iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Blade detective

Started by Larry, September 09, 2013, 09:19:54 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Larry

A while back my mill had a match up with an oversize oak.  The mill lost and while getting the band out of the cut it came off the wheels.  Next cut was rough so I figured I had knocked the set out of a couple of teeth.

When I re-set the band this afternoon all the teeth were near perfect so I knew that wasn't causing the rough cut.  When setting the teeth looked a bit dull but not bad.  I did notice the band was a little tight going through the setter at one point.

I laid the band on the floor where I could look down at it.  Instead of round there was one spot that had a very slight ellipse.  Closer examination showed at the apogee of the ellipse there was a very slight twist in the band.  I would have never seen the twist if it hadn't been laying flat on the floor but I did feel it in the setter.  Normally I would have thought a piece of crud on the band caused the tightness.  This twist was what was causing the roughness in the cut and also the reason the band felt tight going through the setter at one point.  The band might be ok for a nail log buts that's it.

If I know the band is sharp and set good but won't cut the first thing I do is lay it on a flat floor.  Sometimes I've seen them not lay flat or like today discovered a twist.  I've even had a couple of new bands that showed a problem from the factory.  Maybe the forklift guy punched em.

Just thought a tip that might help somebody.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Magicman

I put a blade on today and immediately recognized it.  It must be warped or something because it causes the sawmill to actually vibrate while sawing.  I do not plan to loose it again.  It either gets fixed or trashed.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Peter Drouin

You will feel it when you coil it up too . It will want to open on you
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

drobertson

this is just my humble opinion, and of course I am a rookie, so please take this with a grain of salt, but I have found with the few blades I have been through,  even though there is only .003 difference between the 042's and 045's on most blade manufacturers, the wmz's are a different tool steel, a good one! just tougher than nails through the whole blade, and often times harder and a bit brittle for my operation.  I have found when using wmz's, feed hard and fast, and take what they give, and it is good while it last.  wmz's are just to brittle for my mill, and it is probably me and my dumb way of sawing.  I like blades that are as dumb as me and just keep on sawing, even if it's break time,   kinda dumb concept, but I never have been accused of being that sharp anyway,,  david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

Good info Larry,twists and kinks are something that's hard to take out of a band it renders them usable but less than prime.Catching the back of the band on gigback or trying to back out is the usual cause to push a band off its wheels.If the wrong lever is hit wile in a cut it has much the same effect.If you have clearance its good to have something soft inside the bandwheel covers to save the teeth when a band comes off the wheels. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

giant splinter

Larry,
Thanks for the heads up, I have noticed that every once in a while when I put a fresh blade on the mill something just does not seem right. The first few times I noticed a slight vibration and or a difference in the sounds that where coming from the power head and band wheels I suspected that I was responsible, after shutting down and carefully inspecting things I could not find anything out of alignment or adjustment. The mill was new and although I had been through Wood-Mizers 8 hour training course at the Oregon branch before taking delivery of my mill I kept thinking I may have missed something or may be doing something wrong, I was in a transition period from an old Frick 00 to the LT40HD and just was not that dialed in on the orange bandsaw mill, I don't sharpen or set my own bands and depend on Wood-Mizer re-sharp to keep me in fresh saw blades.
Over the past two years I have had a few bands that did not seem right from the first cut and they where taken right back off and are now in a box and awaiting a suspect metal log to show up, interestingly enough the replacement band that took over where the suspect band left off did a fine job so who knows whats going on there, I have taken a few of the fresh bands that seemed short of acceptable to re-sharp and asked what they thought, the response is on par with the bands ( short of acceptable ) and may be something that just happens during shipping or handling ...... after the same band came out of re-sharp it cut fine. Seems like the old saying " you win a few, you lose a few and some get rained out " might apply in this case.
roll with it

hackberry jake

I have noticed "wobbly" bands right out of the box before. I blamed it on the band not being welded perfectly straight.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

sawmillhand

Good thread because I thought I was crazy I had a new blade right out the box do the same thing to me. Vibrated the mill and I actually seen it start diving while I was sawing. Put new blade on all was well.
1990 woodmizer LT40 Hyd  2004 Ford F350 Flatbed. Plenty of tractors.

bandmiller2

You just know standing at a bench all day welding bands is a boring job and mistakes slip through. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

beenthere

I would expect the welding process to be pretty straight forward with no room for human error getting it straight, square, and a near-perfect weld. i.e automated and not done by hand.

Could be wrong, but auto is what I'd suspect from any blade maker.

Does bandmiller know different?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Larry

I think there may be a big difference in the equipment/automation used.  When I get a WM band now days its hard to spot the weld because its so good.  Other band sources and the grind on the weld stands out like a sore thumb.

Makes me think some welds may be better than other welds. :D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Magicman

WM sent me a selection of videos when I sent my Personal Best entry and one of them shows welding a band.  It is all enclosed and automated.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

hackberry jake

There are many sources for bands. Each one likley has a slightly different set up.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

ladylake

 Bandsaw welds are all ground as the blade is fused leaving a little hump on both sides , WM must use finer sandpaper for the final grinding.  I'd rather have a weld I can find easy as I start both sharpening and setter at the weld.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

I have seen videos of band welding,the band stock comes in large rolls its pulled out on a long table cut and welded by an automated welder then the joint ground smooth.I would be very surprised if WM did not have the process completely automated.I have welded many bandsaw loops for a metal cutting bandsaw,not hard if you take care in your work. Welding done butt weld with a resistance welder for the purpose not by hand. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Magicman

Quote from: Larry on September 10, 2013, 09:45:24 PMWhen I get a WM band now days its hard to spot the weld because its so good. 
Larry, I think that it is your eyes.    ;)  The WM welds are easily seen.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

On Friday morning at the Paul Bunyan Show in eastern Ohio, October 4, we are having a seminar on band saws...W-M is one of the presenters, along with Lenox and me.  It is 1-1/2 hours.  Q&A is part of the seminar too.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

MRowsh

According to what I have been finding out about the process of making band saw blades,  there is two methods;

1. Punched out saw blades
2. Grind out saw blades

Which is better?  Anyone has any hands on experience to share?
LogMaster LM2 with Kubota V1305 Diesel conversion.
There is a price for everything in life!!!  No free lunches!
Retired US Army.

ladylake


I think all are punched out, some are ground after punching.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

beenthere

What I would say too...  punched and then ground.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MRowsh

No, not all punched and then grounded.  If I am not mistaken, some are computer controlled grounded, from start.
punched and sharpened introduces some stress to the metal.
LogMaster LM2 with Kubota V1305 Diesel conversion.
There is a price for everything in life!!!  No free lunches!
Retired US Army.

beenthere

MRowsh
Are you talking just about the sawmill bands, or including all bands for band saws?

What is your source for the info you are finding? It would be interesting to learn more about it.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

MRowsh

I remember from when I was stationed in Germany, one of my German friends from shooting team in our Gun Club was working for a company that were in all sort of saw blade manufacturing. I got a tour of the factory too. Very impressive operation. I did enjoy watching their tempering process and it was very educational.  That was another deciding factor on my decision for what I have placed my order for LM2.  According to what I read, that is how they produce their saw blades.
After I get my saw mill, then I can test their blades compared to others and verify their claim.
LogMaster LM2 with Kubota V1305 Diesel conversion.
There is a price for everything in life!!!  No free lunches!
Retired US Army.

ladylake

Quote from: MRowsh on September 11, 2013, 12:16:51 PM
No, not all punched and then grounded.  If I am not mistaken, some are computer controlled grounded, from start.
punched and sharpened introduces some stress to the metal.

  I cant imagine them grinding out the whole gullet, laser cutting might be another option.   I really don't think punching stresses a blade as I run Simonds that I know are punched and get 20 sharpening's out of quite a few.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

bandmiller2

Theirs a lot of hype spread by band suppliers to convince you that their product is best.There is little difference between the name brand bands,theirs no majic except sharp and well set and close to right hook.Anyone who has worked manufacturing would know the most efficient way to shape bands would be punch then sharpen on a grinder. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

MRowsh

And of course, if one has worked with Germans in Germany knows that how they think and do things is not how we do it here.  They analyze it to the smallest factors/details. For example, my next door neighbor was sending his motor oil sample to the lab every other month to get analyzed!!
I have never done that in my life. That does not make him wrong or make me right either. 
Is it possible that the way they were manufacturing their saw blades got some advantage over punching and then grounding?  Due to my experience with them, I believe them.  Because their track record is good!!
LogMaster LM2 with Kubota V1305 Diesel conversion.
There is a price for everything in life!!!  No free lunches!
Retired US Army.

Bandmill Bandit

I am a pure bred German and was born and raised as German as you can get in Canada. I am proud of my German heritage but more proud to be a Canadian

About 12 years ago My son and I were doing  a major a 4.0 Litre V6 For his Ford ranger. We also did some major mods to the suspension at the same time. We were almost done when we had a couple of bolt on the rear suspension lift kit let go. I asked my son if he had put the tourque wrench on them or had just tight them to refusal with the 3/4 inch impact.

His answer was interesting to say the least. Dad, when you want some thing done right you gota have at least one good German! If you want to have it F$%^(D up right you still need at least one good German.

It kinda has a ring to it dont you think. But we Germans do do things better! 8) Even when we Screw up ;D
   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

MRowsh

LogMaster LM2 with Kubota V1305 Diesel conversion.
There is a price for everything in life!!!  No free lunches!
Retired US Army.

bandmiller2

If anyone is interested on you tube they show WM making and welding bands. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Thank You Sponsors!