dishonesty

CX3 · October 28, 2013, 09:06:34 PM

Ok I feel like I only get on here when I have a problem so here goes lol

I have a 50mbf job that I haven't been able to get to for awhile. The landowner calls me and says if there's anyway I could to please cut the timber because he's needing some dough. So I hire a guy that I know does a good job to go cut it for so much a thousand.

THE VERY FIRST DAY on the job the neighbor comes over and my logger and the new guy cut a deal to whack 200mbf of good timber. My logger goes back to the mill bragging about the patch of timber he just got. (Everyone there knows the deal he and I made. I basically did him a favor because he's out of work)

Well during his bragging session he tells everyone "don't tell Clancy" (that's me) That didn't work so well for him because my phone blew up immedietly

Needless to say I'm a little upset. I feel like the landowner should have been directed towards me. That could have just as easily been my skidder sitting there drawing attention if I wouldn't have hired him. What's your opinion?

nath78 · October 28, 2013, 09:11:16 PM

Seems like that happens often do some guy a good turn and get the screws in the end that's why I don't use subs no more not much you can do unless he hasn't got a contract signed yet.

Windy_Acres · October 28, 2013, 09:13:52 PM

Isn't this the proverbial, "no good deed goes unpunished" ?

nath78 · October 28, 2013, 09:20:37 PM

Yep like saying good guys finish last

beenthere · October 28, 2013, 10:07:45 PM

CX3
Maybe some others can understand what happened from your explanation. But it's not clear to me (no big deal, but just sayin... ). ;)

Nemologger · October 28, 2013, 10:10:35 PM

That's one of the reasons I always use a contract.

Peev · October 28, 2013, 10:17:05 PM

I wish more of this work were in Southern Colorado, you'd be happy, so would I.

barbender · October 28, 2013, 10:39:54 PM

Well, the fact that he doesn't want you to know about it seems telling.

treeslayer2003 · October 28, 2013, 10:41:03 PM

it has happened to me before, that's why I don't share work with any one now. sorry buddy, but people ain't right.

treeslayer2003 · October 28, 2013, 10:44:38 PM

Quote from: beenthere on October 28, 2013, 10:07:45 PM
CX3
Maybe some others can understand what happened from your explanation. But it's not clear to me (no big deal, but just sayin... ). ;)

he was busy so he subbed the job out to another logger. the other logger was approached by an adjoining owner about logging his land as well. the right thing to do here is direct that landowner to the original logger but instead this dude greedily took over.

beenthere · October 28, 2013, 11:01:27 PM

Thanks, that explanation sunk through the thick skull.... and I can pick it out of the OP too (now).

CCC4 · October 29, 2013, 06:31:38 AM

A good analogy for this situation would be, "don't give yer buddy your girlfriends phone number".

So what's the deal, you already logging somewhere else? My boss draws a contract and puts say $10g's down on it until I can get there to cut it. I have a tract simmering for next Spring already.

CX3 · October 29, 2013, 07:37:40 AM

Thanks for the replies. I understand there is not much I can do about it.

Yes I am logging somewhere else. I am very busy right now it is hard to get to all the jobs and make everyone happy.

justallan1 · October 29, 2013, 08:04:01 AM

I'd say it may be sneaky on your loggers part, or he wouldn't have asked people to keep quiet about it.
I will say that if I'm working in your shop for you and am approached by someone needing some work done I'd send them to you, but if you give me a job that you couldn't get to and I'm approached by someone else, that has had no communication with you in any way, then that's business and I would let you know how things worked out and keep you in mind for when I need a hand or couldn't get to a job myself.
Please keep in mind that I'm not a logger and don't know the ins and outs of the way things are done in a lot of places.

Allan

nmurph · October 29, 2013, 08:53:48 AM

Quote from: CCC4 on October 29, 2013, 06:31:38 AM
A good analogy for this situation would be, "don't give yer buddy your girlfriends phone number".

So what's the deal, you already logging somewhere else? My boss draws a contract and puts say $10g's down on it until I can get there to cut it. I have a tract simmering for next Spring already.

No, it's like you give your GF's your friend's number and she gives it her to hot best friend: I don't see a problem here. The only thing the OP should be upset about would be if the the sub stopped cutting on the OP's timber and jumped ship to the neighbor's timber without finishing up the original job.

nmurph · October 29, 2013, 09:01:59 AM

Quote from: justallan1 on October 29, 2013, 08:04:01 AM
I'd say it may be sneaky on your loggers part, or he wouldn't have asked people to keep quiet about it.
I will say that if I'm working in your shop for you and am approached by someone needing some work done I'd send them to you, but if you give me a job that you couldn't get to and I'm approached by someone else, that has had no communication with you in any way, then that's business and I would let you know how things worked out and keep you in mind for when I need a hand or couldn't get to a job myself.
Please keep in mind that I'm not a logger and don't know the ins and outs of the way things are done in a lot of places.

Allan

Yep, but keeping your business to yourself is good business. The sub-contractor has no obligation to send business to the OP. Looking down the road, it might be wise on his part to make the OP aware and possibly make some offer to split the job. But the OP seems to think he is doing the sub a one-way favor by steering some work his way, while failing to see that the sub is doing him a favor by making a land owner happy by cutting wood he can't get to in a timely manner.

moosehunter · October 29, 2013, 03:38:49 PM

I don't see this as dishonest either, maybe it could/ should have been handled differently but not dishonest. Now if he were your employee,.. that is a different story.

Kemper · October 29, 2013, 10:19:12 PM

Add me to the group that doesn't see this as a big deal. He was doing you a favor by getting wood that you dont have time to do and you're upset he isn't sending you more wood that you don't have time to work. I send jobs to other people all the time, some times they give me a kick back, most times they don't. I'm just happy to help others out.

Quote from: moosehunter on October 29, 2013, 03:38:49 PM
I don't see this as dishonest either, maybe it could/ should have been handled differently but not dishonest. Now if he were your employee,.. that is a different story.

thenorthman · October 30, 2013, 08:32:26 AM

Sounds like business to me. He probably shouldn't have been bragging about it, and maybe should have told you first, but he got the job cause he had boots on the ground. Granted I would be a little peeved too, but I would have to get over it, as long as he's finishing the first job first, and then moving on to the second.

Contract logging and logging private ground is more about word of mouth than anything else, most people have no idea how to contact a logger, or that most of us are loggers they just see some filthy dude that needs to shave driving a filthy truck that needs a new fender, or tailgate... Professional is not the first word that comes to mind... So when Joe neighbor sees Billy the "logger" they think hot *DanG I should sell my timber.

exSW · October 30, 2013, 12:07:36 PM

It's a little crappy but on the list of crappy things that go on in the woods this one is pretty far down that list.

Gary_C · October 30, 2013, 12:28:06 PM

What this is really like is giving a friend the phone number of a girlfriend that you trying to give up and then finding out the friend found a better gal thru the unwanted girlfriend. And you already have too many girlfriends anyway.

So what's the problem? Sounds like more envy than dishonesty.

Ron Scott · October 30, 2013, 12:36:09 PM

It happens to me all the time. ;) Often when I put a logger into a job; he will get additional jobs from the nearby neighbors.

beenthere · October 30, 2013, 01:05:42 PM

I think the OP (Clancy) should be most concerned that the logger he says he hired to do the delayed job for him, is doing a good job and is getting the landowner his money that he said he needs.
The other landowner that contacted his logger is completely different deal and should be of no concern (other than some envy) to the OP.

But a good friendly talk with his logger is due, if not done already so everything is above board.

rfm7fxfox · October 30, 2013, 04:17:24 PM

I'm in agreement with everyone who doesn't see this as a big deal. You subbed out the job and because he was there doing the work an adjacent land owner confronted the logger and asked him to log his land. As long as the original job gets done before he moves on then I dont see it as a problem. You said you're very busy and the guy you hired wasn't working so you helped him out, now he has more work after this job, you should be happy for him. He diddnt steal anything from you, if you were the one logging it you would've been the one the land owner contacted. If you're that busy with other jobs then one job "lost" shouldnt upset you at all. Only thing I see wrong is the hired logger "bragging" other then that be happy you helped someone who wasn't working and be happy that you're so busy that you don't have to worry about your next job. There are much bigger problems to worry about I'm sure!
Stay safe in the woods!

Draco · October 30, 2013, 04:38:47 PM

hon·es·ty
1.
the quality or fact of being honest; uprightness and fairness.
2.
truthfulness, sincerity, or frankness.
3.
freedom from deceit or fraud.

He wasn't really dishonest. He took advantage of a situation. I don't know what the original agreement was, but I'm fairly sure that you would have made a few bucks from the original reference that you gave him. If you had made me the offer and I was put in the same situation, I would have accepted the job and worked out a deal with you that would have been similar to whatever arrangement you made with him. I would not have shared the information with anyone else before we had things settled. Everyone is different and every relationship is different.

If it really gets to you, I'd ask to have a talk with him. You might want to break any future ties with him, or he may be a good friend who thought he was doing no wrong. If there is bad blood now, just break things off and call it a lesson learned. Tell him that he won't be getting another job from you in the future. If not, he may just not see it the same way that you do. He may be willing to give you a cut for the reference that got him the job, or need some help if you have time.

I try not to burn bridges, but if he doesn't believe in returning favors, I wouldn't hand out any more of them.