backing band up in cut

coastlogger · October 26, 2013, 12:19:43 AM

Finally got brave enough to try backing the band thru the just completed cut,without removing board. Then I start another cut and remove previous board while its cutting.Saves a bit of time when youre working alone it seems(thats me always).I remember some discussion on this a few years ago. Do any of you guys do this and how are you doing it. Stop band?(I did)Leave 2 or more boards above the cut being backed thru?.(I so far have only left one 3/4 board on top of band. Havent knocked a band off so far.
clgr

5quarter · October 26, 2013, 12:54:32 AM

I think Cedarman cuts this way. I have tried it a few times with mixed results. I pull my boards at the end of a cut but do not fully exit the log. I gig back without raising head and drop down for the next cut.

kelLOGg · October 26, 2013, 06:03:16 AM

I fully exit, raise over the top, back up, drop to the next cut. I haven't tried it otherwise but I have knocked the band off accidentally. I run the least tension I can get by with to preserve band life so I'm reluctant to put 'backforce' on the band. It does take more time but I have electric raise and gravity descent so it is not more effort on my mill.
Bob

bandmiller2 · October 26, 2013, 07:32:36 AM

It's doable but not good form,you introduce a lot of extra wear on the band and theirs the constant danger of pulling the band off the wheels.s if I hit a nub with the sawhead I'll back up when I do so I stop the band wedge up the board and back just enough to clear the snag.But as with all things milling it up to you,if you want to recede in the old cut have at it. Frank C.

ladylake · October 26, 2013, 07:35:41 AM

Seems like backing up in the cut would take a long time even if the blade didn't come off. Steve

kelLOGg · October 26, 2013, 07:59:33 AM

Quote from: bandmiller2 on October 26, 2013, 07:32:36 AM
you introduce a lot of extra wear on the band

Not to change the OP's topic but on the subject of band wear, I no longer skim to top of a cant (to remove paint, e.g.) because cutting with only the bottom teeth puts extra wear on them changing the set. Dragging back thru the cut wears evenly but nonetheless it is undue wear.
Bob

Cedarman · October 26, 2013, 08:32:02 AM

For me I saw full speed to about 6" from end of cant or log. At the proper moment learned from experience I put the mill in stop. The mill coasts to the end of the cant. As the blade is just about through, 1/2" or so, learned from experience I disengage the blade but still finish the cut. I may push the blade disengage handle a little forward for more stopping power on the blade. I stop with the blade still in the cut, but with the board completely cut off. As soon as the blade is stopped, I put it in reverse, but ready to stop if blade snags a knot. With cedar the sawdust is fairly dry and acts like small ball bearings. When the blade is about 2/3 way back there is a tendency to pull the top board with it. If it does, I am usually close enough to the end to simply lift the board a bit and push the board back onto the top of the cant. As soon as the blade exits, I lower to a a bit below the desired cut and raise a bit to get ready for next cut. I will do this for up to 4 or 5 boards. I like to do this because the weight of the boards helps keep the cant from springing resulting in thick and thin boards.
I do this without thinking as it is like driving a car.
The only time a blade will come off is if it hits a piece of wood sticking up and catches the blade. If I see it starting to catch, I usually can get it shut down in time. Maybe once in several thousand cuts will I have a problem. If I get a chance, I will video and post.

Chuck White · October 26, 2013, 08:40:00 AM

If you're backing up in the cut you just made, you will eventually pull the blade of the wheels.

When the blade comes off the wheels, you can ruin the blade and also take out the blade belts (if you run on belts). This could put you out of business if you don't have spares! :-\

Wood-Mizer recommends disengage the blade before gigging back for another cut. :P

I always disengage when I exit the cut!

WH_Conley · October 26, 2013, 08:52:29 AM

Cedarman's narrative is exactly how I do it, except I don't leave that many boards,I saw mostly hardwood.

Chuck, the blade is always at a stop when you do this, if you try backing out of a cut with a running blade it is almost a guarantee of pulling off the band.

Chuck White · October 26, 2013, 03:58:25 PM

Quote from: WH_Conley on October 26, 2013, 08:52:29 AM
Cedarman's narrative is exactly how I do it, except I don't leave that many boards,I saw mostly hardwood.

Chuck, the blade is always at a stop when you do this, if you try backing out of a cut with a running blade it is almost a guarantee of pulling off the band.

Yup, guaranteed!

Jim_Rogers · October 26, 2013, 04:30:08 PM

Wow, I never ever heard of doing this.

I always exit lift and then back up.

The guy who showed me the first WM I ever saw would not lift up, he'd slide the board off and then back up. If his blade was a bit dull it would be lower then the cant and it would catch and make a loud snap as it twisted over the cant.

I told him he was crazy to do that, but he figured the blade was cleaning sawdust off his cant so he could see the grain and decide if he was going to make another cut or roll it (while sawing oak).

I have, when in production mode, exit the log, lift up under power and while backing up, power down. With one hand on the reverse switch the other hand can lower the engine and power down. It only saves a second or two but it seems faster to do this.

Then I drop to the new cut and carry the board off while it is sawing. either sliding off the hitch end of the cant or taking off the sawdust side.

Jim Rogers

coastlogger · October 26, 2013, 04:33:24 PM

Thanks for the advice. I will play with this a bit and see if any negative/ positives show up for me.

Delawhere Jack · October 26, 2013, 05:42:06 PM

I can't imagine doing this in hardwood without binding up the kerf with sawdust.

Chuck White · October 26, 2013, 06:40:34 PM

I always bump up on the up/dn lever as soon as I exit the end of the log/cant and power down, and slide the slab or board off the top and over onto the loading arms

That bump up raises the sawhead ¼ -½ inch.

coastlogger · October 26, 2013, 07:43:31 PM

The first time I read of this concept I thought I was seeing things...nah thatd never work. Well after at least 4 yrs of procrastinating I did try it and it does work. Not saying its a great idea all of the time, or for everyone,but,at least on light boards, it does work.For me cutting siding, it saves quite a bit of time. I can remove the last board while the next one is being cut;no up and over or alternatively,stopping production for a few seconds to remove board. A four poster mill doesnt lend itself to flipping the board onto the loading arms as the posts of the sawhead are in the way.Of course I dont have any loading arms either.
Did about 40 :3/4 x 10 siding boards that way the other day,with a blade I knew would run out of life soon. Nary a problem. Today I fired up the mill to make some 2x5's out of2x6's and the band broke in the first minute.Was this connected to the new procedure? Dont think so but?

drobertson · October 26, 2013, 07:48:16 PM

not sure of the advantage, you have to stop the blade, then return, if the plan is to cut again, why not raise and go for it, we are talking milli seconds, david

Cedarman · October 26, 2013, 07:53:42 PM

Another advantage is that you don't have to remember where the last cut was on the scale.

drobertson · October 26, 2013, 08:05:07 PM

If a manual mode is in effect, well then if it works then heck yea, with accuset, not an issue. dragging the blade is kinda counter to my way of thinking, just me, I have always said, "what ever works, go for it"
david

isawlogs · October 26, 2013, 08:31:11 PM

I have had my mill since the summer of '93, I have always stopped the blade at the end of the log with out exiting , backed up, lowered the head, engaged the blade and sawed the next board .. I have yet to have a blade jump off the band wheels because of backing up, What you all the wanting to try this, you must understand one little detail, Woodmizer mills have a blade brake, that stops the blade when disengaging it, the fact that the blade is not turning when we back up is why it does not jump off.
Any of you that have no way of stopping the blade in its track, ( Many, many mills do not have a band brake) I would not recomend trying to back up in the saw kerf, you will have a blade jump off and more then likely damage it.

Solomon · October 26, 2013, 09:30:47 PM

Quote from: isawlogs on October 26, 2013, 08:31:11 PM
I have had my mill since the summer of '93, I have always stopped the blade at the end of the log with out exiting , backed up, lowered the head, engaged the blade and sawed the next board .. I have yet to have a blade jump off the band wheels because of backing up, What you all the wanting to try this, you must understand one little detail, Woodmizer mills have a blade brake, that stops the blade when disengaging it, the fact that the blade is not turning when we back up is why it does not jump off.
Any of you that have no way of stopping the blade in its track, ( Many, many mills do not have a band brake) I would not recomend trying to back up in the saw kerf, you will have a blade jump off and more then likely damage it.

That's the ticket! You just turned the light on for me. I have an LM4 with no way to stop the blade, it takes several minutes for it to come to a complete stop. The only time I try to back out of a cut is if the cant bows upward like a cat arching its back and pinches the blade. This will stop the blade and band wheels and spin the clutch. I am always ready for this and throttle down promptly. I then either use a Stihl Chain Saw wedge or one I made from wood , wedge the half cut board up as high as I can and back out. Works most of the time.
If its bowed really bad I just take a chain saw and cut the board off at the blade, turn the cant 90 degrees and go back to sawing.
Chuck, why do you throttle down before giging back for the next cut? :-\

stavebuyer · October 27, 2013, 05:30:58 AM

I could see where it makes sense if you don't have setworks. We raise up and gig back on the LT70. The blade doesn't get disengaged until the final cut is finished and the head never stops moving.

BBTom · October 27, 2013, 07:09:53 AM

A good laugh on myself this morning while reading this thread. I could not imagine how anyone would be able to even see if the band was partway out of the cut. But then remembered that most guys walk with the head.

I have boatloads of respect for Cedarman, but I don't think I will try his procedure with my remote console. My eyes are not that good. :D :D :D

Solomon · October 27, 2013, 07:53:01 AM

Quote from: BBTom on October 27, 2013, 07:09:53 AM
A good laugh on myself this morning while reading this thread. I could not imagine how anyone would be able to even see if the band was partway out of the cut. But then remembered that most guys walk with the head.

I have boatloads of respect for Cedarman, but I don't think I will try his procedure with my remote console. My eyes are not that good. :D :D :D

That's another good point. My command cosole is staionary I can stand or pull up a stool and sit under an umbrella If the sun is beating on me. Cooler full of bottled soft drinks in the summer, A thermos of coffee or hot Cider in the cooler months.
I can now see advantages to both stationary and moving command stations. I'm seeing a lot of things that have not previously occured to me in the past. And I have Boat Loads of respect for all of you good folks.
I'm learning a lot even when I haven't chimed in on a thread.
Thanks all for the great hospitality!

Chuck White · October 27, 2013, 08:14:47 AM

Quote from: Solomon on October 26, 2013, 09:30:47 PM

That's the ticket! You just turned the light on for me. I have an LM4 with no way to stop the blade, it takes several minutes for it to come to a complete stop. The only time I try to back out of a cut is if the cant bows upward like a cat arching its back and pinches the blade. This will stop the blade and band wheels and spin the clutch. I am always ready for this and throttle down promptly. I then either use a Stihl Chain Saw wedge or one I made from wood , wedge the half cut board up as high as I can and back out. Works most of the time.
If its bowed really bad I just take a chain saw and cut the board off at the blade, turn the cant 90 degrees and go back to sawing.
Chuck, why do you throttle down before giging back for the next cut? :-\

Mostly because that's what it says to do in the Wood-Mizer Operators Manual.

I started out milling by helping my FIL on his '92 Wood-Mizer and he almost never stopped the blade/powered down until the log was done!

Well, a few times he would snag a piece of bark that was sticking up "just enough" to catch the blade and when the blade comes off like that, at the very least it will need to be resharpened, sometimes there's no saving it!

Magicman · October 27, 2013, 09:07:22 AM

I do not see a "Right" or "Wrong". We each develop our own sawing techniques and what is comfortable to one may be cumbersome to another.

Personally, I am with Chuck because I read the operator's manual and that is what WM suggested. I disengage the clutch as soon as the blade exits the log end, raise the head, gig back, hit the down lever, power up, and enter the log.

The old Setworks does make a difference and I suspect that the new Auto Clutch will change my rhythm.