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MS 250 melting away....

Started by bmoon1492, October 23, 2013, 10:14:08 PM

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bmoon1492

Hey all,
I hate when I have to spend good money after bad...  about a year ago i was on a bit of a price point fix and did zero research beyond taking the advice of a salesman.  My needs did change and i can't blame the salesman because i told him I would be cutting maybe two cords of wood per year and the occasional fallen tree. It would have been nice to hear, it's plastic and more or less a throw away. Anyway, I've used the MS250 to clear about 15 24" trees and I learned that the bar is secured to the plastic case. I've researched the web and have not read a lot about this problem so, I'm assuming folks who buy this saw cut for reasonably short durations.  To be fair, I have always been tough on tools which is why I typically buy Pro versions and I was hammering the MS250 using it sideways cutting 24" stumps to the ground. i think it slowed the oil flow to the chain and I did not realize it until...  the chain got really loose...

Anyway, two questions... is there any resale on a mechanically sound MS250 with slightly melted case?  Is the MS261 a good replacement?  I need to get away from plastic where it counts and need a saw that can handle reasonable abuse. 

JohnG28

So are you saying that you can't remove the clutch cover and bar? It's melted together with the case? If so I think you may have done some real damage. Do you sharpen the chain ever? Stumping 24" trees with a 250, or any saw, with a dull chain is not going to do anything good. Little more info would help.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

joe_indi

I agree with JohnG28.
Over here the MS250 is used as a poor man's MS260.
It is used sunrise to sunset for cutting hardwood with, sometimes, even an 18" bar.
But, as JohnG28 said, never with a dull chain.
I admit the engine pan holding screws become loose. But that happens only under extensive use.
They are easily tightened.
This saw can run 1.1mm and 1.3mm Low Profile chains, the new Stihl Picco Chisel chain and .325 semi chisel and full chisel chains. 6teeth and 7 teeth spur sprockets and rim sprocket kits are available to suit different applications.

Ianab

Quotei think it slowed the oil flow to the chain and I did not realize it until...  the chain got really loose...

I'm afraid that even a pro saw will curl up and die in that situation as well. It's possible that dirt and sawdust  has plugged up the oil hole in the bar, bar runs out of lube, gets really hot, chain stretches and all sorts of bad things happen.

It's not that a MS250 wont run all day, or cut 24" dia trees. It will, as long as it's not abused. It just wont do this all day, every day, for a couple of years like a pro saw should. But if you do the same thing with a "pro" saw, you will cook it as well. Clutch, oil pump, crank seals can all be cooked no matter how good the saw is.

The MS260 is a good saw, but in the same situation it would probably die too, and you will be out even more $$.  :(
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bmoon1492

Thanks. No, the mechanics are fine. The bar / clutch got hot and started to soften the plastic where the bar is connected to the case.. One of the mounts pulled right out when I was removing the bar. I've used the saw since and it works fine. The engine, etc. is tough but I'm not a big fan of the plastic case and want to get into a saw that uses metal where I think it should have metal; engine mounts and bar mount, etc.  It got lightly abused but The 250 is not for me, it's not tough enough and does not appear to be easily repairable.  It's sort of a high end big box store model. I'm just wondering what I can do with it to recoup a few bucks and move on. I also want to be sure i get a new saw with a metal case.

bmoon1492

When I say that the bolt pulled out, I mean it threaded off with the nut that holds the bar on. It has course threads and they are fine but you can see that it slightly melted the plastic.

beenthere

Search here as that problem has come up before with some repair methods that you might be interested in how they were done.

Main thing, IIRC, that the bar nuts cannot be tightened more than just snug. It was a lesson for me, and I don't tighten the bar nuts down beyond snug now.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ianab

If you wanted to recoup some $$ on the saw, and are mechanically inclined, then buy a dead (but un-melted) one. Maybe for $50? Doesn't matter if it's seized, no compression, no spark etc. Then strip them both down and make one good saw. Then you can either sell it as a good running saw (with a clear conscience), or keep it as a backup saw. At some point you are going to get your saw pinched in a cut, and having a cheap backup saw on hand to cut yourself out of a bind will save your bacon.  ;)
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

stumpjumper83

Humm, I didn't know the 250's had that problem.  There is one in the back of my truck right now, its 6 to 8 years old, and its not babied at all.  Yesterday it was the buck saw for the processor.  The wood was really crooked, long, and wasn't limbed right so to get it to feed they needed cut into 12' stock. 

I use mine in situations where I want to cut some decent sized stuff and don't want to drag the 460 around. With the 18" bar I can cut a pretty fair chunk, and I've even cut pine in the mid 20's with it.  I liked it for sticking behind the dozer seat and taking to the woods cause a tank of gas lasted so much longer than a tank in the 460, and the bar fit better behind the seat.

But stumping... that's the work of the big saws, and dull chains are good for no one,  If you have to force the saw, its time to file, and even more so with the little guys.

ladylake


Running a saw to where the bar melts the plastic is way beyond abuse, why do you abuse your tools as that costs lots of money.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

AdkStihl

Stumping starts at 70cc....just sayin
J.Miller Photography

john_bud

Quote from: AdkStihl on October 24, 2013, 08:53:10 AM
Stumping starts at 70cc....just sayin

Ideally,  possibly. Probably is smart in fact.  But the OP did state he had a price point issue when the saw was purchased.    I totally understand how the right saw for the job turns out to be the one you own!  But a file in the back pocket  keeping that chain sharp becomes VERY important!
280 acres of tree farm

bmoon1492

Quote from: stumpjumper83 on October 24, 2013, 05:44:55 AM
Humm, I didn't know the 250's had that problem.  There is one in the back of my truck right now, its 6 to 8 years old, and its not babied at all.  Yesterday it was the buck saw for the processor.  The wood was really crooked, long, and wasn't limbed right so to get it to feed they needed cut into 12' stock. 

I use mine in situations where I want to cut some decent sized stuff and don't want to drag the 460 around. With the 18" bar I can cut a pretty fair chunk, and I've even cut pine in the mid 20's with it.  I liked it for sticking behind the dozer seat and taking to the woods cause a tank of gas lasted so much longer than a tank in the 460, and the bar fit better behind the seat.

But stumping... that's the work of the big saws, and dull chains are good for no one,  If you have to force the saw, its time to file, and even more so with the little guys.


I'm going to assume that a 6 - 8 year old 250 is probably not the same 250 as my 12 month old saw.  But yes, dull chain does no one any good especially the saw.  I just needed to cut that extra 2" inches to finish up for the day and was *pithed to learn that everything is plastic and wished i just bought the 261 out of the gate.

bmoon1492

Quote from: john_bud on October 24, 2013, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: AdkStihl on October 24, 2013, 08:53:10 AM
Stumping starts at 70cc....just sayin

Ideally,  possibly. Probably is smart in fact.  But the OP did state he had a price point issue when the saw was purchased.    I totally understand how the right saw for the job turns out to be the one you own!  But a file in the back pocket  keeping that chain sharp becomes VERY important!

Yeah, typically the tools I own are the ones that are right for the job.  i knew it was going to be tough on me and the saw but you're right i should have stopped to sharpen.  That's the problem.  i just felt like a better saw prob. would not started to soften the case because it's prob. going to metal. 

bmoon1492

Quote from: Ianab on October 24, 2013, 01:33:49 AM
If you wanted to recoup some $$ on the saw, and are mechanically inclined, then buy a dead (but un-melted) one. Maybe for $50? Doesn't matter if it's seized, no compression, no spark etc. Then strip them both down and make one good saw. Then you can either sell it as a good running saw (with a clear conscience), or keep it as a backup saw. At some point you are going to get your saw pinched in a cut, and having a cheap backup saw on hand to cut yourself out of a bind will save your bacon.  ;)


You're right regarding both points. The saw is totally fine, not so fine that i would feel comfortable selling with out disclosing.  It does make a fantastic back up saw. 

bmoon1492

Quote from: beenthere on October 24, 2013, 01:26:10 AM
Search here as that problem has come up before with some repair methods that you might be interested in how they were done.

Main thing, IIRC, that the bar nuts cannot be tightened more than just snug. It was a lesson for me, and I don't tighten the bar nuts down beyond snug now.

Thanks.  I prob. did over tighten the bar nuts, metal expanded and....i'll search for a repair methods.

bmoon1492

Quote from: ladylake on October 24, 2013, 07:27:41 AM

Running a saw to where the bar melts the plastic is way beyond abuse, why do you abuse your tools as that costs lots of money.  Steve

You would be surprised after running the saw for 2 hours non-stop the plastic gets warm.  Add a few mins. on the last stump of the day with a dull chain it's not as much abuse as you might think.  Did I know the saw was pushing dust, yes.  Did i try to strong arm the last 2" on the stump, yes.  Did i assume the stihl could handle it, yes. Did i know the entire saw was attached to plastic, no.

beenthere

Me thinks your mind is set on a plastic problem, and I'm not convinced.   :snowball:
Nevertheless, you need a fix and wish you well with it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

AdkStihl

Quote from: beenthere on October 24, 2013, 01:25:43 PM
Me thinks your mind is set on a plastic problem, and I'm not convinced.   :snowball:

+1
J.Miller Photography

JohnG28

I agree with the above also. The clutch heating up everything under the clutch cover will soften plastic under extreme use like you describe. And trying to pull off an over tightened bar nut after is probably why this happened. And this saw would likely give many years of good service if used within its limits. My uncle beats on his stuff, runs dull chains too long.  Few months ago I did a few big oaks with him. His MS660 wouldn't even cut 22-24" oak to make the felling cuts it was so dull, and its 91cc pro saw. Used my 460 and 361 to drop top and buck to firewood length. 460 on some bigger trees over 24" mostly. Took 20 min to get an edge back on his 660s 24" bar to get the stumps low because even the 460 didn't love the task. Point being here that a $1000 pro saw will likely still give poor performance also if not well cared for. And to the plastic bar stud coming loose, check out this thread. https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=34
I would think maybe the epoxy idea would be a good shot at getting it back together.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

AKDoug

If I had a dollar for every customer that comes to me thinking that their chains is getting loose because the bar nuts aren't tight enough, I'd be a rich man. Chains get loose because they are wearing out. Too dull = too hot. Too hot= excessive wear. Excessive wear on the links results in a loose chain. 

As for the 250. I sell piles of them. Used in their proper use, bucking firewood, they will last many many years without an issue. I have one in my shop right now that was one of the original 025's (still a plastic case) that finally gave up the ghost after bucking 180 cords of wood. Too bad the owner's son straight gassed it, or it might still be going. He was OCD about keeping a sharp chain on it, and how long that saw lasted is a testament to how important a sharp chain is to saw life.

sharkey

Sorry to hear of your problems.  There are several good epoxies available.  Find out what kind of plastic the case is made of by calling Stihl.  Then call Loctite or Devcon and ask them which product would work best on that type of plastic repair. 


sablatnic

Stihl is making some oversize bolts for that saw. The parts number should be 1123 664 2405.

jpdocdave

I'll give ya $50 for it  8)

I love my ms250, and I know its an entry level Stihl, and its served me wonderfully. 

I'm no expert, but don't many saws, even pro saws, have plastic in these areas, or other areas at least?  Mainly a weight thing? I'm not sure the plastic is the problem.

If you want an indestructible saw pick up an old homelite xl, swing that thing around for a few hours and then see how you like the plastic.  And that saw was "extra light"
Stihl MS250
Poulan Pro 505
Poulan Pro 295
Poulan Pro 190 Top Handle
Homelite XL

jpdocdave

Stihl MS250
Poulan Pro 505
Poulan Pro 295
Poulan Pro 190 Top Handle
Homelite XL

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