather its for a cemetary or private drive or just wild property.
as for the dog pooping in the cemetary, if it wasnt "private" i i don't think any of it would be a issue. some people do things just for spite.
good luck
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

beenthere

Seems signs that say "NO .........  without permission" are less offensive, IMO.

i.e. "No hunting without permission" or "No trespassing without permission" are easier to accept than just "NO". 
But the "No dogs" may have been trashed just because all of a sudden they were there when someone walking their dogs found them (short term anger/response).
I suspect they got the message and like it or not, will find another place to walk them as most people don't continue to do what others don't accept.

A neater sign would, IMO, get more respect than the original one posted. It looks a bit temporary and not a very "official" one. Maybe that is in the short range plan. Getting support from the local government about such matters would be beneficial.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WH_Conley

I don't post my property.I just let everybody know it is reciprocity, if I can't hunt on you, you can't hunt on me. I have been here at this location for 16 years. I have 115 acres and can hunt on over 1000. Seldom do I ever see anybody, it is just the thoughts that they are welcome. I understand that the people that pay the property taxes should have the say over their place. A lot of things work differently in different areas.
Bill

Jim_Rogers

We are working as a committee. Therefore no one person can spend any money unless the committee ok the expense.
That means I can't spend any money to "buy" any fancy signs. And why would I want to if they are going to be pulled down within a week like I was told.
These rustic "free" signs didn't cost the committee anything. And it's a good thing as one was destroyed already.
Of course the person who did it was upset. His daily walk got changed. Boo hoo on him.
There are miles and miles of roads in my town and a park right across the street from the cemetery where they can walk their dogs all day long, no restrictions. Go over there and do their business on that lawn, not on someone's grave.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

chain

Quote from: WH_Conley on November 03, 2013, 11:09:39 AM
I don't post my property.I just let everybody know it is reciprocity, if I can't hunt on you, you can't hunt on me. I have been here at this location for 16 years. I have 115 acres and can hunt on over 1000. Seldom do I ever see anybody, it is just the thoughts that they are welcome. I understand that the people that pay the property taxes should have the say over their place. A lot of things work differently in different areas.

I would hate to think what would become of our property if we didn't 'Privatize' it. First time we deer hunted on our property[we're absentee landlords] a couple were camping right in the main trail. The next morning I went in on the South end and had a shot at a doe, but missed. An old fellow came down the trail and tried to run me off, saying this property was posted and belonged to his grandma in California, and that he and his buddies had hunted every year [which I didn't doubt] for twenty years! Fortunately, I had my map with me and showed him our property lines we had just painted the month before. I also told him my Dad and brother were just down the road ....just then he said, "son, it don't matter, you just hunt anywhere you please in here!" :D

And last year, a neighbor cut our fence, cut down several young pine and oak for shooting lanes, made two blinds, put corn-bait an salt in front [all on our property]  with out permission. But I believe in keeping good neighbors, I just let them know that I knew what they were doing. :-\

thecfarm

About me posting my land.I just want people to know there was a house here now.I still have people walk right down the driveway. I have not had trouble behind the house with people shooting towards it. But last year I had someone shoot right at the front of the house during turkey season. Would you like that red oaks lumber? I only posted behind the house,now I posted both sides of the road. It's kinda like locking your doors,it just stops the honest ones.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WH_Conley

I guess we have it pretty good here. The worst trouble is out of town hunters that lease land from a timber company. They don't take the time to find out for sure where their lines are and try to run people off their own property.
Bill

red oaks lumber

if someone shoots right at your house, their not smart enough to understand  a sign anyway. ;) i'm not pointing fingers, so dont take it that way :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jim_Rogers

Today's update:

The Sargent of the police force called me today to take my statement on the vandalism of the sign at the cemetery. So now I don't have to fill out a paper report. And it is on record, including and emailed photo of the damaged sign.

We did another walk around today, and recorded a lot of info off of some headstones.

We actually found a veteran that wasn't on our veteran's list.

That was the good thing about today's visit.

Next year, hopefully, he will get a flag along with all the others.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Draco

Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 02, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.

Jim,
How about?:
"This is private property.  No animals are allowed.  Please respect the departed.  If you and your dog like to spend time here, we have an opening.  Please see the caretaker for details."

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: Draco on November 04, 2013, 04:35:47 PM
Quote from: Jim_Rogers on November 02, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
PS. I was thinking of some catchie phrases like, "how'd you like it if I brought my dog over to your lawn and let him go on that?" "and not pick it up" or "how'd you like me to let my dog go on your grandmother's face......?" That may bring some of this to light.

Jim,
How about?:
"This is private property.  No animals are allowed.  Please respect the departed.  If you and your dog like to spend time here, we have an opening.  Please see the caretaker for details."

I like it. I may use it.
Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Larro Darro

We have a family graveyard, and have had some trouble with people parking there to drink and smoke. But since I built less than a quarter mile away, they changed their location.

Being from Florida, where all fenced land in posted, it is strange that people can hunt on your land. Here you have to have written permission on your person if you are hunting on private property. And to trespass with a firearm is a felony. We used to have problems with dog hunters, including having a couple of cows shot. But since that has been outlawed, we rarely have hunter problems. But then I never go on most of my land, so there may be folks using it and I just don't know it.

Years ago my wife was friends with a couple that had a group who went to graveyards and recorded the writing on every stone. Then it was posted online. She helped them do several of the local graveyards. When they were doing one big graveyard near Altha, she had borrowed three or four folding chairs, as several of the folks were older. They didn't finish the first day, so she left the chairs. The next morning they were all gone. We had to buy new ones to replace them. Some people.....

Larro
Make good money. Five dollars a day.
Made anymore, I might move away.

RCBS

I would be furious.  I have had some posted signs torn down in the past.  I took a step ladder with me the next time I posted and haven't had any trouble since.  I know you don't have funding, but may i suggest a sign on a post such as a 4x4" up high enough so that it can't be reached/torn down without some effort?

Good luck to you Jim.  Lack of respect indeed.
Echo CS-3400, 550xp, Jonsered 2166, L3130 Kubota, '78 JD 300 backhoe, Kubota RTV900, JD2305, lots of sharp stuff and several firearms

Jim_Rogers

Thanks for your advice.

So far no further vandalism.

And I have considered higher signs but we need to get the message to the "lower class" of people first  :D ;D :-X

Lots of cemeteries around my area have "ground rules" and these rules are posted at the entrance to the cemetery. The one I visited to see what kind of "Plot" sign they had showing the locations of the grave sites, gives out booklets. These booklets have all the rules and regulations of the cemetery.

We don't have any booklets, and further more, we don't even have any "ground rules" to post.

I have drawn up a set and will be pushing the committee to adopt them. But the next scheduled meeting isn't until May.

Jim Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

sandhills

 I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's sad that a cemetery should have to have "ground rules"?  I hope things get better for you Jim.

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: sandhills on November 05, 2013, 03:33:39 PM
I hope I'm not the only one who thinks it's sad that a cemetery should have to have "ground rules"? 

Should I post them for your review and comment?

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

sandhills

I hope you didn't take that the wrong way Jim, I meant nothing against you having to do it, just the fact that you should have to do it.

Jim_Rogers

No offense taken. I completely understand. I shouldn't have to do it but some people just don't understand and take advantage of other people's land.

Kids these days don't seem to get taught how to respect someone. I don't let my daughter get away with talking back to her mother, at all.

When my step kids lived at home and I was there, they knew what they could say and what they couldn't say to their mother.

Maybe I'm just too old school, but that's the way I was brought up.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

Our letter to the editor came out in one of the newspapers today.

Here is a link to the online version:

http://www.newburyportnews.com/opinion/x1442600297/Cemetery-is-private-property-not-open-to-all

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

LAZERDAN

Jim       Please post your rules.  I would like  to see them.  I spend alot of time in a cemetary, I've seen it all and it's to bad a couple of bad apples turned this post kinda sour.  I ve had all the trouble you can imagine, even the dead can cause trouble.  I have a lot of responsible dog walkers, they watch for vandals  , I make it a point to wave and say hi if possible, they don't want any hoodlums making them warry.  I know exactly where your comming from,  and your investing alot of time and personal energy.  we have rules and have not had to enforce them in my 30 years.  Sometimes I feel like throwing the book at them but usually cool off and try to think of what a santuary it is (it may be different for many people) for people,war vets and widows, Moms,Babys that lost thier parents, Husband Wives, Broken hearted,  ones that die shortly after of a broken heart, Moms that loose a child very young, that cannot make a recovery(broken hearted)  They have more on thier mind than my cemetary rules.  Sometimes I cannot look them in the eye or we,ll both be blubbering.  I try and say have a nice day..  Read the stones they all have a story to tell, snap your fingers and life goes by quick.  I have NO dog poop !!  You are right thier is no room for DISRESPECT.  Like I said, "We have rules , just haven"t found a need to enforce them yet.    I love the way your attacking this venture head on, it will be wonderful when your done.  I've been at thoes meetings where nobody shows up but 2 of you, but that shows what your made of.  Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.   Lazerdan

WmFritz

Jim, I applaude you for devoting your time for a worthy endeaver. I liked the article. I think it's fitting that there is an advertisement for a tree service on the same page.   :D :D
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

WildDog

I admire anyone that volunteers their time for a community cause andhave have never really thought of the work that goes into looking after smaller cemeteries on a tight budget. At work we occasionally 1080 bait rabbits in the town cemeteries free of charge, the pests love digging around graves.  (1080 poison signs would keep dog walkers away  ;))

Jim as Beenthere mentioned a more professional looking sign would be better. I'd approach the committee for funds to put a quality type "Ghost Buster" sign at the entrance depicting unauthorised activities with the universal cross through them. Your next meeting isn't until May which gives time to get prices, examples etc to present to the committee.

Personally and please take it as no disrespect to your cause or the dead but when I am six foot under I'd be happy for a dog to pay me a visit :)
If you start feeling "Blue" ...breath    JD 5510 86hp 4WD loader Lucas 827, Pair of Husky's 372xp, 261 & Stihl 029

Jim_Rogers

For review and comment, here are the rules that I am going to suggest to the committee to adopt:

1.   The cemetery is open daily from sun up to sun down, except when conditions within the cemetery become hazardous including ice and snow.
2.   No extra large stretch limousines or buses are allowed because of many narrow driveways.
3.   No Dogs Allowed
4.   No horse back riding is allowed
5.   Persons are not to walk on grass, to trespass upon the lots or ground or commit any nuisance.
6.   Persons are not to pluck or take flowers, either wild or cultivated from the ground or from other person's lots.
7.   The discharge of firearms is strictly forbidden except at military funeral or parades.
8.   No hunting by any means.
9.   No stone rubbing is allowed on any slate or sandstone monuments. Others maybe rubbed only with the approval of the Cemetery Committee.
10.   No bicycle riding is allowed unless the Cemetery Committee has given special permission.
11.   No peddling of flowers or plants or soliciting the sale of any commodity is allowed.
12.   Proprietors and lot owners are to put trash, dead flowers, etc. in receptacles that have been conveniently located throughout the cemetery. They are not to be thrown indiscriminately on the ground or adjacent property.
13.   The use of snowmobiles, 4 wheel drive trucks (unless authorized) or any other RV or recreational vehicle is not allowed.
14.   Skiing, sliding, sledding, tobogganing or picnicking is strictly forbidden.
15.   Vehicles must observe a speed limit of no more than a walk. And must drive only on approved driveways.
16.   No persons except the Proprietors of the lots, with their families, or strangers accompanied by them, shall be admitted into the Cemetery.
17.   All persons are prohibited from climbing over, writing upon, or defacing or injuring any monument, gravestone, rustic seat, or other structure belonging in the Cemetery.

Some of these are in our bylaws that each owner should have gotten when they bought a lot. But I'm not totally sure that they do get them. We may produce a booklet like the other cemetery does.
Most of them I got from the other cemetery's booklet.

I don't know if these are excessive or standard.
We'll have to see how the committee like them.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

People doing genealogy work might be encumbered with #16.  Of course, they should only need to get permission which they should already do.
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SPIKER

Might be issues with 5, 9 and 16 as walking over to grace stone is usually all grass, keeping people from rubbing on the headstones would be difficult to enforce as well and really should cause no harm, no real way to stop someone that is coming in looking for past generations or relatives of different maternal names or even if they no longer live in area.

Imagine going looking for great grandmaw's parents would be 4rd different generation of names from the maternal side.   the paternal side sure with same sir names.

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

coxy

jim  i think the rules are great   people will under stand and some people wont     you have to start some place   keep up the good work

Jim_Rogers

About the rubbing.
I have rubbed a few stone to clean off the names and dates to read and record. I used a brush under the instructions of a monument company owner. No chemicals, no acids, no soaps or bleach, if anything he said to use just plain water.
Some of these stones wobbled as I was rubbing them. They almost fell over, so now I check to see how secure they actually are before I rub off the moss to be able to read and record them.

Others, might not check first and therefore accidently push one over. This could break a sandstone, slate, or marble stone. Not all stones here are granite. Some are even home made cement stones. This is one reason why we wouldn't want to allow rubbing without first inspecting the "target" stone to make sure it's safe to rub. Some old ones do have beautiful carvings.

We have a lot of stones that are down, right now, some maybe able to be repaired and stood up again. Some will never be able to be stood up. We may just record them and leave them down as flush stones. We have considered inspecting the bottom side to see if there is information there that we need to record. But we haven't turned one over yet. This will have to be carefully done, if we attempt it.

The fellow who mows the grass said he tried to stand one up as it had his name one it from some distant relative he could have been named after. And the more he tried the more it broke. He stopped trying and left it flat.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

SwampDonkey

I realize some troubles that can present themselves with cemetery property. So action must be taken to minimize the troubles. One thing that caught my eye was around stone maintenance. I always understood that the family was responsible for stone maintenance, like if it were leaning or broken. Most cemeteries in rural NB have barely enough to keep up the grounds let alone fixing stones. It's great that you can do it, but people come to expect what isn't part of the care taking. And now it's free to them.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ianab

As time goes by you will get more and more graves that are untended. No surviving family, or they have moved away, or they don't care about great-great-granddad...  So some graves are going to look neglected, and that gives the whole cemetery a neglected look, even if 75% of the graves are well tended. So I can see why the caretakers would do basic maintenance on graves that might otherwise be totally neglected.

As for the "rules"?

Seems like a lot of fine print for a sign at a cemetery gate? 

What about?

XXXX Cemetary
Please treat this area with respect
Enquiries, please contact xxx xxxxx

And some Red Circle graphics for
No Dogs, No shooting, No motorbike, 5 mph speed limit etc

I take it you aren't trying to keep legit visitors and respectful visitors out, just the dog poop, grass digging up, graffiti spraying element?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Jim_Rogers

We do expect the owners of the stones to repair them. But as mentioned they maybe gone and we have no way of notifying them that the family stone is down.

We do at times get money from the town to use for veterans. I was hoping that when we have identified all veterans grave sites and stones we can use this money to repair any veteran's stones that are down. That seems like the right thing to do, with the veteran's money.

Yes, only family visitors not neighborhood dog walkers.

Some of them maybe strict, and the main committee may not adopt them. Only time will tell.

Jim Rogers

PS. thanks for all your kind comments and advice.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

js2743

Check your state laws on if someone can visit. I know in the state of virginia you can not keep people from visiting a grave no matter if they are family or not. Even if its a family one, others have the right to visit if they desire.

SwampDonkey

Here in New Brunswick we have the 'Cemetery Companies Act' and it states,

7 (1)Where a cemetery is situated in a municipality or rural community, the municipality or rural community, as the case may be, may make by-laws with respect to the enclosure of cemeteries by walls or fences.
7 (2)Where a cemetery is situated outside a municipality or rural community, the Minister may make regulations respecting the enclosure of cemeteries by walls or fences.

30 (3)If a cemetery company
(a)passes a by-law prohibiting any person except a person authorized by the company, to be in the cemetery during certain hours at night, and
(b)posts a notice of the prohibition at each and every entrance to the cemetery,
any person violating the by-law is guilty of an offence and liable to the same penalty as is provided under subsection (1).

Cemeteries are like companies here, with directors and shareholders. You can enclose the place and post closing hours for night, but otherwise you can't keep anyone out.

Here's the whole deal.

http://www.canlii.org/en/nb/laws/stat/rsnb-1973-c-c-1/latest/rsnb-1973-c-c-1.html
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Axe Handle Hound

Jim- I am with you 100% in wanted to create an environment of respect and peace for the deceased, but in my experience the banning of a thing almost always invites that very thing to happen. I've seen countless No Hunting signs with bullet holes in them.  Personally, I think signs that encourage people to take ownership and responsibility over a place are more helpful and useful.  Something like, "This is a cemetary where people just like you have buried their family and friends.  The stones you see represent real people who lived life just as you are right now.  Please treat them and these grounds as you would expect others to treat your family's final resting place.  Be respectful and clean up after yourself, your pets and if necessary, others who fail at this simple request.  If you fnd these rules unacceptable please do not visit these grounds." 

Just my thoughts on it and you may have already tried that approach, but I agree with you whole-heartedly that disrespect for the deceased is unacceptable. 

Larro Darro

I too think that list of rules would make for a big sign. Something simple with a request for good behavior might work better. And old gravestones can fall over. My cousin broke his leg when he was a kid by climbing on one. He learned not to climb on gravestones though.

Larro
Make good money. Five dollars a day.
Made anymore, I might move away.

Jim_Rogers

Last Sunday we did another walk around recording names and dates off of stones in one of the oldest section of the cemetery. Most likely the last one until the snow is gone.

We found a stone erected by Mrs. Dresser, in honor of her son Sargent John S Ogden who besides being a civil war veteran was killed June 26, 1876 at Little Big Horn with General Custer. He was a member of Company E of the 7th Calvary. He was 27 years and 8 months old.

Being that he was in the 7th Calvary is was a little weird that his grave stone marker was in lot #77.

Part of the reason why we are doing this, recording every stone's information, is so that the local veteran's association can put flags on all the veteran's grave sites.

I said to my other committee member that we have to make sure that they know about this site for next year to make sure he gets a flag on it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Magicman

You are taking the correct steps to insure that all veterans are honored.  Good for you. 
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

coxy


thecfarm

Good job Jim. We have a guy that is big on the service guys. He found some graves that needed flags. He is the go to guy if having trouble with anything for the Vets.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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