225 Timberjack cold starting

[David-L]

Hi everyone, The farming season is coming to and end and the skidder will be running full time soon. The 225 TJ has a 353 screamer in it and in the past I has used either on these detroits. Always a warm can and not much of it , I want to try something new and keep the 40wt mobil 1240 hd in it for the winter months as this is the weight that is recomended with low ash content. Has any one ever used a heated dipstick to warm the oil up for an hour or so while say you are cutting the first hitch. I assume the motor would spin quicker and heat plus compression means start. This machine is somewhat new to me and starts ok when its 35 degrees so far which is better than some of the other ones I have had. Really want to stay away from quick disconnects as I run a small toyota with a six in it for the job truck in the winter trying to save gas. Well any thoughts would be appreciated, also do they make a block heater, looks like a plate to the block water jacket by the fuel filter mount top right side of the motor behind the balancing pulley.

                                      Thanks David



 

[rfm7fxfox]

Our tree farmer has a 3-53 in it and it has a block heater. We run 30wt in it year round. On the cold days we bring a small generator and plug our block heater in while we are getting our stuff together for the day and finishing our coffee. Maybe for about 30-45 minutes maybe  lil longer on real cold days and I'll tell you what the block heater makes one hell of a difference! Used ether a few times buy try and avoid it. Never used a heated dip stick though..may be worth a try. But I'd definitely reccomend a block heater. We stay away from those quick disconnects too. They always seem to leak.

[rfm7fxfox]

Our block heater is on the right side of the block. I'll have to get a picture for ya if I can remember.

[Dave Shepard]

I don't think a heated dipstick will have the wattage needed to warm the engine sufficiently, and a block heater heats the top end of the engine, which is at least as important as warming the oil, if not more so.

[David-L]

rfm7fxfox, thanks , a pic would be great and what heater is it and how many watts. I have the cannister filters and would have to adapt a plate for them if this heater fits where I think it does.

                                          David



 

[thecfarm]

I tried a dipstick heater in a tractor. I know there are many kinds out there. I guess I brought one that did not work good. Than I brought a heater with a magnet,that really helped,but don't know about if it would matter in one hour. I know a skidder motor is bigger than my 40 hp NH motor,but I have a block heater. I plug it in before my morning FF and coffee,maybe an hour and I throw an old blanket over the hood too. I just think that keeps the heat in more. Makes me feel good. It starts right up.Makes a big difference.

[ga jones]

If it gets that cold that ether won't work use a block heater and a generator. You really can't hurt a detroit with ether. The rings don't wash do to it being a two stroke.low compression so they won't lock.

[lynde37avery]

dipstick oil heater works no good. I tried it. warms the oil but doesn't do much else. still starts hard. small generator "$350" and a block heater/water circulator, $50-$70 at tractor supply co." super easy to install and it heats up the water in about 20 min to half hr. and your machine starts perfect like it was already warm. I use no either and I never will, it is absolutely horrible for engines.

[JDeere]

The best $1,200.00 I ever spent in the woods was for an Espar heater. I program it to come on at 5:00AM and when I get there the skidder starts like it's July. The cold days in Western Maine can easily get to -25*F. Starting a cold skidder in that weather can be hard on the motor. $1,200.00 is a lot of money but I haven't lost 5 minutes in 3 winters from time trying to start my machine. A lot of guys up here also have them on their cranes.

[loggah]

Dipstick heaters just cook the oil  where it comes in contact with the stick, !!!! generator and block heaters work really well i used to do that in my 653 E john Deere fellerbuncher,usually i left it out in the forest and i wasn't going to get any quick disconnects to it. Ether will "KILL"!!!!!! Detroit diesels!!!!! i started my old 230 timberjack one time with just a small sniff of ether , and all hell broke loose lots of clattering in the top end ,ran it just long enough to load it and get it into the shop. The piston top broke off right at the top compression ring ,it was still firing on that cylinder but the top of the piston was just floating and hammering on the piston bottom. It didn't do the head much good either!!! Don

[Decked]

I dealt with it in 2 ways...A) swap spit with the pickup...I guess ya can't do this nowadays with all the computer garbage on the pickups...
B) I bought a "hot box" from a trucker...same basic thing...but the unit heated water & circulated it thru the skidder via hoses...left the pickup out of it. It did need a 12V supply..but worked great..and FAST!

I never had a problem with the quick-connects in any way... 8)

[David-L]

I have also learned that a Delco 37MT starter will spin the motor faster with it being a higher amperage starter at 1 1/2 times faster than the stock starter. i am looking into this as the positive post on the starter has to be on the top not out front for it to fit. will buy a block heater and see how that goes in the cold mornings this winter.
                                       David

[ga jones]

I'm not going to argue about the good and bad of ether.  it's a lot of opinion based. However ether charge cans came factory on a lot of diesel equipment for a long time. I've worked on a lot of detroits rebuilt them and was trained by a guy that was a detroit mechanic on off shore boats. I've watched detroit mechanics diagnose fuel delivery problems with ether and use it to start them when they sat for years. Ran them on the ground with a fuel can and a can of ether to see if they were any good.Don your piston failure could have been a long time coming and it just happened to be the day. 4 valve detroits break valves a lot. some guys can attribute that 2 ether. they break injector tips too. That could be attributed to ether. Ether has gotten guys out of a lot of tough spots. And it always will.

[Northern Timber Harvesting]

sell the skidder, buy a plane ticket to Hawaii for the winter.

[David-L]

NTH,
It has taken me four machines before this one and selling it is not an option. most machines this vintage have seen many lives, this one has 3600 original hrs on it and is tight and then some. Best part is that there is no payment as I own it outright. love the old iron, and will add the 353 uses five gallons a day for eight hrs of work and I can do most of the repairs. As far as either goes, a warm can atomizes well and a squirt once the motor has turned abit probably won't be to bad. I am looking for ways without using it though and will as I said put in a block heater and see what happens below freezing this winter. Thanks for the input everyone. Oh, i forgot to add that my divorce in 2010 was from bringing home my skidder batteries and sleeping with them to ensure they were nice and warm every morning for that first push of the starter button. My X said its her thats going or the batteries ,and well you know the end to that story.

                                                  David-l

                                                                                     

[chuckthompson]

I've used a Kats flexible stick on oil pan heater (got mind from NAPA).  Stick it on (clean bottom of pan first with brakleen) with silicone sealer or some are self stick.  Mine is 150 watts & It spreads out the heat much better than a dip stick.  You can get a 500 watt one.  Still 110 volts though, so you'd need a genny at the site or inverter on the truck.  You COULD glue on two & power 'em both at once if you need more heat.

[Nemologger]

We used to use heat lines from our pickups to warm skidder engine in cold weather. Had heater hose t'ed into the heater hose of the pickup, had ports on the skidder engine block. Just raise the hood on the pickup when you got to the woods, snap the quick couplers to the skidder. The heater on the pickup would instantly start blowing cold air as the cold water from the skidder entered the system. But in a few minutes it would start blowing warm again as the water circulated through the warm pickup block. Then the skidder would start right up.

[Mark K]

Figured I'd throw my two cents in. Had a 225 for over 10 years with a 353 till it burnt. Real cold days I used a salamander and generator. Took about half hour. I used a small sniff of either occasionally. Never bothered it. My C7D has a duetz. Has never seen either and never will. I've started it well below 0 with a salamander.

[JLeBouton]

Pro-heat.  ;D

[David-L]

Mark K,
Last 225 TJ had a Duetz and yes with a little exhaust from the truck for 20 minutes or so on the heads she was running. Sold it to buy this low hr machine and sometimes wonder.

                         David



 

[David-L]

Fabtek,
Looked at the Pro-Heat website and that looks good. What is your thoughts on damaging the quality of the oil if any and this is a detroit that leaks abit in that area.

                     David

[logloper]

On my Dodge truck, you cycle the intake heater. I believe this just allows the truck to such hot air into the engine? I am going to try putting a hair dryer or a heat gun into the air intake blowing hot air in. Do you think this will work, or mabe not?

[Kodiakmac]

Aye.  Another convert here.  No more quick connect for me. 

Small Honda generator with an in-line circulating heater works just dandy.  I don't go out in the real cold stuff anymore with my old equipment, but I can get my old buggy going when it's 25 below in about 1/2 hour.

[coxy]

has any one ever used what they called either ball back in the day    and what made them better then what we have today

[jwilly3879]

2000 watt generator and a salamander heater set on barrel blowing on the engine works great. I use the small salamander with an elbow on the snout to heat the hydraulic tank on the loader before trying to start it. 20 minutes and its good to go.