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Author Topic: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists  (Read 1632 times)

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Online submarinesailor

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Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« on: October 15, 2013, 01:04:12 pm »
Ran across this while reading the news and wondered if any of you have heard anything about this:  http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1015/Moose-die-off-is-massive-and-a-mystery-to-scientists

Bruce

Offline beenthere

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 01:19:00 pm »
Maybe the expansion of the white tail deer, which can carry and tolerate a tick that the moose cannot tolerate. This has been known for many years to be the limiting boundary for moose moving down from the North. Moose die from it, but deer do not.
Quote
White tail deer have been in North America for 4 million years, and carry meningeal or "brain worm", giant liver fluke and the winter tick, parasites which deer are able to manage and live with. Moose sharing habitat with deer, pick up these parasites, and being relative newcomers to our neck of the woods, fare less well.  Brainworm and liver flukes are passed to moose through a cycle involving deer droppings, snail infection and the ingestion of leaves contaminated by deer pellets or snails. Brainworm, which produce larvae on the surface of the white tail brain, work through the moose brain tissue, destroying the brain, and causing weakness, reduction of equilibrium, disorientation and often death in moose. Flukes are rarely fatal, but can work with other health issues to weaken moose and make them more vulnerable to wolves and other natural fates.

This Christian Science Monitor article seems a bit slanted to the global warming hype, IMO.
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Online submarinesailor

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 02:04:13 pm »
This Christian Science Monitor article seems a bit slanted to the global warming hype, IMO.

BH - I agree with you.  I meant to comment on that and forgot.

Bruce

Offline NWP

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 06:03:40 pm »
When we were in Yellowstone this summer we had hoped to see moose but didn't. I asked a local about it. They said the moose population there has been declining a lot since the reintroduction of wolves a few years ago. I'd rather see a moose than a wolf.
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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 06:19:42 pm »
I haven't seen a Moose on my last 3 trips to the cabin over a couple years time.
We used to see at least one daily without even trying.  There are still signs of them being around here though.  I am here now and there is a Moose hunt going on.  They bagged 30 yesterday and a few more today.  I can remember when there was no Moose hunting in this area because they had been decimated.  We have a lot more Deer now and Bear are seen too often.  Coyotes may also have something to do with it. 
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Offline Ken

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 07:52:24 pm »
I believe our moose population is on the increase but haven't seen the actual provincial numbers lately. 
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Offline pappy19

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 09:02:40 pm »
In the heavy snow areas of Yellowstone, the wolves just run the moose until they can't run anymore and the kill them. They are much easier to kill that way than elk who stay out in the open country and winter in less snow. Moose tend to stay in creek bottoms and eat moss and aspen bark.  Once they get chased out of the creek bottoms, they are dead meat. Once the carcus freezes and not even 1/10th eaten, they move on to kill another warm body. They are efficient killers. I have 2 Idaho tags and hope to fill them this fall or winter.
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Offline WmFritz

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 12:07:20 am »
I have 2 Idaho tags and hope to fill them this fall or winter.

I hope you fill them too, pappy

Here's a story about Elk and Whitetail deer dying from EHD. Someone recently posted about an entire Elk herd found dead in New Mexico. EHD is one theory I believe. I wonder if Moose can be affected too.

 In 2012, 35,000 deer were confirmed killed by this disease in Michigan and the number may be as high as 70,000.

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/09/03/ehd-fells-deer-and-elk-in-numbers-of-states/



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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 04:19:14 pm »
I just got to video a Moose on my ridge. :)
I'll post it in a few days.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2013, 04:24:22 pm »
This Christian Science Monitor article seems a bit slanted to the global warming hype, IMO.

I respect your opinion, but according to WIKI:

"The finding that the climate has warmed in recent decades and that human activities are already contributing adversely to global climate change has been endorsed by every national science academy that has issued a statement on climate change, including the science academies of all of the major industrialized countries"

Offline beenthere

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 04:39:52 pm »
And in the 60's (about the time you were born), we were hearing from the "scientists" claiming that we were in a cool down and the ice age was returning, to look forward to glaciers moving southward. WIKI wasn't around then. ;)

Not saying the last several years have not been warming up, just that there is an ebb and flow much like the tides, and it has been occurring for gazillion of years. We are but a blip (or less) in this time loop.

But it all gives fodder to the "now" scientists to research the trends and ask for more money to do that research. The more dramatic they can be in their claims, the more likely they get a grant.

I say "hype", but that is just my opinion. ;)
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 05:31:22 pm »
Over the years I have only heard of or seen 2 or 3 moose infected with brain worm. About like them videos of the bovine virus in how the animals behaves.

I think the estimate in NB is around 15,000 moose. I think most of them are between Grand Falls, Woodstock, Napadogan and Mirimachi. :D

Come take some of my moose, if you need any. :D

During the moose hunt we always see these signs out on roads that someone is there hunting for moose, marking their territory, so to speak. Those signs are just meant for others to be curteous, as they can not keep anyone out legally. They don't own the crown land nor the game. All one has to do is call the rangers office and that'll put the end to any dispute right quick. ;D

Like beenthere said though about global cooling, that Suzuki had been one of the biggest drummers of a mini ice age in the 70's, until that went out of favor and began global warming speeches. I haven't watched his shows in years, got tired of the propaganda. Then I hear the bleeding heart types say he speaks for Canadians and the environment. He don't speak for this one. Funny how some people are all the sudden our saviours. ;D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline WH_Conley

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 08:30:44 pm »
Hey, Donk. They are the saviors only as long as there is a profit in it.

Oh, you can send a Moose down. We might have a community BBQ.
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Offline Draco

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2013, 04:51:54 pm »
And in the 60's (about the time you were born), we were hearing from the "scientists" claiming that we were in a cool down and the ice age was returning, to look forward to glaciers moving southward. WIKI wasn't around then. ;)

Not saying the last several years have not been warming up, just that there is an ebb and flow much like the tides, and it has been occurring for gazillion of years. We are but a blip (or less) in this time loop.

But it all gives fodder to the "now" scientists to research the trends and ask for more money to do that research. The more dramatic they can be in their claims, the more likely they get a grant.

I say "hype", but that is just my opinion. ;)

I guess, that's the problem.  I MAY be around long enough for the negative effects of this "loop" to affect me.  Way back in the 60s I could plan to be ice fishing in Michigan on Christmas Day.  We had a few weeks of safe ice the winter before last and I can't remember when it was safe to drive on the ice here, since I was in my teens.

My father laughed off the fact that he got his flu shot this year and I will never get another.  Instead of using chicken eggs to grow vaccines, now they use the genetically modified DNA of an armyworm caterpillar, because it is faster and easier.  He won't have time for the possible long term side effects to show up, if they do.  I may.  It's bad enough that I do not have a choice other than GMO foods, unless I grow my own, indoors (pollen, wind, Monsanto).

I heard that most folks could get a job with a pension in the 60s.  The air and water were clean in China, but not here.  At least that has reversed, to some extent.

Again, I respect your opinion.  Maybe it is all of the "hype" that is starting to get to me.

Offline terry f

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 10:45:27 am »
    Science has come a long way in 50 years. Climate change is real, just look at the extreme weather of the last decade. There is no slowing down China, and Africa will be there in 20-50 years.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2013, 12:47:51 pm »
You need to research old climate records kept by Factors of the Hudson's Bay Co. There was a stretch in the 19thC when the Prairie rivers dried up. Hard to move furs by water when the rivers are dry. That's just one for instance. Climate change is real, it has always been here. There is no dispute really.

I often wonder if we really know for a fact, or wild guess, if petroleum is being used faster than it's made. Yes it takes eons to make, but the earth doesn't stand still while it's all sucked up. And the surface area of the earth is great, compared to little pin prick sized oil wells in comparison. Just because untold volumes of it have not been found, doesn't mean it's not there. I could look for a needle in a haystack  and I might find it 20 years from now, or in the next 5 minutes. ;D

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2013, 09:36:58 pm »
My Florida real estate used to be under water from an earlier warming.
There are shells everywhere.  Just saying.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2013, 06:03:47 am »
Same here, the sea came up the Saint John and then up the Tobique River. There is ancient fossilized sea life in the limestone along the River Don, a tributary of the Tobique. As it is now, the tide comes up the Saint John 60 miles to Fredericton. The village of Plaster Rock, got it's name because of deposits from earlier times.

Pre-commercial thinning pays off. :)

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Offline fishpharmer

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2013, 09:55:21 am »
That's just one for instance. Climate change is real, it has always been here. There is no dispute really.

I often wonder if we really know for a fact, or wild guess, if petroleum is being used faster than it's made. Yes it takes eons to make, but the earth doesn't stand still while it's all sucked up. And the surface area of the earth is great, compared to little pin prick sized oil wells in comparison. Just because untold volumes of it have not been found, doesn't mean it's not there. I could look for a needle in a haystack  and I might find it 20 years from now, or in the next 5 minutes. ;D

Swampdonkey, I agree with your theory about climate change, it has and will always occur.  Does man influence it, I don't know.

Tom (our red shirt friend, RIP :'( ), and I used to discuss the real possibility of what you theorize about fossil fuel. 

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Offline Mooseherder

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Re: Moose Die Off Is Massive And A Mystery To Scientists
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2013, 10:34:14 pm »
Somehow I messed up the video of the Moose I took last week except for 2 seconds of it.

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