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PH260 Cost to Operate?

Started by TGS, September 11, 2013, 02:03:38 AM

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TGS

With the demand for rental housing in my area I'm thinking of building a couple of places over the next year. Nothing big, and mostly in a style that compliments my ability to produce lumber.  Probably something of this flavor...

 

The interior of these cottages have quite a bit of lumber in them, mostly in panels, flooring, etc. Stuff that I can't produce right now. This summer I dried some hickory and took it off to be made into flooring. Though the cost wasn't necessarily prohibitive, it was high enough that I started thinking of doing my own. The price of other milling services like 4x6 D profile logs for mini cabins/sheds and 2x8 log siding was really high though. Electric and labor aside, what would you say an approximate cost per 1000 bf would be on a PH260 or Baker 412? I know there are lots of variables here, but lets just assume we're talking about 5" flooring out of some hardwood like white oak. Or whatever you want to use as an example. I'm just trying to figure out my break even point on producing my own millwork like trim, flooring, paneling, and siding in x number of houses v/s paying someone else to do it for me. If I can nearly recoup my investment with the first two houses, then I may just buy my own machine. If its going to take 15 houses to get there, then I'll let someone else do it.

By the way, my county is zoning free. No inspections beyond electrical and plumbing. Every piece of lumber that goes in a house can legally be produced by me.

Thanks.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

The total cost is somewhere around $30-35 per MBF.  It depends if you use a standard knife or have special knives.  This number includes depreciation over 10 years and maintenance, labor, electricity, wood waste disposal, safety equipment, etc.

A Baker 412 will cost you around $16,000 for the equipment, delivery and installation. and maybe $5000 more if you do not have but need to put in a dust system.  I doubt that in two houses you can save $21,000 and pay for the machine.  If depreciated over 10 years, you need to save about $4000 per year.  But then, you also have to use it often over the next ten years.  Building just a few houses does not seem to be enough usage to justify this machine or similar.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

WoodenHead

I have a PH260 and that figure of $30-35/Mbft seems quite low (if it includes labour and electricity).  Perhaps the Baker 412 has better output.  Let's say you are doing 1 x 6 v-joint for panelling in pine, at $35 per Mbft you would have to run through at least 2000 linear feet an hour (to earn $35/hr gross).  I know I am by myself, but I don't think I could come anywhere close even with 2 people.  With white oak, I've had to keep the speed down a bit.  I would also recommend running 4 knives per head (top and sides).  A lot may have to do with your setup as well (i.e. how well staged your material is on input and output).

TGS

Thanks for taking the time to respond guys. I got into this, "I can make x amount of dollars per day if I ONLY saw x amount of lumber ," mentality before I bought my first mill. Great in theory, but its just that, theory. lol. I am glad that I bought that first mill and subsequently my second, but still, I was way off on my early retirement date. Ha. I knew that I wouldn't break even on two houses but I was just curious where that break even point would be. I'm going to figure it up and see just how much trim and other such items are in these houses and then compare it to my costs to see where I stand. I just wanted to talk to guys who have experience and figure out the overlooked expenses that I needed to account for. I'm about to buy my first lot for one of these cottages so I'll see how it goes. I may very well build it and put a quick sell price on it and try to move it. Ill let the first one pay for the rest if it sells.

Martin

WoodenHead

TGS,
To me, you are looking at things the right way.  There's no harm investigating whether a machine will be paid for in two houses.  And there are many factors to consider. 

I usually charge per linear foot for running my machine while others on the forum likely charge by the hour.  My rate is $0.20-$0.25/lft for quantities of 400 linear feet and up, including labour and everything else (except material).  When dealing with customers there is often a knife change-over involved so that burns some of your time right there.  For more complex patterns this can take up quite a bit of time, trying to get it just right.  I do charge by the hour for quantities less than 400 linear feet ($50/hr - minimum 1 hour).  The reason I go by linear feet, is because I find that once the material is 6" or wider, I'm typically running at the lowest feed rate.  White oak slows me down as well (even at the narrower widths).  I run a lot of non-kiln-dried pine.  Even though it's at 11-14% moisture content, it seems to gum up the machine, so I'm cleaning quite often.  That too takes up my time.

TGS

Woodenhead,
Your rates are on par with what I see around here. The 4x6 D profile is even higher and only one place does it. The other bunch mostly processes poplar and they are pretty picky about what they will take.

Just the processing bill alone will be in the neighborhood of $800 for the flooring in the house. That doesn't count my lost day or the $50 in fuel to get it there and back, either. When you start throwing quarters at something it doesn't take long for the money to add up.

Martin

Handy Andy

If you can make wide plank flooring, vs the standard 2 1/4", you can save yourself considerable time installing it.  Longer pieces help too. Get your costs figured out before you price the house.  Don't ask why I say so.[/color]
My name's Jim, I like wood.

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