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Went to Lumber Drying School in Alabama

Started by WDH, September 14, 2013, 08:53:56 PM

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mesquite buckeye

Better than nice. Looks like somebody beat the heck out of those logs getting them there though..... ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Dodgy Loner

Whoa. And I thought I had scored some nice cherry logs. Those are incredible!
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

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SwampDonkey

Our cherry up here would make more pulpwood or firewood than good sawlogs. Oh we get some but logs, but you have to turn away a bunch of stuff to get a good one.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

You need to work on your covetousness, WDH. ;D 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SwampDonkey

There is a road near here that has cherry trees along the shoulder of the road as you drive down through them. Public road. Musta been an old fence row up along the ditch for years because the DOT always cleans roads out every 10 years or so with a backhoe. Some of them are large diameter, but none of them are clear log trees. Probably full of wire.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

OneWithWood

YH, if I may ask, how much did those bodacious cherry logs set you back?
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

WDH

Mesquite,

Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's cherry logs  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

:D How am I suppose to get my cherry lumber down there if you guys get too chummy with my saw miller? I thought you was suppose to feed the saw miller, not the other way around. I see how it works now. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: WDH on February 11, 2014, 08:33:45 PM
Mesquite,

Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's cherry logs  :).

Exactly. I solve this problem by growing my own. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

YellowHammer

Quote from: OneWithWood on February 11, 2014, 12:44:57 PM
YH, if I may ask, how much did those bodacious cherry logs set you back?
I got these for $850/MBF from a big mill who sets them aside for me, which is a little high, but I needed the reload as I was about out of stock.  The last load I got for $550/MBF from a logger who also stockpiles high grade logs for me.  They were as nice and produced some unique and deep grain.  Sometimes I just take them off my farm, depends on what the loggers have and what I need at the time.

After I dry them, I'll sell the boards at $3,550 to $4,000/MBF.
YH 


  



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

mesquite buckeye

Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

fat olde elf

This topic is working proof of just what a great place the Forestry Forum is !!!
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

Cazzhrdwd

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 11, 2014, 10:34:16 PM
Quote from: OneWithWood on February 11, 2014, 12:44:57 PM
YH, if I may ask, how much did those bodacious cherry logs set you back?
I got these for $850/MBF from a big mill who sets them aside for me, which is a little high, but I needed the reload as I was about out of stock.  The last load I got for $550/MBF from a logger who also stockpiles high grade logs for me.  They were as nice and produced some unique and deep grain.  Sometimes I just take them off my farm, depends on what the loggers have and what I need at the time.

After I dry them, I'll sell the boards at $3,550 to $4,000/MBF.
YH 


 

Old thread but very informative.

I wanted to say YH those cherry logs you had last year in this pic are very nice, the price especially. At that time I was paying 3,750/MBH for Alleghany PA cherry, as nice as that but terribly expensive. I was selling it for 5.50 per foot and I specialize in long lumber.

Another reason I wanted to comment since cherry came up, its an absolute shame what has happened to the cherry market, absolutely dead up here in the mid-Atlantic. How is it where you are?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

YellowHammer

Cazzhrdwd,
I'm still buying veneer grade cherry logs for $850 MBF and selling the lumber as fast as I can dry it.  The curly cherry in the photo a couple posts back sells for $6 to $7 per Bdft, and I wish I could get more of it, but it's not too common.   The FAS and better sells for $4 to $5 per Bdft, so gives me a very significant profit margin when buying at 85 cents. 

Although it seems the overall market is slowing down, which is good for me as it keeps the log prices low, I'm not seeing it in retail cherry sales, if anything they have increased as people start moving away from red oak.  For example, 4 weeks ago, I had a guy drive 8 hours from North Carolina to handpick and buy some wide curly cherry.  He bought a good bit, and liked it so much, he got worried that he'd never get another shot at some so drove back again the next weekend to buy some more!     

Cherry is one of several species that a small time operator like myself can produce lumber that is significantly brighter and more vibrant than conventional commercial kilns and other retail outlets.  Once people see it in person, they are hooked.  The bright colors and high quality are what keeps people buying. 

We were restocking the shelves a couple days ago, and I took this picture because I thought it would look good on the webpage, but also because it shows the kind of variety of species we dry and sell routinely.  The pack on the left is some of the clear cherry, but also sitting there is some red oak, quarter sawn white oak, sassafras and in the background, a nice pack of cedar that is about to go into the kiln. 

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Cazzhrdwd

^
That's really incredible. Alabama is probably to far to ship cherry to where I'm at, but maybe not at prices like that. I can get smaller logs in the 2's but the size is what gives that great lumber. What's the gum like in the logs you're sawing? I had zero gum and great color, but it sure costs.

Oak is starting to die, I'm not sure what pushed it so high through the winter, looks like supply issues. Not many people using it for moulding anymore. It would be great if cherry came back where I'm at, it is pure pleasure sawing logs like that.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

SwampDonkey

My cherry supply is dried up except if I was to saw some local wild cherry. But no size to it and lucky to get 6-8' lengths off the but end. They get to about 20" up here but you see mostly 12 and under in old overgrown pasture, fence lines and orchards. I have some in the back yard I hope size up a bit more before they lose quality. I also want the burls on the limbs. When Maritime lumber was in business, PA cherry was $8/bf for 8/4 select and up. Kilned and rough. They sunk the ship when a new owner took over, must have been government money involved in the sale.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

thecfarm

YellowHammer,that is a nice looking picture.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

SwampDonkey

Yes, that is nice whack of lumber. Too bad you lived so far south.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Philbo

I love this thread.  Awesome and inspiring operation and pics from YellowHammer.

YH, what do you use to straight-edge your lumber?  Jointer (followed by planer, table saw to finish mill process) or do you have a SLR?  Also, it may have been mentioned earlier, but what is the final thickness that you mill lumber to ready to sell?

Thanks!

Dave Shepard

YellowHammer, do you sell your lumber rough and plane on request, or do you S2S or S4S before adding it to inventory?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

I skip plane every high grade board that comes out of the kilns.  On the surface, it seems like an almost unnecessary process because many people have planers, but in reality, it serves many important business purposes and is an integral part of my operation.

First off, planing allows me to grade boards accurately and quickly and gives me instant feedback on my quality control.  I know exactly what I have when it goes in the rack, and the customer knows exactly what they are buying.  Planing clearly exposes all kinds of defects such as hidden bug holes, wind shake, and lots of drying defects such as hidden sticker stain, browning, graying, staining, etc. 

Planing high grade lumber makes the board much more valuable to the customer as they don't have to rough plane with their home planer, (or only minimally), and they know exactly what they are buying because it really shows off the color and grain.  Of course, planing an ugly board just produces a smooth ugly board so really adds little value to lower grade wood.   

I mill to 1 1/8", kiln dry , and then plane both sides and generally, most times, get a fully planed board at 15/16". This lets me sell thicker boards, which allows me to charge more.  Many customers will pay more for thicker wood, and if I can mill carefully to the standard hardwood scale 4/4 and still end up with a nearly 1 inch finished, planed board, everybody wins. 

Many customers don't know much about planing rough lumber and hog off one side and lightly skim the other.  This unbalanced planing can result in warped wood, so I avoid that scenario by doing the first passes myself so the customer doesn't have much, if anything, left to do.  So me skip planing helps protects the customer's wood without them even knowing it. 

Planing also makes the finished product much easier to dead stack, and produces a tighter pack, which limits moisture and bug exposure.

Being able to end up with thick boards requires judicious sawing techniques, and having flat boards come off the mill and out of the kiln is very important as it gives a thicker board without having to saw thicker, and also makes much faster planing because it can be done at max speed with a single light pass each side.

I charge 50 cents per board foot to further plane down to 3/4" if a customer requests it (which is what charge for sawmillng) and with my planer I can do about 400 Bdft per hour or $200 per hour.  That's yet another advantage of skip planed lumber, it's already flat and at a regular, predictable dimension, so finish planing is easy and fast and good extra money.

I outsource a good deal of my skip planing these days, at 15 cents per Bdft, to a local hardwood company and use my planer for smallish emergency batches, or for final planing for customers.  I carry a load to them every other Friday, and pick it up the next. Here's a picture of a load headed to get surfaced this winter.   


Here's another just a few weeks ago. No way I want to personally plane this much lumber, I'd much rather have some other young strong backs do it. 


Since we grade every board, we do straighten any board that has curved edges.  If it looks straight (most do) we don't edge it.  If it's curved, we edge it.  We don't have a SLR but use a long fence on a 5 hp table saw with power feed which gives almost SLR quality cuts at 104 feet per minute, which is smoking.  A properly set up power feed will suck boards up in a straight line, and spit them out, mile after mile.  Not quite as accurate as a SLR, but very close.  I'd like to get an SLR but the opportuniy just hasn't presented itself yet, and the power feed does a fine job.

I have tried marketing experiments and have found that although planing has many advantagous and greatly increases value to the product (I.e what acustomer will pay) straight lining doesn't really, if the boards are already pretty straight.  I do however, sometimes get batches of boards that require lots of edgeing to make them look good, and I have the same guys who skip plane use their professional SLR machine to clean them up.  I just had to do this in some quarter sawn white oak, as I wanted them to look as good as possible.
YH



YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

pineywoods

1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

gww

YH
I found your post to be very imformative, thanks
gww

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