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Went to Lumber Drying School in Alabama

Started by WDH, September 14, 2013, 08:53:56 PM

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WDH

No, he just does it in his Spare Time  :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

YellowHammer

My wife and I both have full time jobs, a couple kids, plus the cattle business, and of course the sawmill lumber business.  We stay fairly busy...and tired ;D

For us, the biggest technical risk and financial reward is the drying and processing of the boards.  It doubles or sometimes even triples the value of the lumber, so I put a lot of effort into having as fast a throughput as I can, with as high a quality a possible.  Lots of people around here have saws, almost nobody has kilns, or if they do, use them for very long before they ruin enough wood to give up on them.

I dry quite a few different species of wood native to North Alabama so tailor the best characteristics of the different drying methods to the species.  I use the more forgiving methods for the difficult species, and put the hammer to the ones that are forgiving.  Using pallets or packs of lumber instead of just loading the kiln to capacity also gives me an extra variable to control drying rate and time. I try to manipulate the load size so that the compressor in the DH kiln and even the solar kiln is always removing water at its maximum rate within the maximum safe removal rate of the particular species.
YH

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

OneWithWood

As YH has learned, drying is a much art as it is science.
I like your setup, YH.  Tired is a good state of being in this business...
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

WDH

Robert (Woodling),

I went with your suggestion at the Pig Roast to go smaller.  I am in the later stages of building the chamber for the Nyle L53.  Robert (Milton AKA Yellowhammer) has been an invaluable resource.  I thank both of you Roberts  ;D,.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

OneWithWood

You, sir, are most welcome.  It is but a small repayment of all the sage advice you have bestowed upon me over the years.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

YellowHammer

Quote from: OneWithWood on October 16, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
You, sir, are most welcome.  It is but a small repayment of all the sage advice you have bestowed upon me over the years.

Well said! smiley_thumbsup
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Ronnie

I have been debating getting the L53 and had a question about storing your kiln dried lumber. How do you guys store your lumber that is for sale after its kiln dried. I saw the racks that YellowHammer uses, does the wood regain some moisture if its not stored in a controlled environment?
TK2000, JD5075, Stihl 660,270,170.

beenthere

Yes, it will seek to reach equilibrium moisture content based on the relative humidity of its environment.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

As mentioned, store it at the correct humidity, and the MC will not change.  But this can be hard to do.  There is a chapter on storage in DRYING HARDWOOD LUMBER at the end of the book with some practical ideas.

Here is one of the easiest ideas.  If you wrap the lumber pile or stack with plastic on all six sides, there is no way that any moisture can get in or out of the bundle, so the MC will not change.  (Repair any holes promptly.)  You can also use a tight trailer or shipping container, as again moisture influx or outflow is minimal.  If you paint the container a darker color, it will get a little solar heat which will help keep the RH a bit lower.  You can buy plastic baggies that are large enough to hold a bindle of lumber.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Gadrock

well I also went to school...today...AND I must say that YH is a great host. My time was limited and the total driving time was about 10 hours. We packed in the absolute most anyone could absorb in 3 hours I am sure.

YH's operation is a spotless dream of a showplace, second to the hospitality.

My desires to work with SYP which is contrary to the products he works with but we formulated possible operational scenarios that could fit me.

Tonight when I go to bed there will be much more "what-ifs" to cipher on. When the opportunity arrises I feel certain that YH will open up his knowledge to make a working plan for those upcoming problems.

Thank you YH for such a delightful info-opportunity. THANK YOU

David Gaddis


Carry on
LT40 G18,   bent Cresent wrench,   broken timing light
Prentice 280 loader, Prentice 2432 skidder, Deere 643J fellerbuncher, Deere 648H skidder, Deere 650H Dozer

WDH

You will have visions of sugarplums kilns in your head, tonight  :).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

I appreciate your visit, the effort it took for you to drive that far, and I'm grateful you made it home safe.  I was telling my wife that I could see the gears turning in your head as you were coming up with ideas for your own operation, and that is always a great thing.  I am glad I was able to help a little.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Too Big To Fail

nice operation YH-
I'm interested to hear more about what went into your decision to only dry to 8'6".  It sure seems like it must simplify things.  Do you also only mill material to 8'6, or do you market longer material air dried only or what?  Do you get many requests for longer material?  thanks!

pineywoods

+1 on Yellowhammer's comments. David has been to my place plus several phone conversations. I could see the gears turning and cogitating a bunch of well thought out questions. We talked mills and solar kilns. He has a manual lt40, which is right down my alley. I predict he will do well, and with his interesting background, certainly be an excellent contributor to the collective knowledge of this forum..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

YellowHammer

Quote from: Ronnie on February 02, 2014, 03:20:54 PM
I saw the racks that YellowHammer uses, does the wood regain some moisture if its not stored in a controlled environment?

Yes, but we sell enough wood and I time the kiln loads in such a way that its rare for a board to stay on the outside racks for more than a short time.  The air drying pallets of lumber are my stockpile reserve, and I only cycle a particular species through the kiln as I need for anticipated restocking. That's one of the reasons I have standardized my procedures, lumber thicknesses, and load sizes as much as I can, it gives me a very accurate way to predict and time my kiln loads so that I can have a new load of fresh dry lumber just as a rack is starting to get empty.

Quote from: Too Big To Fail on February 08, 2014, 07:32:37 AM
nice operation YH-
I'm interested to hear more about what went into your decision to only dry to 8'6".  It sure seems like it must simplify things.  Do you also only mill material to 8'6, or do you market longer material air dried only or what?  Do you get many requests for longer material?  thanks!

When I first started, I milled to whatever size log I had on hand.  I soon found out it was causing me all kinds of handling, storing and drying issues.  Very disorganized and inefficient for my operation.  I also found most people didn't really like transporting or handling 10 to 12 foot long lumber in their pickups and most customers just generally preferred to deal with 8 foot long lumber, as it was what they are used to.  So it is the sweet spot length for most of my customers.

On the supply side, most of the loggers I deal with cut their logs to either 9, 12, or 16-18 feet long, depending on the species and their setup. Loggers don't end seal, and I have to account for that, also.  So I can take non end sealed 9 foot logs and generally trim them clean to slightly longer than 8 feet.  I can also generally get two good, clean ended 8+ logs from a 16-18 footer.  A 12 footer lets me yield 8's and 4's.  So an 8'+ board is the sweet spot of all of these with minimal log waste, but enough to allow adequate end trimming. 

All my pallets and lumber racks are exactly 8 feet long, so I can confirm a board's lengths during all phases of me working with it.  So if I have an end crack in a board, and it doesn't extend into the pallets or rack, then both the customer and I know they are getting a clean 8 footer.  Any shorter boards are also cut to standard lengths.  Also, I mill and edge to all standard widths, so when marking boards for sale they all fall into the same general categories, so it goes very fast. 

Sometimes I get requests for longer lumber, but it's pretty rare.  Most furniture makers don't want long lumber, if anything, they generally want shorter to minimize their waste.

If somebody brings me logs, I will mill to whatever length they want.
YH

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SwampDonkey

I sure wish you were closer, I like going to where the lumber is dry and graded not just mill run, take what you get. ;D I lost a good source locally here when Maritime Lumber went down. The new owners didn't know the business, as the old fellow that sold it ran it for 30 years. Their drying was a lot to be desired, a lot of checking and not dried very good, especially when you can drill a hole and the water chases the drill bit out. ::)

As to storing, Maritime Lumber had theirs in an unheated shed, so you know it was never going to be below 16% after a while. And they had a lot of inventory. I would imagine it's costly to use climate control, you have to move a lot of wood. Staying small and just drying on demand is much nicer I think and less costly.

That all makes good sense as to the lengths of your lumber. Unless your building tall book cases, hand rails, and upscale moulding in mansions, libraries and hospitals, 4 ft is mostly all that is needed. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Too Big To Fail

Makes sense.  Do you mill up the 4 footers trimmed off the ends of the 12s or is that firewood?  I'm surprised people would buy 4s over 8s, also seems like they would take longer to mill/bf.  That's not to say I don't mill up shortys, but I'm pretty stingy.  :D

YellowHammer

Quote from: Too Big To Fail on February 09, 2014, 08:17:55 AM
Makes sense.  Do you mill up the 4 footers trimmed off the ends of the 12s or is that firewood?  I'm surprised people would buy 4s over 8s, also seems like they would take longer to mill/bf.  That's not to say I don't mill up shortys, but I'm pretty stingy.  :D

You are right on point, I hate milling short logs, so I try to avoid getting 12 foot long logs, however many times it can't be helped.  I try to mow through them pretty quick, and saw them all at the same time so I can move my offloading tables around to make that go faster.  Sometimes if I get a whole load of 12 footers and I mill them all full length and then trim them to my standard 8 foot length with a single chainsaw pass after they are put on the pallets. Then I will take the 4 foot cutoffs and put them end to end to get my standard 8 foot stacks.  Also, sometimes I use the 4 foot sections to make my thicker live edge slabs to sell for table tops and such, so I'm actually taking about the same bdft per pass of 4 foot long 2 inch slabs as 8 foot long, one inch boards, and I don't have to edge the slabs, which saves time, which is what I tell myself, anyway.   ;D Since I cant use the board return or other hydraulics with the shorty's, I never mill them unless I have an off bearer to be my "automatic" log turner and board return.  Sometimes, if the 12 foot logs are nasty, I trim the ends to get the best 8 footer possible, because I can sell a clean 8 footer for a lot more than a knotty 8 footer and 4 footer. If the 4 footers are small diameter or low value, sometimes I just use them for firewood.  It all depends if working them makes dollars and sense. 

Most of the our less than 8 foot boards show up during the trimming and culling stage, when I cut out end cracks and dress the boards for sale.  Its amazing that a customer will not buy a "price reduced due to defects" 8 foot board but will snatch up a full price 6 footer with the defects trimmed off.

I also sell to a lot of people who own cars, and they suck up the short boards that fit their vehicle.  I used to groan when a buyer wouldn't show up in a pickup truck, now I just smile when they drive up in an Accura or Honda Accord.    I know they have money to spend and they didn't drive all the way out here to pet the cows.  Well, some do... :D
YH

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SwampDonkey

Wait until I come down with the RAV4. I've hauled 9 footers in it. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

YellowHammer

Generally, I don't have that many short logs to deal with.  This is a load of nice cherry I just got, all are trimmed, sealed, and ready to mill. I only had two 4 foot cutoffs, seen in the background.  Though short, they will also yield some nice wood.  You can see my 8 foot measuring stick on top of the logs. 


 

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

Wow Robert, those are juicy logs.  If only I could get cherry logs like that around here  :-\.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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