iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Thinking about buying a portable sawmill

Started by cowboy1, October 30, 2013, 03:21:54 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cowboy1

    I'm new to the forum and sawmills in general. I have an opportunity to buy a nice used Lt40 fully hydraulic. I can purchase this mill at a very good price. I have about 37 acre of land here in VA. About 20+ acre are wooded with some nice oaks. I would log some of those but I'd really need this mill to pay for itself cutting for other people. I've talked to 3 mill owners (hoppiest/part timers). They all tell me this is a good buy. I'm hearing the going rate for milling here is anywhere from $.03 - $.40 per bf. I understand markets are different in different localities. I just want to hear your opinions on this mill paying for itself and the positives and negatives of the business. I'd like to use my logs for lumber for projects on my own proberty. Can I make a go of it cutting for other people and buy logs?

terrifictimbersllc

Very open ended question.  Yes one can pay for a sawmill running it in business, but a sawmill doesn't do this by itself.  Be good if you could provide more details about your own situation, property, other equipment and experience especially in business, how much time you have to mill etc.  Milling for others can bring income without your buying logs. Also there is a lot to read here, good idea to get started on that.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Certainly can make a go of it, if you put out the effort (from what I read of the many FF members here who make a go of it). The mill you are interested in buying won't hold you back or keep you from making a go of it.
Again, basing that on so many posts on this forum.

How's your time that can be devoted to sawing?  Read, among many others, how the Magicman does things as an example. He isn't shy about telling what he does and how he does it. He's a hard worker and also has a hard time keeping up with all the irons he has in the fires at the same time. Yet he takes on more challenges all the time... as many others do here.

Good luck with your decision.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Gasawyer

1st welcome to the forum cowboy1. If you advertise and work at it the mill can pay for its self. My rates are. 25-.40 a bdft. or $100 a hr. . I would go diesel over gas but that's just me( my lt-40 is gas and in a hard day it will burn 20 gal. of gas also cutting 4-5000 bdft).  It took me about 2-3 months to get good enough for hire I had never run a mill before. Its always a good idea to inspect the jobs before you accept them.  There have been some mill site layout sheets posted that might be a good idea to hand out.  And make sure they understand that your fees are for sawing lumber not moving the logs and bucking/limbing them.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

ladylake

Quote from: Gasawyer on October 30, 2013, 04:23:34 PM
1st welcome to the forum cowboy1. If you advertise and work at it the mill can pay for its self. My rates are. 25-.40 a bdft. or $100 a hr. . I would go diesel over gas but that's just me( my lt-40 is gas and in a hard day it will burn 20 gal. of gas also cutting 4-5000 bdft).  It took me about 2-3 months to get good enough for hire I had never run a mill before. Its always a good idea to inspect the jobs before you accept them.  There have been some mill site layout sheets posted that might be a good idea to hand out.  And make sure they understand that your fees are for sawing lumber not moving the logs and bucking/limbing them.

  You have to be pushing the mill hard and running long hours to get 20 gallons through in one day.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

cowboy1

Gasawer where can I find these mill site layout sheet? I already found contracts and tally sheet but havnt seen the layout sheets I keep reading about. Thanks

Chuck White

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

cowboy1

Thanks guys for the hospitality in welcoming me to the forum....

What ideas do you guys have on marketing? Might be a question for a new topic but since gasawer mentioned it I thought I'd ask. Any Ideas on that subject gasawer?

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, cowboy1.  Developing a market for your sawing business generally takes time to get the word out to the public, and not everyone needs sawing done.  Plus most of those that may need sawing done already have a sawyer.

I would set up close to a road for exposure and saw my own logs.  You need to practice and have a use for the lumber. 

I too would be hesitant to use some of the above figures, especially with a startup operation.  20 gallons of fuel, 4-5000 bdft, and $100 per hour are out of my realm of expertise. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

thecfarm

cowboy1,welcome to the froum. I brought a mill,paid almost $7000 for it. I have only made about $500 working for other people. But that is fine with me. I did not buy it to make cash money and sawing for others. I have sawed out 2 buildings and some lumber for other projects. I'm pretty sure I'm past the pay back figure that I paid for the mill. Figure up how much lumber you need for yourself if you was to go out and buy it retail. The cost of the mill will go down than.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

drobertson

As mentioned, a little of an open ended question,  but I can say if you run it like a business, it will make money. How much? depends on you,  how much payback will be needed to satisfy the cost, In addition to any other support equipment you might purchase,  hope it all goes well for you cowboy1,   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

Welcome Cowboy,paying for the mill custom sawing is not hard, what is hard is making a living doing it. If you have a day job and just want to recoup your mill expense that's quite easy if your not in a big rush. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

cowboy1

Thanks bandmiller2.... straight forward answer to a straight forward question. Much appreciated.
I don't know how its open ended guys. Every piece of equipment I buy has to "pay for itself". That's a term we in the south use to say.... if I spend $9000 on this mill is it possible to get $9000 in cash from the work I do with it? That's if I charge say .35 per bf. cutting other peoples logs. I don't wanna figure in the lumber I get from my logs that should be a bonus for my hard work. Thanks though, sorry I wasn't more clear.

Magicman

Quote from: cowboy1 on October 30, 2013, 08:31:18 PMI don't know how its open ended guys. 
It is open ended because you are entering a new market without a market of your own.  Your market will have to be developed depending upon your capability, the need for lumber in your area, and whether that need is already being met.

Just because you have a sawmill and work hard does not in itself guarantee an income.  I have had a couple of years that I struggled to saw $6,000 and then I had to subtract blades, fuel, etc.

What are the other sawyers charging per bf for their sawing?  Some parts of the country will not support .35, some even more.  When you are sawing the customer's logs, you saw what they want which may be framing or flat lumber.  .35 is pushing the limit for framing lumber because the landowner would be better off selling his logs and buying lumber. 

Yes, it is doable and I am just trying to point out some of the many variables that you will encounter.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

cowboy1

Thanks for your help Magicman... you make some good points and give me ideas on marketing. Any other advice is appreciated. I will be deciding soon. Im going to a woodmizer seminar in PA this weekend. Hope to be a learning experience.

cowboy1


Solomon

Quote from: cowboy1 on October 30, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
Thanks David and everyone else too
Hey Cowboy,  where is page county?  I'm in Chesapeake.
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

customsawyer

Welcome to the forum. What other support equipment do you have?
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

cowboy1

Solomon.... page county is in the Shenandoah Valley (the heart of Stonewall's Campeign), between the Massanutten Mountain and the Blueridge Mt. North of Charlottesville and North East of Harrisonburg

cowboy1

Customsawyer, I don't have and support equipment right now. Have my eye on a small dozer and a big dump truck, ford 600. What kind of equipment do I need? If I'm cutting on other peoples property the logs will have to be on a pile at the milling site. I wont be able to haul anything but the mill. Thanks

orion388

Robert

Welcome to the forum.. Told you this was a great place for knowledge!

Best of luck in making your decision. See ya later today

John
LT35HD, Kubota L4330, Stihl 361, 026, Massey Fersuson 55, Ventrac, Grasshopper, Small dumptruck and a huge yearning for knowledge from this forum.

Magicman

When sawing at the customer's site, I have never needed anything but the sawmill.  Farmers always have tractors. 

If the customer brings the logs to you, then you need unloading and handling equipment.  I get by with this.


 


 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Welcome to the forum.
Remember that if you want to make money some of the best support equipment is cheap
A strong back
A willingness to work smart
A couple LogRite cant hooks

Good luck

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

cowboy1

Nice magicman... I will have to work on that later.

Yes John you are right.... great info here. These guys have been helpful. Learning a lot.... Thanks for the tip and the link. Talk to you soon. Maybe in PA tomorrow?

Finn1903

Welcome to the forum!
Buying the mill is the easy part.  Building a side business takes some time. 
I bought my mill with the intentions of doing custom saw jobs to pay for the mill.  After 9 months the mill is paying for itself.

Mobile jobs are the easiest, because you show up, saw and get paid at the end of the day.  The clean up is generally left for the customer.  The types of jobs depend on your area.  My mobile jobs have been urban jobs where someone had a tree taken down and they want something out of the log.  These jobs can get tricky because they typically don't have tractors to move the log.  I have spend 20 - 30 minutes rolling logs.  If you end up doing this, make sure you add to the price log handling.  I like to the 2 to 4 hour jobs that I can do on a Saturday.  Take a look at my facebook page link under my profile on the left for pictures of my urban jobs. 
The other type of mobile jobs are jobs like what MagicMan does.  These jobs would be nice if you have the time and clients to do that work.

If you get your own logs, then What I quickly found out is actual milling is about 50% of the time, the other time is clean up, stacking, sorting.  Log supply is the biggest problem I have.  It takes time to build a relationship with the local loggers.  I have not figured that out yet. 
Tree service logs are ok, but the problem I found is that the trees were being taken down for a reason, and its not because they are straight, clear, high grade logs.  Tree service logs should be free.

Good luck! 
WM LT40HDD47, bunch of saws, tractor, backhoe, and a loving wife.

Finn1903

Quote from: Magicman on October 31, 2013, 09:12:08 AM
When sawing at the customer's site, I have never needed anything but the sawmill.  Farmers always have tractors. 

If the customer brings the logs to you, then you need unloading and handling equipment.  I get by with this.


What size tires are you running on the front?  That looks like a nice setup.  My 4wd tractor tires don't carry that well.
WM LT40HDD47, bunch of saws, tractor, backhoe, and a loving wife.

cowboy1

You guys bring up good points... thanks finn1903 yellowhammer, orion, magicman and everyone. Hope to hear more.

Magicman

Quote from: Finn1903 on October 31, 2013, 10:58:22 AMWhat size tires are you running on the front?
That last picture is a 20' SYP log.


 
I would have to make a trip to see the actual size, but this gives you an idea about the weight carrying capacity.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Solomon

Quote from: cowboy1 on October 31, 2013, 08:03:35 AM
Customsawyer, I don't have and support equipment right now. Have my eye on a small dozer and a big dump truck, ford 600. What kind of equipment do I need? If I'm cutting on other peoples property the logs will have to be on a pile at the milling site. I wont be able to haul anything but the mill. Thanks
I am up that way now and then.  I have friends in Broadway just north of Harrisonburg. 
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

SPIKER

I would add that first go to the other mills and see if they will let you INTERN for a few days at each one to be a off bearer and trainee.   They get some free labor (mostly cost them some time teaching you but most mill owners like the "help" even though it slows them down.)   

I did this with one of our fellow FF members BBTOM let me slow him down a few times ;)
I like the sawing, the sawdust flying and all of it but my back is not up to this type of work more than a few times...

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Gasawyer

Cowboy the only marketing I did to start with is in our market bulletin that is put out by the state ag dept.. Now most of my work is from word of mouth and repeat customers.
Now I would be on Craigslist,sawmilltrader,here on the forum,woodweb,feed stores etc.
I think that it won't be hard to pay for the mill. Your just going to have to get around and get the word out.
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

Thank You Sponsors!