iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Million Dollar Walnut???

Started by Red Clay Hound, September 18, 2013, 08:42:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Red Clay Hound

Well, WDH sent me on a wild goose chase today! :D  Danny got a call last week from a landowner in northeast Georgia who has some walnut trees on his property he wanted to sell.  Danny called me, since I live pretty close to the guy, and asked if I wanted to go look at them.  His plan (if the logs were worth it and could be bought for a reasonable price) was to divide the logs and saw them into lumber to sell.  Sounded like a reasonable plan to me so today I went to meet the landowner and look at his trees.

The old gentleman met me at a truck stop just off the Interstate Hwy.  After we talked for a minute he told me to follow him to his property.  That's when I got my first clue how this gig was going to go!  Before I could even get in my truck, he pulled out on the highway and was gone! :o  I jumped in my truck and peeled out of the parking lot.  I finally caught up with him about two miles down the road.

We got to his tract and he did have some nice walnut trees.  They were growing in the woods, most of them were fairly straight, and varied from 12" to 20" diameter.  After looking for a few minutes he asked me what we could give him for them.  I quoted him the price per board foot that Danny said walnut was selling for.  His response was, "that ain't worth messing with".  He then asked me to scale a couple of trees and tell him what they were worth.  I picked out a couple of nice trees and figured how many board feet were in each and told him what we would pay him for each tree.  That's when he started walking toward his truck!

When we got back to the truck, I got the typical story... He has a friend who planted one acre of walnut trees for each of his grandchildren then they were small.  His friend told him that when his grandchildren reached retirement age, each acre of trees would be worth one million dollars. ::)

The old man has a 9 acres tract with quite a few walnut trees, but since Danny and I don't have 9 million dollars between us, I guess we're out of luck on this deal! whiteflag_smiley
2007 Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic with 51 hp. Cat; 2007 Wood-Mizer EG200 Twin Blade Edger; Woodmaster 718 Molder/Planer; Stihl MS460 and MS362 Chainsaws; 2011 John Deere 5065 with JD 553 Loader

thecfarm

Better luck next time. Some people will believe just about anything and anybody too.  :D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

A million $ per acre  ???.

Sorry about the wild goose chase (Snipe hunt).  I should have known better  :)

Lets see, a perfect stand of walnut would yield about 100 tons/acre at harvest.  At $1,000,000 per acre, then that would only be $10,000 per ton or $250,000 per tractor trailer load.  That is only $80,000 per MBF Doyle Scale on the stump.  I don't see what is the problem  :D :D :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dgdrls

Walnut in NYS per the DEC stumpage report goes for low $500/thousand up to $1250/Thousand  median $825/thousand doyle

My past experience with this sheet is its fairly accurate,  and reflects price on the landing.

Where's the little gummybear video when you need it??

Did the gentlemen indicate a price to you??

best
DGDrls

WDH

The price we discussed was up to $800/MBF Doyle ($100 per ton) for good sawlogs.  We would then have to fell them, top them, and skid them out.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Red Clay Hound

Quote from: WDH on September 18, 2013, 09:14:46 PM
The price we discussed was up to $800/MBF Doyle ($100 per ton) for good sawlogs.  We would then have to fell them, top them, and skid them out.
He didn't counter-offer.  I guess he didn't think we were close! :D
2007 Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic with 51 hp. Cat; 2007 Wood-Mizer EG200 Twin Blade Edger; Woodmaster 718 Molder/Planer; Stihl MS460 and MS362 Chainsaws; 2011 John Deere 5065 with JD 553 Loader

dgdrls

Quote from: WDH on September 18, 2013, 09:14:46 PM
The price we discussed was up to $800/MBF Doyle ($100 per ton) for good sawlogs.  We would then have to fell them, top them, and skid them out.

His Loss,  my last sawing contract for the company I'm with was 50/50 (60/40 veneer) split company/logger.
I just don't understand where folks get these crazy idea's about Raw log prices.

DGDrls

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I got a boat for sale, Red Clay.  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Red Clay Hound

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on September 18, 2013, 09:39:00 PM
I got a boat for sale, Red Clay.  ;D
Poston, I've got a better idea.  I'll sell you some walnut slabs for $200 per bf.  (They'll only cost us $80 per bf on the stump, but we'll have a lot invested in sawing, transportation, drying, etc.). They would make some nice benches! :D :D :D
2007 Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic with 51 hp. Cat; 2007 Wood-Mizer EG200 Twin Blade Edger; Woodmaster 718 Molder/Planer; Stihl MS460 and MS362 Chainsaws; 2011 John Deere 5065 with JD 553 Loader

isawlogs

  Might be an improvement to that boat and then he may be able to raise the price some to recoup the cost of the shipping and hagling.   ;D

A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Magicman

The problem is that one of you is looking at a selling scale and the other a buying scale.  OK, and then there is the "reality" scale.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: isawlogs on September 18, 2013, 09:57:20 PM
  Might be an improvement to that boat and then he may be able to raise the price some to recoup the cost of the shipping and hagling.   ;D

If he'll buy the boat, he can ship it himself. :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

mesquite buckeye

You guys...... He only wanted 100 times a fair price. What is YOUR problem? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

A million $ per acre  ???  I have to say, that takes the cake.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Ron Wenrich

Back in about 1978 a company bought a walnut tree for $36,000.  I talked to a veneer buyer about that and asked if he would pay that much for a tree.  He said he would if it was worth it.  But, he's never seen one that was worth it in our area.

I also remember one of the truckers talking about a $50,000 log.  It was 51" at the end of 15', and had a lot to do with ring spacing.  It was destined for Europe.  The trucker might have a hearing problem.   :D

You have to wonder where these guys get their numbers.  Someone put them in their heads.  I assume its people that sell seedlings. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

thecfarm

Or just sitting around talking with a small fire,music and a drink in hand.  ::)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WH_Conley

Anybody want to buy a bridge? I may have a couple in inventory, cheap. :D
Bill

mesquite buckeye

When I was at the Cedar conference in Springfield, MO several years ago, the foresters started talking about the most valuable log they had ever seen. One of the guys said there was a perfect walnut log, don't remember the diameter, but big, 30 ft long that ended up going to Germany for full length veneer and went for something like $75,000. Sounds like a once in several lifetimes log.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Ron Wenrich

Come to think of it, I believe the trucker was talking about a log that was 30" and the end of 30'.  Might be the same log. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Shepard

Let's look at the big picture here. The guy said it would be worth 1 mil when his grandchildren were retirement age. Considering the rate that the retirement age is going up, his grandchildren probably won't retire until they are 120. So, accounting for the current rate of inflation, it probably will be worth 1 mil/acre in 2133. You just need to tell him to be patient, and you'll get back to him then with a better number.  :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Dave Shepard

The highest number that I've heard was a big veneer cherry from PA going to Germany for $50k.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

mesquite buckeye

Again, you have to consider the source for a reality check. I think those extra special veneer trees show up, but that they are so rare that nobody ever sees them. These rarities are like finding a 50 carat diamond while you are cruising timber. If there were a lot of them, they wouldn't bring the crazy high prices. ;D

Meanwhile, I'm trying my best to grow them in whatever species I can. ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Still waiting for the first one. :o
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: Ron Wenrich on September 19, 2013, 09:30:00 AM
Come to think of it, I believe the trucker was talking about a log that was 30" and the end of 30'.  Might be the same log.

Sounds right. Could be. It was the guy who put out the Missouri timber price trends newsletter at the time who told the story. He told it much better than I could. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

bama20a

I've got a well. FOR SALE,Good water has been tested. Must move. Mark,,,,, ;D
It is better to ask forgiveness than permission

mesquite buckeye

You got a pipe to run it to AZ we'll talk. ;D 8) 8) 8)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

isawlogs

 Danny ,
  make it easy on you, give me a 10% down and i will water the seedlings that wil be sowed to make those tres in a few years, I will also do my best to keep the lawn mower from cutting any of them.
  this way you have some time to put up a devoted building to stack and dry these megga dollar investments. Just saying, I don't do these deals to too many folks now, just those I think might have a chance at taken me up on them.  :)  smiley_wavy
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

easymoney

he might just have to advertise his trees on ebay or craigs list. i have saw people asking a lot of money for yard trees. they want money for them and you are supposed to remove the brush and grind the stump. also do not leave any tracks behind either.

Bandmill Bandit

I had a local guy ask me for a thousand bucks for a big old rotten black poplar that fell on his house and puched a big hole in his roof in a bad wind storm. He wanted me to clean it up and take out the stump and every thing and I was suppose to pay him a 1000 bucks to for the privilege

i gave him the number of a tree service guy that is a friend of mine. when it was all over it cost him just over 5000 to get it cleaned up and I could a had the tree fro free but I didn't want it. The roof stiil isnt properly fixed because it did some serious damage to a couple of the main support beams in the vaulted area of the house. Dont know this for a fact but the word is that the repair is gona be over 20,000 cause they have to replace the beams to keep the vaulted ceiling. it in an insurance claim now form what i have been told but tha insurance doesnt cover the tree removal and clean up,
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

pappy19

Just think what the saw dust is worth on those million dollar walnut trees. 8) 8)
2008 F-250 V-10
2007 Lincoln LT
1996 Ford Bronco
Kubota 900 RTV
Shindiawa fan

Roxie

About 30 years ago, I was renting a house that had a walnut tree in the backyard.  Those enormous black ants damaged the tree to the point that it came down during a thunderstorm.  Nothing was damaged when it fell, and the next morning, I was surprised to see the landlord in the driveway.  I asked him if he wanted me to call a friend who would cut it up for firewood, and he said, "No!  That's WALNUT!  I can sell that tree!"   :D

About a month later, when I went to pay my rent, he told me that if I knew someone who wanted it that I could call them. 
Say when

beenthere

QuoteThose enormous black ants damaged the tree to the point that it came down

Those ants were just living in the decayed wood already in the tree. Makes a great "house" for them to hang out and produce more enormous black ants.  :)

People do hear such stories about walnut, and in a rare case they are true. Like years back the local newspaper would interview a hog farmer at the packing house and the huge check he received would be discussed. Readers went away with how rich the hog farmers were, based on that huge check. Big checks make news, but the big bills and hard work don't get a mere mention.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

One log sets the market :).  A log is only worth what someone will pay you for it. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

isawlogs

 Danny am I to understand that I should might just hold off on putting seed in the ground, or you still cogetating this...   ???
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Corley5

I looked at a mostly sugar maple stand last spring that was "over ripe".  The trees should have been cut 20 years ago and even then there would have been few veneer logs.  There were a few big red oak in the mix but they weren't real good quality either.  He wanted everything 14" DBH and up cut and the tops left.  Owner approved high grade.  Easy job.  Twenty acres fairly flat and dry, mostly sugar maple a few red oak, basswood, and white pine in the mix.  All sawlogs and bolts, maybe a couple veneer logs but not enough to call in a buyer.  The owner had some other guys look at it in the past and he was ticked off to say the least at one guy, that I know pretty well, who offered him $6,500.00 for the trees ten years ago.  With today's prices and the tree's decline since then they aren't worth that now.  Another guy that I also know looked more recently and was interested but didn't call him back.  Then I found out why.  He told me he knew there was at least $50,000.00 worth of timber there.  I told him I wasn't interested because I knew he wouldn't be happy with final $$$ amount.  He said he had a couple other guys coming to look.  I was by there yesterday and the trees are still there  ;) :) 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

mesquite buckeye

The other side of this is sometimes a landowner has $50,000 worth of stumpage and gets offered $5000 for it. It is a tough deal for all in this. Usually the landowner doesn't have any idea, really what quality of logs he has. Most wouldn't know the difference between a valuable veneer log, a knotty log, or a log with a hidden hollow. Even if they do, many don't understand the economics of timber, especially the cost of extraction, shipping, milling, drying and so on all the way to marketing. Some see the clear red oak for $8/bd ft at home depot and think that is how much they should get for everything, or at least half that.  Unfortunately, everybody along the line from owner, logger, hauler, miller, retailer has to make a living for the whole system to work. Sometimes explaining that low quality logs only produce low priced products can help.

It is too bad that the relationship between loggers and landowners is often adversarial. Stories abound among landowners that after the logger got in their woods, a lot of loads of logs not paid for left through the back gate. Another problem is the onceler loggers who destroy valuable pole trees by dropping the harvested trees on top of them. This one I have seen myself.

And then there are landowners like this one. Has no idea what he has, but it must be worth a fortune 'cause the trees are big (or not so big).
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Roxie

Quote from: beenthere on September 19, 2013, 03:26:03 PM
QuoteThose enormous black ants damaged the tree to the point that it came down

Those ants were just living in the decayed wood already in the tree. Makes a great "house" for them to hang out and produce more enormous black ants.  :)



Carpenter ants are attracted to wet or decayed wood, but when they move in they do fatal damage by excavating and creating galleries and tunnels.

Say when

WDH

Don't hold off, Marcell.  Get those million $ seedlings in the ground  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

customsawyer

That is okay Danny I know where there is a walnut tree and I will let you have it for a little bit less than that guy in North Ga. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

ET

That $75,000 walnut tree I believe came from Williams County in NW Ohio. I remember reading an article in the Toledo Blade back in the late 70's or maybe 80's. i remember it clearly, was on front page toward bottom of page.
Lucas 1030, Slabber attachment, Husky 550XP, Ford 555B hoe, Blaze King Ultra, Vermeer chipper, 70 acres with 40 acres Woods.

slider

I think the Walnut Mogul should come up with some gas money for this wild goose chase or at least cook you a steak next time you are down.
al glenn

nk14zp

Quote from: mesquite buckeye on September 19, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
You got a pipe to run it to AZ we'll talk. ;D 8) 8) 8)
How about a bridge?  Cheap must sell.
Belsaw 36/18 duplex mill.
Belsaw 802 edger.
http://belsawsawmills.freeforums.org/

mesquite buckeye

We need bridges less than water to put under them. ;D :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

WDH

I have been called many things, but never a Walnut Mogul  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

slider

Come on Danny ,everyone knows your the biggest sycamore hustler around here.As I see it you just expanded by going to walnut.
al glenn

julio

You have moved up in the world now you are PIMP DADDY smiley_inspector
If you put your finger in your ear and scratch, it sounds like PacMan.

WDH

Have walnut.  Will sell.  Want walnut.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: WDH on September 30, 2013, 07:22:36 AM
I have been called many things, but never a Walnut Mogul  :).

Danny stands on the street corner, in Macon with Sycamore Slabs and sells them for $300.00 each.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

customsawyer

Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Al_Smith

I think a lot of those urban legions must be based on the outragious prices they fetch from those sunken logs they fish out of the great lakes .Fiddle back maple etc .

I had heard of a local veneer yard ,T and J Ellis that supposedly got in excess of 20 grand from a log shipped to Germany .However I'd well imagine that story was launched  in an old fashion practice session of spreading camal dung from days before BS was invented.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

And here I always thought Danny was the PECAN PIMP!

Herb

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Al_Smith

Different Al,I'm innocent of all charges ---this time. ;D

WDH

Yes, Slider Al, but you are far from innocent.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Al_Smith

Oh my how can you say that with my innocent mild Mr milk toast manner . :D--even if it is the truth  ;)

Thank You Sponsors!