sawmill related microcontroller applications.

[hackberry jake]

I have been answering quiestions that Erich Doebler has been emailing me about implimenting arduino setworks onto his handset circular mill. This has got me to thinking about other uses for microcontrollers around a sawmill.
You could mount a magnet on one of your bandwheels or even the shaft that holds the band wheel and have a hall sensor measure how many times it passes in a certain amount of time. This could then be displayed in band speed via an lcd display or even an analog sensor with a needle pointing at different speeds. You would know exactly how fast the band is travelling while you are cutting.
If you had electric feed you could the program it to slow the feed when the band speed slowed down.

You could also make an arduino controlled sharpener. The big band mills use variable tooth spacing to gain production. The hobby guy cant sharpen variable spaced teeth... yet. But with a microcontroller controlling when the sharpening head raises and lowers, this would be possible.

Maybe an edger with one fixed blade and the other controlled with a microcontroller running a stepper motor. It would be able to edge preset widths with just a couple button pushs.

I know we have been getting along just fine without any of these things, but I'm sure that what people said about cars too.

Anything else you guys can think of that would benefit from precise positioning or measuring?

[uler3161]

I've had a few ideas myself. Not sure if/when I'll get to them:

1. Auto-leveling feature. Would require some kind of electric or hydraulic operated jacks, and a tilt sensor. Arduino would raise/lower until the sawmill was perfectly level.

2. As you mentioned about the electric feed, I had the same idea, although I thought about putting the sensor on the engine pulley.

3. Automatic cant cutting. Once you get your log squared, be able to set the setworks to cut certain thickness boards. It would start into the cut slowly, then speed up. When it got to the end, raise the  head to where it would clear the board that was just cut, return to other end of the mill and being next cut. Could have a sensor to detect how far to raise the head at the end of the cut (in case you pull boards off while it's cutting). Then you can be stacking boards while the cant gets completely cut.

4. An extension of #3 is a completely automated setworks with log scanner. I've been thinking about how well a laser scanner would work. Haven't ordered all the parts yet.

5. Since everyone ends up cutting into their mill at some point or the other, maybe sensors on the supports and clamp that can be compared with blade height and give you a warning light if you're too low.

[hackberry jake]

Uler, I am putting you into my "wish you were my neighbor" list along with postonlt40, wdh, magicman, pineywoods, steamsawyer, and a few others that arent coming to mind right now.

[uler3161]

Hehe, thanks. My name is Dan by the way. Been a lurker on here for a long time, but once I saw your Arduino postings I had to join in. Was hoping to have finished my setworks first though. Once I get back to Idaho I'm going to start working on it again.

[WoodenHead]

You guys have been doing a great job with the setworks I have to say.  Despite that I'll probably still splurge and buy Accuset some day.   

I am interested though in implementing something for the edger.  I have no time right now, but maybe this winter.  My flitches vary widely in size.  It would be nice to have something to quickly and accurately change from one width to another.

[Den-Den]

I am impressed with this thread and will be following it.
I love DIY solutions but would lean toward a commercial PLC and operator interface instead of starting with a bare microprocessor.  The software would be much easier and repair parts more available.  My experience is with Rockwell and GE equipment but would consider something like these if it was my money:
*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_%28Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular%29/DirectLogic_05_%28Micro_Brick_PLC%29/PLC_Units/D0-05DD

*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3MLW

[NCDiesel]

This thread helps me realize that everyone comes to this profession/hobby/obsession with different goals.  I am a software engineer.   I have always farmed/wood-worked/sawed as an escape from that.   

The idea of putting PLCs on my saw is akin to running out of beer at a party.  Technically the party does not have to be over but lets be honest - it really is  (-:

I would agree to go with pre-fab PLCs.   If for no other reason than weatherizing and interface.  Weatherizing your own units can be a bugger and having a pre-fab interface is better than bungee cording a laptop to the saw so that you can adjust an operating parameter on the fly  ;D

Good luck!

[uler3161]

I am impressed with this thread and will be following it.
I love DIY solutions but would lean toward a commercial PLC and operator interface instead of starting with a bare microprocessor.  The software would be much easier and repair parts more available.  My experience is with Rockwell and GE equipment but would consider something like these if it was my money:
*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_%28Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular%29/DirectLogic_05_%28Micro_Brick_PLC%29/PLC_Units/D0-05DD

*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3MLW

I honestly don't know that much about microcontrollers, but Arduinos seem to be all the rage and are really affordable. Though I've kind of worried about whether they will hold up to the abuse of being on a sawmill.

Arduino software seems pretty simple to me and parts are easy to find. Are there any other reasons for going with the commercial PLC? I was also curious what makes the Arduino a "bare" microprocessor versus the commercial PLC.

[uler3161]

This thread helps me realize that everyone comes to this profession/hobby/obsession with different goals.  I am a software engineer.   I have always farmed/wood-worked/sawed as an escape from that.   

The idea of putting PLCs on my saw is akin to running out of beer at a party.  Technically the party does not have to be over but lets be honest - it really is  (-:

I would agree to go with pre-fab PLCs.   If for no other reason than weatherizing and interface.  Weatherizing your own units can be a bugger and having a pre-fab interface is better than bungee cording a laptop to the saw so that you can adjust an operating parameter on the fly  ;D

Good luck!

Weatherizing is a concern of mine, but really I have so many other components that I need an enclosure that is weatherproof, so I'm not sure the PLC does anything for me there since it would be going in the enclosure regardless.

As for the bungee laptop idea, that would look pretty redneck. I'm also a software engineer and my thought has been to make things configurable so as to not require a recompile of the software. So I think as long as there isn't a bug, adjusting operating parameters should be something that can be done through buttons and switches hooked to the microcontroller instead of changing them with a laptop.

[mad murdock]

weatherproof enclosures are a snap if you start out using a pelican case.  We use them for all kinds of things, they are indestructable, relatively inexpensive, and you can throw them in the ocean and they won't leak.  You can get weatherproof connectors to go from in the box to outside the box, there are automotive type, there are dSub type, and there are aircraft/military type electricla connectors of every shape and size, up to over 100 individual pins on one connector.  Electrical harnesses are the same, you can buy premade shielded/or unshielded wire bundles, and all kinds of things "off the shelf".  The Arduinos are some amazingly simple and inexpensive things that can be fashiioned to do just about anything you can think of! 

[hackberry jake]

The main reason I wanted to incorporate the arduino into the sawmill was just to play with the arduino. It's pretty fun to me. I am also taking an "intro to computer logic" class and this helps me practice writing code. If the benefit of all this is also getting a faster, more accurate sawmill, then its a win/win the way I see it. I will definately keep everything original in place in case the arduino system fails.
I have heard of some people charging per cut. An arduino would make it fairly easy to keep up with this number, or just have it display a rolling tally in $.

[hackberry jake]

For the people that charge by the hour, you could set up a start/stop button. To start your time or stop your time. This could also display a $ tally as well.

[Papa1stuff]

You gentlemen have given me a great idea ,I have a motor home with auto levers on it ,guess I need to put them on my mill ;D

[SPIKER]

I would look into the J1939 standard operators PLCs (mobile processors not really PLCs) Saure Danfoss has some made for mobile hydraulic units that I have worked with.

Not familiar with the ARDUINO processors.   

Mark

[boardmaker]

I have always thought a setup like this would shine on a permanently setup swingblade.  A Plc with steppers for saw head orientation, height, and side to side.  Would be very accurate, and pretty quick with lead screws.  Get a motor to drive the carriage and drive the whole operation from a console.  I really would like to quartersaw, and I've been attracted to swingblades because of it.  I just don't want to stand 1' away from a 24" blade.  I think an automated swinger would be the answer.

[Den-Den]

I am impressed with this thread and will be following it.
I love DIY solutions but would lean toward a commercial PLC and operator interface instead of starting with a bare microprocessor.  The software would be much easier and repair parts more available.  My experience is with Rockwell and GE equipment but would consider something like these if it was my money:
*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_%28Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular%29/DirectLogic_05_%28Micro_Brick_PLC%29/PLC_Units/D0-05DD

*  http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Operator_Interfaces/C-more_Micro-Graphic_Panels/3_inch_Panels_-a-_Accessories/EA1-S3MLW

I honestly don't know that much about microcontrollers, but Arduinos seem to be all the rage and are really affordable. Though I've kind of worried about whether they will hold up to the abuse of being on a sawmill.

Arduino software seems pretty simple to me and parts are easy to find. Are there any other reasons for going with the commercial PLC? I was also curious what makes the Arduino a "bare" microprocessor versus the commercial PLC.

Calling an Arduino a "bare" microprocessor was a mistake.
An Arduino can do anything that most PLCs can do.  PLCs have some of the work already done and I would expect them to be more temperature tolerant.  Ladder logic is easier than "C" for me, this may not apply to you.  I would choose a PLC, that does not mean you should make the same choice. 

[dboyt]

A blade tension sensor would tell you immediately if your blade is taking a dive or climb in the cut.  Metal detector that automatically scans across the log or cant for hardware would also be handy (until the last few cuts, anyway).   Clearly need wireless remote with a video feed so I can mill with my feet propped up in front of the wood stove on cold days.  This thread really has me thinking!

[uler3161]

A blade tension sensor would tell you immediately if your blade is taking a dive or climb in the cut.  Metal detector that automatically scans across the log or cant for hardware would also be handy (until the last few cuts, anyway).   Clearly need wireless remote with a video feed so I can mill with my feet propped up in front of the wood stove on cold days.  This thread really has me thinking!

You could go even further by having it automatically adjust the tension.

I also thought about the wireless remote. You can get a wifi Arduino shield for 50 bucks or so. Somewhere I've seen examples of controlling the Arduino through a web browser, so I suppose if you wanted to run your sawmill from the other side of the planet, it's possible :-)

[uler3161]

Calling an Arduino a "bare" microprocessor was a mistake.
An Arduino can do anything that most PLCs can do.  PLCs have some of the work already done and I would expect them to be more temperature tolerant.  Ladder logic is easier than "C" for me, this may not apply to you.  I would choose a PLC, that does not mean you should make the same choice.

There is a Arduino called the Ruggeduino that I thought I might try if I have temperature issues. Won't know until I can use this thing a little while.

I did just a little research into Ladder Logic. I would really need to work with it to understand how easy it is. I have about 10 years experience in C-type languages though, so coding the Arduino is super easy for me.

[WoodenHead]

Calling an Arduino a "bare" microprocessor was a mistake.
An Arduino can do anything that most PLCs can do.  PLCs have some of the work already done and I would expect them to be more temperature tolerant.  Ladder logic is easier than "C" for me, this may not apply to you.  I would choose a PLC, that does not mean you should make the same choice.

There is a Arduino called the Ruggeduino that I thought I might try if I have temperature issues. Won't know until I can use this thing a little while.

I did just a little research into Ladder Logic. I would really need to work with it to understand how easy it is. I have about 10 years experience in C-type languages though, so coding the Arduino is super easy for me.

I understand where both of you are coming from.  It is somewhat like Ladder logic is to C what C is to machine language.  I learned to program in machine language (for HC6811) in university.  Loved that course.  I learned C later - loved that.  I'm familiar with ladder logic, but have not spent any time with it.  Each is a layer up from the other.  It comes down to how much of the nitty-gritty details you like playing with.   ;) 

[nk14zp]

How about a universal govenor based on blade speed for my belsaw?  One I could hook to any power plant.

[hackberry jake]

How about a universal govenor based on blade speed for my belsaw?  One I could hook to any power plant.

That one would be fairly easy. You could just hook a little stepper or servo to the throttle. Small steppers and servos can be ran right off the arduino without a secondary driver.